Men in Dresses

Sailor Shirt Body Item Level: 1 / Equipment Level: 1

Spring Dress Body Item Level: 1 / Equipment Level: 1
Fits: All ♀

Light Steel Galerus Body Item Level: 1 / Equipment Level: 1

Taffeta Shawl Body Item Level: 1 / Equipment Level: 1

Looks like they will be female only - case closed

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Originally Posted by Conkuur

You know what else makes me uncomfortable,Liars,drug addicts,Drunks,thieves,loud people, mentally deficient deviants,gang bangers,stupid people that think norms and standards aren't necessary in a civilized environment! Discrimination is a good thing since we as humans do it every single day "even you)! So lets all get off the high horse! Your logic is flawed, and reasons ridiculous. Accepting everyone for everything they are is not only illogical it is just stupid to even say.

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I'm just going to pretend you didn't just compare being gay to being a criminal, or an addict, etc. There is a clear difference between maintaining social order and discrimination. Your statement quite frankly makes you look ridiculous.

The (not so) amusing part about all the anti-gay comments, including those such as the one quoted above, is that they are the same bigoted arguments used to support various other forms of discrimination in the past such as racial segregation and denial of women's sufferage. Unfortunately, we're still at the point when many people are willing to consider those statements a valid part of a 'discussion' or 'debate' on LGBT rights. The good news is that it's only a matter of time before those statements will be rightfully considered just as bigoted when said about gay people as they are when said about women or racial minorities today.

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Originally Posted by Shikiseki

Sailor Shirt Body Item Level: 1 / Equipment Level: 1

Spring Dress Body Item Level: 1 / Equipment Level: 1
Fits: All ♀

Light Steel Galerus Body Item Level: 1 / Equipment Level: 1

Taffeta Shawl Body Item Level: 1 / Equipment Level: 1

Looks like they will be female only - case closed

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Ahhhh. No Roe in shoulderless dresses. /sadface

@Mhaeric

I wasn't comparing anything but I'm glad you inferred that yourself which lets me know where you are coming from.An emotionally clouded place. So what are you heterophobic? Because I'm comfortable in my Heterosexuality and feel more comfortable around them? What are blacks that only hang out with blacks? Whiteaphobes?! I don't hate gays I'm pretty much apathetic towards them. My preference however is the company of other heterosexuals but I certainly don't fear gays or treat them differently when dealing with them as human beings. You see you can be civil without actually condoning a persons behaviors, BUT you should also be able to when asked "if guys in dresses bother you?" To be able to say "yes" without being called a hater or intolerant homophobe!! You can't have it both freakin ways! That I HAVE to be tolerant of you but YOU don't have to be tolerant of me and my lifestyle.

If I advertised "white hetero friendly guild" would that be racist or bigoted? Look at yourself, you are a walking hypocrisy lol. I guess if I said "Yeah This is a white hetero guild but we have a gay guy in here" that would make it all inclusive lmao? I don't dislike gay folks, but I dislike folks like you that claim tolerance but have absolutely none for folks that disagree with you. Like I said you have a self entitled sense of flawed illogical reasoning.

Your privilege is showing.

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Originally Posted by Conkuur

If I advertised "white hetero friendly guild" would that be racist or bigoted?

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The questions that should be asked instead are why would someone want to create such a guild? What kind of guild would it be? What purpose would it serve? Now ask these questions about an LGBT guild. These questions draw attention to why a privileged group would not need a group like this, and at the same time highlight why LGBT people would.

One of the main reasons LGBT guilds exist is providing a safe space for LGBT people who need it. Some people are not able to be out in their day to day lives, and these groups are one of the places they can be who they are without consequence. Some people just feel more comfortable knowing they're in a supportive environment, without having to worry if any new members that come along will be the homophobic one that ruins their day. Neither of these are something a straight person would need.

Another way to think about it is that every guild is already a hetero-friendly guild. Straight people don't need a special guild to be accepted, because they always are. Creating a guild for straight people would at best be advertising that privilege, at worst it would be a blatantly bigoted exercise.

It has nothing to do with creating an exclusive club for gay people, with a token straight person or two just to make it look good.

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Originally Posted by Conkuur

I don't dislike gay folks, but I dislike folks like you that claim tolerance but have absolutely none for folks that disagree with you.

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Anyone can disagree all they like, as I have said all along. It's when that disagreement is externalized in a way that negatively impacts someone that it becomes a problem.

Also, no one has to tolerate discrimination. That should not even be considered an option at all. Why would someone have to tolerate being told they're not allowed to do something because they're gay? Again, someone's opinion is not more important than someone's right to equality.

Lol @ that whole conkuur post. He really lacks the most basic human sympathy towards other people. Don't try to reason with someone who just can't think of anyone but himself.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Your privilege is showing.

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I really want to punch you in the face right now, not from any of your ideologies or whatever but just from saying that sentence.

LMAO you have the liberal/progressive talking points handbook out I see. Saul Alinsky would be proud. You can't argue the logic so point at something else. You must surely realize your ignorance. So my job is done here.

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Originally Posted by Heskett

I really want to punch you in the face right now, not from any of your ideologies or whatever but just from saying that sentence.

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Don't sweat it, that is how tolerant they are shining through. Yet I am the one with no basic human sympathy because "I don't want to see men in dresses in a game" lmao.

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Originally Posted by Conkuur

LMAO you have the liberal/progressive talking points handbook out I see. Saul Alinsky would be proud. You can't argue the logic so point at something else. You must surely realize your ignorance. So my job is done here.

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It's merely a concept that you will never understand. Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Conkuur

Don't sweat it, that is how tolerant they are shining through. Yet I am the one with no basic human sympathy because "I don't want to see men in dresses in a game" lmao.

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I was just stating that I think the whole "Check yo privilege" statement is dumb and silly. The same thing I think about you too, really. "Dumb and silly."

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Originally Posted by Conkuur

Don't sweat it, that is how tolerant they are shining through. Yet I am the one with no basic human sympathy because "I don't want to see men in dresses in a game" lmao.

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http://media0.giphy.com/media/Rhhr8D5mKSX7O/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Heskett

I really want to punch you in the face right now, not from any of your ideologies or whatever but just from saying that sentence.

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Gonna have to throw in my 2c and agree with this.

Asian Lesbian here and the phrases "Check your privilege" makes me more annoyed than anyone thinking that what they think of me and mine even matter.

Gotta love the "don't be a hypocrite and call me a bigot just cause I won't tolerate you when you won't tolerate my own belief" statements though. Telling someone they are disgusting or unnatural or unwanted is completely the same as telling someone that those beliefs are not damaging a person's mentally or spiritually.

Oh I guess this is you being tolerant as well lol. You call me names? I don't recall disrespecting you but yet here you are with name calling. I get why though because it takes actual thought to make an actual point.

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Originally Posted by Conkuur

Oh I guess this is you being tolerant as well lol. You call me names? I don't recall disrespecting you but yet here you are with name calling. I get why though because it takes actual thought to make an actual point.

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Everything you've said has been disrespectful. Like I said, you really don't understand anything. Please stop posting.

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Originally Posted by Conkuur

Oh I guess this is you being tolerant as well lol. You call me names? I don't recall disrespecting you but yet here you are with name calling. I get why though because it takes actual thought to make an actual point.

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You keep using word 'tolerance'. I don't think it means what you think it means. Genuinely.

Asking people to be tolerant of intolerant opinions and then claiming they're intolerant if they aren't isn't actually how tolerance works.

Yeah Actually I do know what tolerance means. It means I tolerate you even though we don't see eye to eye. We agree to disagree. I have friends who do some things I absolutely hate like smoking. I am tolerant of it we still hang out but I prefer not to be around the smoke.I prefer they didn't smoke as well. Now I don't go making a big deal about it but if they ask me "If I mind if they smoke" I say "yeah I kinda do" So tell me Parodine what you think it means?

Nothing is more disrespectful than name calling Haskett sorry. Yet you did say you wanted to "punch someone in the face" so I guess that could be worse and also a crime.

Wow all of this backlash over a dress.

Although, I do understand that it's far more than that. It's personal opinions of social structural ideologies of gender roles and identities.

Most of everyone has missed the point completely. Gender identity is not a "way of life" or a "feeling" it's an integral part of who you are. Yes it's fabricated by your surroundings, but it's a vital part of your life.

Everyone is entitled to their personal opinions about anything. That's fair, what isn't, is actively discriminating towards something you don't like. Depending on the issue of course, oppressor vs oppressed.

Just banning everything you don't like isn't the way to go. Even though I do understand that being open minded and subjective isn't always easy.

Just think about a crucial part of your being, culture, amorous affectionate preference, your gender role. Would you like it to become belittled and trivial?

I'm so sad! ;0; All I ever wanted was to wear a cute dress. WHY YOSHI, WHY U DO THIS 2 ME.

I'm going to borrow Jalen Rose's line of "Don't Get Fired." Thanks to a 1989 U.S. Supreme Court case Price Waterhouse v. Hopkins, courts recognize a cause of action under Title VII for discrimination based on failure to conform to gender stereotypes. See, e. g., Medina v. Income Support Div., 413 F.3d 1131, 1135 (10th Cir. 2005); Nichols v. Azteca Rest. Enters., Inc., 256 F.3d 864, 874-75 (9th Cir. 2001) (harassment "based upon the perception that [the plaintiff] is effeminate" is discrimination because of sex);

Whatever happens on the Internet may or not stay on the Internet, just be careful and don't get fired. :p

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Originally Posted by Roukiz

I'm so sad! ;0; All I ever wanted was to wear a cute dress. WHY YOSHI, WHY U DO THIS 2 ME.

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i'm fine with guys wearing dresses if they want to. Or robes. Or kilts. Or long skirts. Or pants. Or leggings.
Also true for girls. Which is probably just as well since i know many of both who do all of the above.
But please try to wear something that looks nice and fits well whatever it is. :3
Which is highly subjective, i concede, but i try to be fair.
Ugly clothing is a matter of fit and design.
The wearer's gender is irrelevant.
My .02...

Sorry I don't agree like I said before, if he wanted to wear a dress then he should of chose a female character.

Devs have the right to say no like everyone else does, I find it funny that people want to be accepted and they are but when someone says to them No they can't accept that and throw a huge tantrum like a little kid who begs for candy and doesn't get what they want and kicks and screams on the floor.

It has nothing to do with discrimination or that they are against gays or cross dressers, they just don't allow it in their game and you need to accept that if you believe in equal rights simple as that. because if you don't then your equal rights crap you talk about is a lie how can it be equal if you get everything you wanted and others do not serious.

This is a silly topic... it's silly because if you feel threatened or uncomfortable with males in a video game wearing dresses, but conveniently ignore that many of the female characters are men in real life then you have more issues than Time Magazine.

my answer to you apollo if you directed that at me is below.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

This is a silly topic... it's silly because if you feel threatened or uncomfortable with males in a video game wearing dresses, but conveniently ignore that many of the female characters are men in real life then you have more issues than Time Magazine.

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also I think you're the one who has issues, why can't you accept that we don't wanna see it? Nope its gotta be a grand scheme or something diabolical it cant be just normal that we don't wanna see it nooo its the work of the devil himself.

that my friend is a issue.

some people take video games way to seriously lol

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

also I think you're the one who has issues, why can't you accept that we don't wanna see it? Nope its gotta be a grand scheme or something diabolical it cant be just normal that we don't wanna see it nooo its the work of the devil himself.

that my friend is a issue.

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Normal?? You're version of 'normal' died many, many years ago.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

This is a silly topic... it's silly because if you feel threatened or uncomfortable with males in a video game wearing dresses, but conveniently ignore that many of the female characters are men in real life then you have more issues than Time Magazine.

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Yeah I find this ironic.
Its ok for a guy to play a girl character (which many guys do, for various legitimate reasons) and dress it as frilly as they want,
But if a legitimate guy wants to to wear dresses (which I would think is the same as making a girl character in a sense) suddenly there's a huge problem... o_O

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Originally Posted by Venos

Normal?? You're version of 'normal' died many, many years ago.

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Its "your"
Also its not just my version, its other peoples versions and SE's version as well all I can do is give you a picture.

http://i.imgur.com/CupiM.gif

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

Its "your"
Also its not just my version, its other peoples versions and SE's version as well all I can do is give you a picture.

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Oh the twelve, I typoed..

Yeah, I knew you sounded like one of the members from the KKK.

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

also I think you're the one who has issues, why can't you accept that we don't wanna see it? Nope its gotta be a grand scheme or something diabolical it cant be just normal that we don't wanna see it nooo its the work of the devil himself.

that my friend is a issue.

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I have no problem that you don't want to see it. What you want or I want is really not the issue. The issue is that you want to restrict other people's options based on what you want to see them wear.... that seems a bit absurd to me. I prefer not to see most bard outfits, but I'm not going to ask them to ban bards.

If they could make some kind of filter, so that you could turn on gender based models, fine. I fully support you being able to live in your bubble- I just don't like the idea of forcing a narrow view onto others- whether that view is mine or someone else's.

When they allow people to play whatever gender they want... and have half naked kitten people and childlike races running around... I just have to shake my head at someone trying to claim forcing conformity to an idea of "normal".... I find a LOT in this game to be VERY fetish driven.

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

also I think you're the one who has issues, why can't you accept that we don't wanna see it? Nope its gotta be a grand scheme or something diabolical it cant be just normal that we don't wanna see it nooo its the work of the devil himself.

that my friend is a issue.

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Hey, guess what? Not accepting your intolerance does not make me intolerant. You not wanting to see a male character in a dress should not strip those of the choice to freely express themselves.

I personally do not care about wearing a dress on my male character, but I think everyone should have the freedom to if that is what they desire.

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Originally Posted by Odett

Hey, guess what? Not accepting your intolerance does not make me intolerant. You not wanting to see a male character in a dress should not strip those of the choice to freely express themselves.

I personally do not care about wearing a dress on my male character, but I think everyone should have the freedom to if that is what they desire.

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I am not personally interested in wearing dresses... but this very "localized" idea of "normal" has led me to believe that there is a greater chance of some kind of sensual tentacle creature showing up in game before I can even create an anatomically representative male character, instead of a Ken Doll.

Good lord, this thread is still active? Can't we find something more interesting to argue about? I think too many of you are imprinting yourselves on a video game character. Move on.

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Originally Posted by Eggnook24

Good lord, this thread is still active? Can't we find something more interesting to argue about? I think too many of you are imprinting yourselves on a video game character. Move on.

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I find these kinds of posts rather strange because by choosing to not add anything worthwhile to a discussion, your post only serves to make this thread bigger with its null message.

This issue is important to people, maybe not to you and many others, but what you deem as unimportant does not diminish its value to the ones it matters to. Telling others to move on about a subject you personally don't care about is pretty rude. At the very least, let's be courteous.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I am not personally interested in wearing dresses... but this very "localized" idea of "normal" has led me to believe that there is a greater chance of some kind of sensual tentacle creature showing up in game before I can even create an anatomically representative male character, instead of a Ken Doll.

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Yeah, we have to remember that this game takes place in a medieval setting, which included elves, cat people, and magi-technology. We can't possibly break immersion by giving male characters the option to wear a dress.

On a completely unrelated and joking note, I am not opposed to the idea of playing a sensual soulflayer

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

Sorry I don't agree like I said before, if he wanted to wear a dress then he should of chose a female character.

Devs have the right to say no like everyone else does, I find it funny that people want to be accepted and they are but when someone says to them No they can't accept that and throw a huge tantrum like a little kid who begs for candy and doesn't get what they want and kicks and screams on the floor.

It has nothing to do with discrimination or that they are against gays or cross dressers, they just don't allow it in their game and you need to accept that if you believe in equal rights simple as that. because if you don't then your equal rights crap you talk about is a lie how can it be equal if you get everything you wanted and others do not serious.

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Claiming that it's not equal because you don't get your way when it comes to being able to discriminate against someone is not a sound principle to base your argument on. Equal rights does not mean everyone gets everything their way all the time. It means everyone has the freedom to live as who they are openly without discrimination, with full access to the same rights that every one else has access to. Disallowing someone to be able to do something because of who they are or disallowing because it's not something you agree with is not such a right. It's not a right of any kind at all, in fact. People have a right to think that something is not right, and even express that belief, but they don't have a right to actually make those thoughts a reality that disenfranchises others of actual rights.

Your statement that LGBT people want to get everything their way is also false, and shows your bias. We don't want everything to go our way all the time. We just want to be able to do everything that the majority is able to do in the manner that makes sense for us and be able to do it without facing discrimination.

For example, straight people can get married to each other in real life and in games with no questions asked, but gay people are denied being able to marry each other in both arenas on a daily basis. And even those who are able to be married continuously deal with people reacting poorly to their use of terms such as 'my husband' and 'my wife' to describe their significant others such as denying them services when they find out they are a same-sex couple. And more to the point of this thread, straight and cis people are able to dress in ways that match their identity without anyone batting an eyelash. But trans and gender-queer people have to deal with hostile stares and comments on a daily basis simply because their clothing and gender expression does not conform to what most people perceive as normal. And the number of trans people who are fired every year because of beginning their transition is staggering.

All we are asking for is that we be allowed to do these things in the first place and without being treated as less than when we are allowed to do them. None of this prevents others from being allowed to do these same things in a way consistent with their own identity. Us gaining our rights does not diminish your rights. It's not a zero sum equation. It's a boundless pool of equality. It is specifically for this reason that I know history will be on our side, and not those who wish to limit the rights of LGBT people.

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Originally Posted by Odett

On a completely unrelated and joking note, I am not opposed to the idea of playing a sensual soulflayer

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Well, you could run Tam-Tara Deepcroft and when you get to the boss turn off the game's sound and pipe some Barry White through your headphones to get this effect... ;)

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

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Okay answer this does a preacher have the right to say no to same sex marriage? simple question.

Then my second question does Square Enix have the right to say No to the dresses?

Do I have a right to my opinion or does your opinion the only one that matters, that's where you guys just don't get it.

Its Square Enix's world and in their world guys don't wear dresses who cares if bard wears pink ever hear of fight against cancer people wear pink all the time for it.

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Originally Posted by Odett

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Sure they have the right to do what they want freely just not in this game, it cannot go one way 1 half says NO and of course the other half says yes.

Either way we will never see eye to eye and that's why it will never happen because of what I just said me which my way life goes on but your guys way you'll complain and call people names and tell SE they are heartless and that's what I meant about forcing the hand to get what you want even if you have to step on the ones who don't wanna see it. I don't care if you are gay have fun with that its not a issue but when you cant accept something I don't wanna see but I can accept you are gay I find it messed up.

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

also I think you're the one who has issues, why can't you accept that we don't wanna see it? Nope its gotta be a grand scheme or something diabolical it cant be just normal that we don't wanna see it nooo its the work of the devil himself.

that my friend is a issue.

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I didn't want to see jumping.
I didn't want to see glowing weapons.
I didn't want to see ridiculous Primal weapons.
I didn't want to see the new tutu armor.
Hell I'm not even big on seeing guys in frills and skirts.

But in the end it's no business of mine what other people choose to wear. What right do we have to enforce that kind of authority on others?