Picto painting potency should be readjusted

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

No thats really bad actually. If someone wants to main picto it should be performing well in all situations otherwise just main blm or rdm because they perform well in full uptime AND downtime fights. My favorite caster right now is picto and i felt "forced" to switch to blm just because picto sucks in 90% of the fights. The small downtimes dont really give picto an edge either. It is doing a little bit less damage than rdm in fights with micro downtimes, so in "actual" full uptime fights it would be doing damage like smn.
This game has more and more problems with potencies being too high warping the damage profiles too much.
If this continues every high potency move is forced to get the "always dh crits" treatment in the future.

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That's IMO a very sad attitude to take, but fair enough.

I'd much rather have classes be meaningfully different, and have their own little niches and upsides and downsides. So Picto is the king of the caster DPS in fights where they get to refresh their motifs, but falls below in near-uptime or uptime fights.

Ideally each class also brings a non-damage thing or two only they can do, uniquely, so that there's another reason you'd want each class around (compare the group portal Warlocks in WoW have). But that's a bit tricky while we use so many buttons for these flat and static damage rotations.

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Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain

I'm hearing some interesting things in here. Never knew about cool stuff like magenta skipping but I agree picto is much harder than current black mage. I struggle to agree it's harder than red mage since red mage is the only true caster left it feels like. The recent change to manafication however does make using melee combo much easier atleast during the 2 minute burst.

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I find rdm to be the easiest caster xD but might be biased because i played it for so long that it became second nature. Cleared multiple savage tiers and ultimates on rdm always pushing it as far as possible. Even played it through the tough times in SHB and EW. That hurt the most to see rdm so mistreated.....

Even if you are familiar with another there is no world where SMN isn’t the easier caster. It’s barely even a class

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Even if you are familiar with another there is no world where SMN isn’t the easier caster. It’s barely even a class

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Well, true that.

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Originally Posted by Quotie_Pie

I see, I was looking at cDPS.

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I mean it's the most complete party contribution metric we have out there so you were right to do so.

Cdps is based on: 1. your damage as if you were hitting a striking dummy, 2. damage gained from other's buffs aka buff feeding, and 3. your own buffs (if you have one). So by definition, it is biased toward jobs that played really nicely into the 2-minute window. Picto has one of the best if not the best 2 mins burst in the game and it brings a raid buff, while blm is notoriously bad at buff feeding, and it has no aoe buff. Picto should be blowing blm out of the water when it comes to Cdps. If it's behind blm on even Cdps, then I would say the job can be argued to be on the weaker side. that said I am not sure if Blm is actually bad at buff feeding anymore after 7.2, they can do penta xenos into a flare star and despair under buff. Each of these hit about as hard as picto's star prism, so maybe I am just wrong here for saying blm is bad at buff feeding.

cDPS is for comparing how the same class performs in different setups, not how different classes perform in the same context (and even then you'd need to first split data so it's only used whenever the other 7 players were the same jobs and performed exactly the same, too).

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Originally Posted by jd2408

Cdps is based on: 1. your damage as if you were hitting a striking dummy, 2. damage gained from other's buffs aka buff feeding, and 3. your own buffs (if you have one). So by definition, it is biased toward jobs that played really nicely into the 2-minute window. Picto has one of the best if not the best 2 mins burst in the game and it brings a raid buff, while blm is notoriously bad at buff feeding, and it has no aoe buff. Picto should be blowing blm out of the water when it comes to Cdps. If it's behind blm on even Cdps, then I would say the job can be argued to be on the weaker side. that said I am not sure if Blm is actually bad at buff feeding anymore after 7.2, they can do penta xenos into a flare star and despair under buff. Each of these hit about as hard as picto's star prism, so maybe I am just wrong here for saying blm is bad at buff feeding.

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I went blm for this tier and blm opener is the weakest among all dps, even bard opener and tank openers are stronger. Blm only starts catching up after around 2 to 3min into the fight. It is ok at buff feeding i would say. Usually a buff window contains at least 2 xenoglossys, 1 flare star and a thunder refresh and as many f4 as possible. In some fights you need the xenos for movement though so buff windows tend to be on the weaker side in those fights. Overall blm is just good at sustained damage over a long period and not really at bursting. So yeah cdps favors jobs that have strong buff windows like nin, picto, drg and so on. I agree with you that picto should beat nearly all other dps when it comes to cdps, but the fact that it doesnt shows that something is wrong there. But the balancing metric remains rdps anyway, so that is what counts. Rdps is the dps that actually is contributed to the raid

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

Rdps is the dps that actually is contributed to the raid

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cDPS is, not rDPS. aDPS tells the whole contextual picture of job value only for jobs without buffs (and even then not for Dancer comps, where raw DPS is a better indicator, since ST buffs are pruned from aDPS, but rDPS tells the whole picture for no one in any party with even a single raid-buff, let alone a Dancer.

Let's say you have the choice between two DPS. They have the same striking dummy DPS. A and B provide identical raid buffs (be that identically some 5% damage buff or equally having no raid buff at all). But A is burstier than B in a manner aligned with raid buffs. A would have identical rDPS despite increasing the party's total DPS than B does by more by enhancing the value of its buffs.

Acknowledging the value of buff-exploitation is not a "bias". It's the reality. A bias means missing the mark due to some skew in perspective, but here there is no miss, just things as they are.

cDPS favors nothing, it combines rDPS and aDPS together. It gives the whole picture, while other metrics lack to various degrees.

nDPS = your own damage minus anything gained or given from raid buffs
aDPS = nDPS + your damage gained from playing into other raid buffs
rDPS = nDPS + the damage your provided to other players with your own raid buffs
cDPS = nDPS + your damage gained from other raid buffs + the damage your buffs gave to others = rDPS + your damage gained from other raid buffs

Chart differences between both rDPS and cDPS aren't huge since rDPS really constitutes the bulk of everything, but you'll still see some jobs suddenly moving a little up or down depending on their reliance on 2min bursts.