Some surprising data in regards to SMN dps vs BLM dps

If the class with high ramp up DPS and crap target switching capacity due to lack of burst cannot do more long term sustained damage than the class with frontloaded damage and frontloaded aoe, there is a problem.

The BLM is suffering from quality of life changes. But if the black mage can do the same damage as summoner, but all in burst and without 7.5 seconds of setup to do full DPS per target switch, then we have a problem. Nobody will bring summoners if they don't have a perk over the burst classes. Steady, sustained damage classes should always outDPS burst damage classes. Not that much, but enough to justify bringing them.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

If the class with high ramp up DPS and crap target switching capacity due to lack of burst cannot do more long term sustained damage than the class with frontloaded damage and frontloaded aoe, there is a problem.

The BLM is suffering from quality of life changes. But if the black mage can do the same damage as summoner, but all in burst and without 7.5 seconds of setup to do full DPS per target switch, then we have a problem. Nobody will bring summoners if they don't have a perk over the burst classes. Steady, sustained damage classes should always outDPS burst damage classes. Not that much, but enough to justify bringing them.

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Fully agree. BUT, summoner's aoe is not that bad at all, if it's able to use bane.

Anyway, summ is fine as it is. BMage should be looked at though. Its mechanics are poorly designed and cause quite a bit of problems during fights. Problems that feel more like bugs, rather than anything else.

the only similar thing about aetherflow and lifetap is that it gives mana, well lots of MMOs have spells that gives back mana, it doesn't mean that it's "ridiculously similar to lifetap", lifetap is spammable, aetheroflow is not, lifetap gives mana in exchange of hp, aethrflow doesn't do that, aethrflow gives 3 charges of aetherflow, lifetap doesn't.

//DS deals more damage the more dots are active. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough.//

haunt is from WoW, DS = (I'm assuming demon soul?) is from WoW as well. you compared haunt to fester, and both of this spells(haunt and fester) are way way different.

My SCH DoTs tick for about 530 with Shadow Flare + Cleric Stance. That's 176 DPS. Not surprised that you see those numbers on a SMN who actually keeps their dots up.

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Originally Posted by Calibix

This thread just sounds like a bunch of people making excuses. Yeah ff14 app isn't perfect, but if you actually take the time to test it yourself, you'll find its fairly reliable. It's already been updated enough to make it somewhat reliable. It still doesn't track Shadowflare, which any good summoner knows is a big chunk of dmg. Also, it doesn't read the logs persay like a traditional parser, its actually attaching itself so that's the reason it can track the dots at all...

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FFXIV App being fairly reliable in judging Summoner DPS is flat out wrong. I gave a reason earlier why this is so, but you people harping on about the damn parser being "oh so reliable!" are plugging your ears and saying, "LALALALA I can't hear you!". In case everyone missed it, I'll repost why the FFXIV App Parser is unreliable.

Using Bio + Fester while Bio II is up will cause BIO DoTs being tracked as hitting as HARD as Fester. This is the reason why you see ilvl 60 Summoner out parsing people in ilvl 90. We've tested this quite extensively and can reliably recreate the bug in the FFXIV App Parser. Again, when the parser tracks Bio ticks for hitting 400+ damage per tick, it vastly skews the information on the parser itself. You simply cannot use the FFXIV App parser as an accurate measuring stick as to why Summoner DPS is as high as it is in it's current state.

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Originally Posted by savant07

I think if you are testing solo against dummy without anyone else attacking the dummy, it is pretty accurate.

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No it isn't. It's not even close.

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Originally Posted by Thotor

Please do not use FFXIV-app for anything DoT related.
If you want a real parse, take LogRep.

This is a near perfect kill on turn 2 (with magical resist buff) : http://snag.gy/gVfJU.jpg (only look at Total Damage. DPS value is incorrect)
BLM is ahead by 4k dmg despise loosing dps due to being forced to move with Allagan Rot

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No even that program is seriously off on dot damage. Neither dps parser is remotely close to accurately simulating dot damage.

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Originally Posted by Youmu

Parsers are not 100% accurate, but against single mobs in a straight DPS test, with no party interference, they do work. The issue with their innaccuracy comes from its use within a party with 2 or more of the same class

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Inaccurate even solo.

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Originally Posted by Aronos

I see people saying this repeatedly, but what evidence do you have? Are parsers 100% correct? Perhaps not. But to simply say that it's impossible for SMN to out dps BLM because BLM sometimes crits huge and it's hard to believe they're second to SMN dps is hard to believe. I'm disappointed by this fact but facts are facts. If parsers are inaccurate for SMN dps, who's to say it's not inaccurate for BLM? When dots tick for 290+ damage as I watch them in game, it's not hard to believe that spamming ruin, and my pet dps would make it far superior to BLM even with a weapon 30 ilvls lower.

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So you see dot ticks for 290 that's fine. Now divide that by 3 seconds and that's 97dps. Now add your pet with 55dps. We're at 145dps. Now add your non dots. This isn't anywhere near 321dps.

The ffxivapp parser's problem is mainly with Bio II. Every time you hit Fester it increases Bio II's damage. Testing on a dummy atm and my Bio II damage is at 1,056%. I'm hitting for 39 damage a tick and the parser says i'm hitting for 412 damage a tick. This happens every time you hit Fester after front loading all your dots for max fester damage. You then follow up with a Bio II and watch for the inflated BIO II dot ticks according to the parser. This lasts the 30 second duration of the dot time. Given that we can hit Fester 3 times every 60 seconds this pretty much ensures your Bio II dot tick damage according to the parser will be highly inflated.

Now i'm only level 37 atm. So it may not be quite as bad at 50. Until i get to 50 and verify i can't say for sure if it behaves exactly the same at 50. But as it's just basic math i'd say they programed that dot incorrectly and that it will perform close to the same at 50. I'd suggest someone else test this out who is 50 to verify my results.

If the above does perform the same or even half as badly this is still a huge amount that this parser is off by.

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

FFXIV App being fairly reliable in judging Summoner DPS is flat out wrong. I gave a reason earlier why this is so, but you people harping on about the damn parser being "oh so reliable!" are plugging your ears and saying, "LALALALA I can't hear you!". In case everyone missed it, I'll repost why the FFXIV App Parser is unreliable.

Using Bio + Fester while Bio II is up will cause BIO DoTs being tracked as hitting as HARD as Fester. This is the reason why you see ilvl 60 Summoner out parsing people in ilvl 90. We've tested this quite extensively and can reliably recreate the bug in the FFXIV App Parser. Again, when the parser tracks Bio ticks for hitting 400+ damage per tick, it vastly skews the information on the parser itself. You simply cannot use the FFXIV App parser as an accurate measuring stick as to why Summoner DPS is as high as it is in it's current state.

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Good confirmation there dude. Much appreciated.

I can confirm that this is indeed the same thing that happens at 50.

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Originally Posted by Furio

Fully agree. BUT, summoner's aoe is not that bad at all, if it's able to use bane.

Anyway, summ is fine as it is. BMage should be looked at though. Its mechanics are poorly designed and cause quite a bit of problems during fights. Problems that feel more like bugs, rather than anything else.

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Bane is only good in encounters where the adds spawn at the same place and where they have larger healthpools. It's still bad if the adds die in a couple of AoE bursts from melee/bards/BLM.

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Originally Posted by glim

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Why do you quote "ridiculously similar to lifetap" when I never said that? Why are you being butthurt about 1 single ability when the whole freaking class is a carbon copy and anyone denying that is either ignorant, or blatantly 'white knight-ing'.

I even left out Energy Drain and Aetherflow. Hey, what a coincidence! The warlock archetype that is FFXIV's Summoner, also has a spell that works like WoW's Drain Life: Energy Drain! How about Aetherflow? 3 stacks usable for special abilities? Hmmm, feels a bit too similar to soul shards doesn't it? 3 stacks usable for special abilities as well.

DS = Drain soul. Drain soul does X damage per dot on your target. If you really can't see it you don't want to see. And next time you feel like replying, why don't you use all examples given rather than picking one, ripping it out of context and placing it between quotes suggesting I said something I didn't. Nitwit.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

Bane is only good in encounters where the adds spawn at the same place and where they have larger healthpools. It's still bad if the adds die in a couple of AoE bursts from melee/bards/BLM.

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Very true. If you have 2 blms using flare on garuda's plumes, bane isn't going to be helping much. If you don't it actually works amazingly well.

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

Using Bio + Fester while Bio II is up will cause BIO DoTs being tracked as hitting as HARD as Fester.

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I used the in-battle log to keep track of total damage done on an ifrit hard fight. I calculated the DPS and it was the exact same damage and DPS (give or take a hundreth) ffxiv-app showed. Seems pretty accurate to me. Maybe you were using an out-dated version?