Will 8.0 Expansion Cap @ L55 ?

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Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora

I would ragequit if we got talent trees.

They're nothing but toxic BiS nonsense and I quit WoW over it. When I was forced to switch from DPS to Tank in Death Knight many moons ago, I stopped playing.

But honestly I don't think Yoshi P wants them, otherwise we'd have shared classes for our jobs (beyond Arcanist) and so far Yoshi P has never seemed to be interested in that.

I think we're honestly safe from talent trees.

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I doubt in this. Considering DK is always a solid dps in every expansion, I highly doubt it. What more happened is that your raid needed someone to tank and they had no one else but you since you already had proper gear kek. But yeah.

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Originally Posted by MayuAmakura

I doubt in this. Considering DK is always a solid dps in every expansion, I highly doubt it. What more happened is that your raid needed someone to tank and they had no one else but you since you already had proper gear kek. But yeah.

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Weird bait but okay.

It was Cataclysm, they removed the DPS option and made it all tank. That's when I quit. Raid groups weren't even running when the expansion dropped, it was solid in WotLK.

You're probably just mad that XIV doesn't have talent trees. Calm down. You can still play WoW.

Ruling out talent trees because of balance concerns is not that different an argument from deciding we should only have 1 job per role because otherwise people will create metas where some jobs get excluded; we already have that despite how homogenized the current jobs have become. If done well, talent trees or whatever build system could provide players with ways to experience older job playstyles, or play a job in a completely different role (BRD as a healer or DRK as a DPS come to mind), or otherwise bring back older themes with twists. If I had the chance to play an "Elementalist" WHM that brought back Stone, Aero, and Water spells, I'd want to give that a go. Hell, I'd play SCH again in a heartbeat if I could have Miasma, Miasma II and Bane back as potential options. Even if the only thing you ended up allowing the player to change is the filler rotation and what kind of utility you could bring, that can still be a good amount of player expression that wouldn't be too difficult to balance.

That said, while I like the idea of the talent trees, it would only be in the context of a different job design ethos than what we have now. Rework the jobs to actually be engaging, make the stats that aren't Crit more worthwhile, and even just deciding you want to play a Speed / Piety WHM over a Crit WHM is enough player expression for me. I would only want talent trees if they could legitimately offer new playstyles and/or allow for jobs to change roles.

Honestly not too fussed, as long as it's not something obviously class locking like re-introducing job based striking/piercing/blunt/whatever debuffs we used to have. That specific aspect of Stormblood will always haunt me.

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Originally Posted by Valor_C

That's not a bad idea in itself, but there will be one meta build for every job, and people will be excluded from endgame raid content, or maybe even other content when they don't play that one meta build, which then makes the whole thing irrelevant and a waste of resources.
That maybe works in other games, but I don't trust the FFXIV devs to design it in such a way that there won't be that one proper meta build.

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Look at bluemage, a lot of different skills which let you customize your build how you want, but good luck in finding groups for bluemage endgame content when you don't play with a certain build.

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As someone who will, in fact, exclude players who deliberately play in a way that, well, drags everyone else down, this is exactly why I wouldn't want this sort of change. Having to weed out people in PF would become more annoying and the blocklist limit is way too low for that.

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

As someone who will, in fact, exclude players who deliberately play in a way that, well, drags everyone else down, this is exactly why I wouldn't want this sort of change. Having to weed out people in PF would become more annoying and the blocklist limit is way too low for that.

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Exactly this.

If talent trees offered something like raising from the dead or ailment removal or something non-dps that would simply be beneficial to have instead of min-maxing, I'd be for it. But we all know that's not what we're talking about here.

My understanding was the 6.0 stat squish was done due to technical issues. Maybe not squished enough since we're hitting nearly ShB values already. Squishing level number is meaningless, it's not like you need to do your roulettes to get through MSQ, in fact you end up overleveled. The kinds of issues people are talking about here are unfortunately baked into the game, not only in its past content but in the prevailing formula. You gotta do more MSQ fetch quests every couple months to keep up with content and that is simply what FFXIV is, take it or leave it. I don't really see a clear "solution" here. I was interested in the story back in HW but have since become a serial cutscene skipper because that's not the content I play the game for. When a new expansion comes out, I skip everything to finish it as quickly as possible, and if I want to see the story I'll watch it on my alt. It's a lot easier to play that way as the expansions release though, I imagine trying to engage with the game like that starting from EW on would be intolerable.

And to be clear, content pre-level 100 does in fact suck. Not because the MSQ cutscenes or fights aren't good, but because the jobs are terminally boring to play. This is something they need to address imminently, having to progress at least a couple hundred hours to 7.0 to play your job as intended is intolerable and insane. People aren't even happy with how the jobs play once you get there. That is the first thing that needs to be addressed, followed by some more ARR streamlining and maybe a different approach to post-expansion update MSQ requirements.

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Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora

Yoshi P said that something drastic must happen to not endure level bloat.

So will we see all of our levels halved, and the cap reduce from 100 down to L50, giving 5 levels per expansion?

I think this is the most logical and easiest way to reduce the hefty load of 110 levels. Unless they're coming up with a whole new leveling system, which a lot of people seem to be against (Eureka leveling, for example).

Are we crunching our levels into halves at this point?

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Short answer: Look to what they did to FF11 for levels 99+ since alot of the people who work on FF14 came from that game.

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

Short answer: Look to what they did to FF11 for levels 99+ since alot of the people who work on FF14 came from that game.

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I had Google explain this one to me as I quit by Chains of Promathia.

Sounds like an interesting system, merit points and job points could work. Was the system viewed favorably amongst the community?

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Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora

I had Google explain this one to me as I quit by Chains of Promathia.

Sounds like an interesting system, merit points and job points could work. Was the system viewed favorably amongst the community?

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It was and still is to some degree. But you have to remember, that the balance in FF11 is very different to FF14. Since SE seems to be more focused on the two minute CD system as a example, it would not shock me if they also do a dumb down variant of this as well.