FFXIVARR Lower stats for token items

the main gripe over the last 2 years is people wanted to feel they are making progress towards the stuff they wanted items weapons etc.

if the tokens are only used for lesser gears then there's still no progress towards what people want. you could have 100 tokens and you'd still be no closer to that main piece of armor you wanted 100 runs ago.

and it's likely that if you have say 4/5 pieces on a particular set you could see the 4 pieces you already have dropping over and over again and never see the one piece you actually need drop. thus even with guaranteed drops it could quite easily be the same stuff time after time after time.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Amazing how they take a simple idea, and turn it into an overly complicated poor idea. Who settles for second best?

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Offering the main drops for tokens is the best way. you go to av for your corselet you don't get it but you get a token so at least you know that no matter what in x number of wins you will have it. keeps you motivated. knowing that each time you're a little bit closer to your goal.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Let's not create further elitism by having two sets of stats for gear. Just do it like Garuda, same stats same item. Getting the gear right now often has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with luck. Someone could do 100 AV speed runs and have crazy gear/skill and never see a Corselet. Someone could join in their first AV speed run and get lucky and get a Corselet. At least reward people for persistence with the same gear.

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You mean like NQ and HQ which is an rpg staple across the board? It won't cause any sort of elitism if SE can successfully walk the fine line between having a good reward for people who do not want to run the dungeon for 3 months to get one drop and having a great reward for people that do. As long as there is only like a 10-15% difference in bonus stats on the actual armors themselves it will be enough to keep the more casual players satisfied while giving the hardcore players something to shoot for.

So much QQing over potentially nothing.

For all we know, the 'lesser' gear you get could be just a stat point or two behind the normal gear.

We also have no idea at all the amount of tokens needed to trade for the 'lesser' gear, the drop rate of the Darklight type gear, or the cooldown to enter a dungeon.

Four critical parts to this equation are unknown and people are already complaining abut the assumed result???

What is there to complain about? Rampant and wild speculation is the best we can do at this point.

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Originally Posted by Req

You mean like NQ and HQ which is an rpg staple across the board? It won't cause any sort of elitism if SE can successfully walk the fine line between having a good reward for people who do not want to run the dungeon for 3 months to get one drop and having a great reward for people that do. As long as there is only like a 10-15% difference in bonus stats on the actual armors themselves it will be enough to keep the more casual players satisfied while giving the hardcore players something to shoot for.

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Its not casual vs hardcore as much as it is getting that random on one of the 3 items or a group of friends that will let you get that item.

The lesser gear idea is bad. The only thing I can think of that Yoshi wants to do this is because maybe the cost is so low on tokens that in a run or two you can buy the lesser version (means each run you could get a piece). In which case I say cool but let us buy a more expensive token item that is the full version.

Lite Armor:
2 tokens

Full Armor:
10 tokens

I thought WoW's loot system worked well enough. There were guaranteed item drops and everyone was rewarded badges (tokens) for beating the fight. The tokens could be used to buy the items needed to trade in for the class equipment or equipment for different equipment slots that were unique and didn't drop from any of the dungeons.

I think I'd prefer to see it work this way rather than offering people lesser quality gear, but this would probably also pigeon-hole the dungeons into having longer retry timers. If there were no timers, hardcores will run dungeons for 12 hours a day and be geared up within a matter of weeks and then complain about being bored. (I have nothing against hardcores or how fast they gear up by the way, I'm just making a general statement as to why timers would have to be in effect)

when did MMORPG players get such a sense of entitlement just for showing up

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Originally Posted by RoosterAgathos

when did MMORPG players get such a sense of entitlement just for showing up

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I'm not asking for that. I'll deal with what-ever system they throw at me. If it's not the best, then I don't want it. It's that simple, and always will be. The entire system was supposed to be designed to feel a sense of progress if you're unlucky. So my reward is a token for an item that isn't as good? Hooray, no advancement what-so-ever.

If they wanted me to obtain 200 tokens for a Darklight Curiass. At least I know in 200 runs I would have a Curiass (I have one already, this is an example). Now I may need to run 30 times for a GimpCuriass with -20% stats for all we know. Those 30 runs mean nothing. I could have used those to obtain the real armor if I was unlucky.

If they implement both systems i'm fine with that. People have other obligations, and don't have enough time. I understand, but I do not want to be given a token for an item that is not up to par with the real drop. To me this system they have in mind if designed purely for those with not enough time, while people who have the time still have to put up with RNG/Timers.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Its not casual vs hardcore as much as it is getting that random on one of the 3 items or a group of friends that will let you get that item.

The lesser gear idea is bad. The only thing I can think of that Yoshi wants to do this is because maybe the cost is so low on tokens that in a run or two you can buy the lesser version (means each run you could get a piece). In which case I say cool but let us buy a more expensive token item that is the full version.

Lite Armor:
2 tokens

Full Armor:
10 tokens

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You guys seem to be forgetting the one important thing. If you use tokens to get the best gear from content then no one will do the content anymore. Look at what happened with Garuda. There is more to designing a game than just giving the players everything they want, especially an mmo where you have to account for the time it will take you to develop the next set of content. You have to design it in a way that rewards them but keeps them coming back for an extended period of time. If its all tokenized then that means that sooner rather than later you are going to end up with everyone having all the gear, getting bored, and not playing anymore which will kill the game.

The only way to balance it correctly in the case of tokenized gear is to either
A: Put an obscene lockout time on the amount of tokens you can get during a specific time frame so players won't be able to accumulate mass amounts in the initial burn sessions right after a piece of content is release

OR

B: Put the token cost high enough that it keeps the players spamming the dungeons constantly to work towards their goal of getting a piece of gear.

Do either of those sound optimal to you?

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

I'm not asking for that. I'll deal with what-ever system they throw at me. If it's not the best, then I don't want it. It's that simple, and always will be. The entire system was supposed to be designed to feel a sense of progress if you're unlucky. So my reward is a token for an item that isn't as good? Hooray, no advancement what-so-ever.

If they wanted me to obtain 200 tokens for a Darklight Curiass. At least I know in 200 runs I would have a Curiass (I have one already, this is an example). Now I may need to run 30 times for a GimpCuriass with -20% stats for all we know. Those 30 runs mean nothing. I could have used those to obtain the real armor if I was unlucky.

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At what point do we say enough is enough? If i attempt a quad meld 10 times and fail.. should i be granted a scroll of instant quad meld because of the expense, time and effort put in for the previous 10 melds? SE developers have made many avenues for getting gear equivalent or better then DL/raid drops. I just think people have their hands out far too much

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

I'm not asking for that. I'll deal with what-ever system they throw at me. If it's not the best, then I don't want it. It's that simple, and always will be. The entire system was supposed to be designed to feel a sense of progress if you're unlucky. So my reward is a token for an item that isn't as good? Hooray, no advancement what-so-ever.

If they wanted me to obtain 200 tokens for a Darklight Curiass. At least I know in 200 runs I would have a Curiass (I have one already, this is an example). Now I may need to run 30 times for a GimpCuriass with -20% stats for all we know. Those 30 runs mean nothing. I could have used those to obtain the real armor if I was unlucky.

If they implement both systems i'm fine with that. People have other obligations, and don't have enough time. I understand, but I do not want to be given a token for an item that is not up to par with the real drop.

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Perfectly said Zezlar. The fact is if it looks like shit, smells like shit, it is shit and thats exactly what this system is period!!