If someone makes a deadly boss mods type addon for ARR would you use it?

People rely on add-ons because DEVs allow them. No one cares about having an easy win only. Getting gear is fun... up to one point. It's not as if people would be flying through content just because they have add-ons. It doesn't do the fight for you.

As for raiding guilds forcing you to have add-ons, why did you join in the first place if you don't agree with the policy :/ I mean you have guilds out there that play casually without "forcing" their members to use addons, read guides, and so on...

If the battle log is easier to read and alot more customizeable than the current one, and lag wasn't terribad, then I wouldn't see the need for a DBM-like addon for myself. I'd LOVE one for right now, though. They could make it account for the lag, like some addons for WoW which would show you the part of your cast bar that is just lag so you can know exactly when you can start moving near the end of your cast and have it go off lol... But yeah, if that won't be an issue in ARR then there's no point.

I gotta ask, what's the functional difference between having DBM and having one or several 'raid leads' yell at you over vent about what you're supposed to be doing?

Personally if they are making content around the need to have stuff like DBM for people to compete your doing something wrong with the design of your battle.

But what do I know I've never designed a multi-million selling game nor will I ever. I just personally don't see how it's productive to keep making fights more and more complicated to the point where players require outside assistance to even complete it.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Personally if they are making content around the need to have stuff like DBM for people to compete your doing something wrong with the design of your battle.

But what do I know I've never designed a multi-million selling game nor will I ever. I just personally don't see how it's productive to keep making fights more and more complicated to the point where players require outside assistance to even complete it.

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And that is why you make both, or multiple tiers of difficulty. That is what WOW did to gain its success, and that is what Yoshi said he'd be doing come ARR.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

And that is why you make both, or multiple tiers of difficulty. That is what WOW did to gain its success, and that is what Yoshi said he'd be doing come ARR.

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But what is the point of making a fight so complex that it's unbeatable with the tools the game itself provides? It sounds counter intuative to me.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

But what is the point of making a fight so complex that it's unbeatable with the tools the game itself provides? It sounds counter intuative to me.

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An API for addons is a tool that the game provides.

Besides, wasn't FFXI full of fights that were actually impossible?

People who will use everything they can to prevent failures will use it.

Thats... actually a lot of people.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

XIV-only players never raided. So it's not obvious for people in here :p

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The point of wanting to get things done efficiently still stands in XIV, even more so because of the retarded way loot drops are designed. Would you rather do 500 15 min dungeon runs or 500 45 minute ones? I know the answer most would pick. Is that being lazy? Nope, that's making efficient use of your time.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

People rely on add-ons as a crutch because they want the win to be as easy as possible, with as little personal effort as possible. They are not ever necessary.

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You can't really blame the player, blame the games design. Like mentioned above alot of WoW's raid game was designed with the mods in mind. I'm not a huge advocate of covering your entire screen with mods so that you're basically playing whack-a-mole, but lumping everyone together as lazy or incompetent because the game itself requires you to use them to progress is pointless. WoW is pretty much the only game I raided where mod's were an essential requirement.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Except that those mods and addons (and so on) are mandatory by many raiding guilds for even the first attempt up to and including the win. It's not a "farm status" thing. It's a " first attempt and every one after" situation.

I've been in several such guilds and have known people in many more such guilds. I have never known of a guild who only used them for farming the raids.

I quite clearly remember being told that, without exception, everyone *had* to have a specific list of add-ons installed for the first attempt of a raid, else they didn't go. In one guild you had to post a screenshot to prove you had the "required setup". Everyone was also required to read the strategy and have it open on their computer or on a hand-held if possible.

I've been around the MMO block a few too many times to believe it's "farming only".

People rely on add-ons as a crutch because they want the win to be as easy as possible, with as little personal effort as possible. They are not ever necessary.

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If you've been around the block a few times, then you know this is "par for the course" in a raiding guild. While it's a bit more extreme than most (most would simply use tools within the specific addon to see who is running it and whose version is out of date. Screenshots are a bit excessive), you knowingly signed up for it. If you prefer to be a purist, create your own guild that does the opposite. Just realize you're going to be ridiculed if you attempt to throw out the "l3373r than thou" attitude among bleeding edge raiders.

By the way, I'd love to hear your vent/mumble during a boss attempt. Apparently it would be silent as a lamb with all the pro players. If it's like any normal ls, it's full of "Holy fuck move", "That's bullshit, I totally moved", "Argh, I herped, sorry", and "DEAR GOD WHY AREN'T YOU MOVING OUT OF THE WAY". All DBM does is save the raid leader's voice during progression attempts, or rather, reduce the strain (from personal experience, there will always be "that guy" who will do the exact opposite of his role in a fight, no matter what.... from here to eternity).