FF 14 has the worst dungeons

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I don’t get why you replied to me

I understand and accept that the nebulous “15 path dungeon with all being equally useful and leading to meaningful story divergence” is a fairytale. I’m saying that that mindset doesn’t preclude still

1) at least trying to pretend like the dungeon isn’t a curated hallway (zot and aetherfont looking at you two specifically)
2) making trash meaningful

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I mean to add onto this, every dungeon in God of War is linear. But they do a lot to disguise that, and it's not even about adding branching paths. In Alfheim for example there is a lot of verticality. Sure you need to go down a spiral staircase here, but the verticality, of seeing a path below you and above you adds a lot to the sense that you're not just walking down a corridor but are actually in a real temple.

There is also backtracking and interactivity, for example you pull a lever and the whole ground shifts to reveal another level in front of the temple. So you go back through there and now you are able to access the path forward.

Haukke Manor is incredibly linear and is probably the closest thing they've got to modern AAA design, but it's still pretty far.

Doing this unfortunately requires some serious effort put into planning and design, so you'll never ever see it happen.

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Originally Posted by Miguel85NYC

I played quite a few mmos but FF 14 is king for having the most boring dungeons I ever played. FF 14 dungeons are exactly the same from one another. Trash mobs are pointless, you have invisible walls so you can't pull more then 2 packs of mobs.. is it so hard to make dungeons unique?

I don't understand why YoshyP is fine with this.. I refuse to farm these boring dungeons for tomes.

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The main thing that still retains some uniqueness, unless they changed it, was sastasha's dungeon and how you can incidentally not fill up the entire dungeon map if you don't go exploring "the hole" or where-ever they keep the prisoners. Unless they changed it and you don't need to check what color the thing is. Toe-toe rak got simplified, among some other ones. Newer dungeons just feel like an arcade beat-em-up I swear. The formula is: [Walk across scree, pack of mobs, walk across screen, pack of mobs, maybe something level themed happens + pack of mobs, walk, mini-boss/boss fight time.]
The visuals and UI remind me a lot of an arcade-like game, but their newer dungeons really lean into it.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

I just recently did a story dungeon in GW2 with their equivalent of trust, and it's exactly the same. The only major difference is that I never thought it possible that another game would make a worse version of Trust, and yet Gw2 managed to deliver on it. While some of the bosses had quite interesting mechanics (for the first time) everything else was a pretty awful experience..LOL. Still linear and essential a corridor but with absolutely dogshit AI for the Trust. Never again..

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The explorable(higher level "sequel") versions of dungeons all have 3 mutually exclusive paths that are completely different. 2 of them required event chains to be completed to unlock the entrances, but I don't know if they got rid of that or not.

I think the dungeons are visually great, and the boss fights within them are usually just enough of a challenge to not be boring. But yea, mechanically they are really all the same; you'll never go into one wondering what it's going to be like. It speaks to a greater issue with the game, that there's no real difficulty in any of the casual content. Trash mobs and world mobs are no challenge, you just spend a long time fighting them; they are an annoyance mor than a challenge.

Dungeons are themeparks and trials are recitals.

A long time ago, I was playing EQ2. There was this volcano zone that was designed to be a dungeon crawl. It wasn't instanced. The players that pioneered the path through it - did a lot of exploring every inch of the area. In the end, the enemies that dropped loot were identified and the path was essentially the most linear line you could make from entrance to Boss #1, to #2, to #3, etc. You could skip about 75% of this dangerous area once you knew the "efficient way" to go.

With a little more gear, it was found that you could train the entire zone to Boss#1, and there was a method where a Monk could force a "feign death" on a healer. Drag everything, make sure the healer is "safely" feigning death - then allow a wipe. Healer raises everyone up. Bring a few monks to do this to multiple healers, and now you have the entire raid group back up in a few minutes pulling the first boss.

In other words, efficient paths are found... and then even more efficient methods can be found. While I'm all for more interesting dungeons, at the end of the day, players you meet in duty finder are going to wait to blitz the content as fast as possible. So, even the "interesting content" will become dull after a while since you'll just go through it the same way every time.

The proplem with 14 dungeons is they are designed booring on purpose, Unlike lets just say a WoW dungeon had some kinda complex things you had to do or you just died simple as that and every dungeon was really Unique.

FF14s devs like to throw in a new animation and say OH WE DONE its a unique fight now and be done with it, In arr the bosses and everything was unique and well designed even if people hated some of the dungeons *cough* stone vigil but those are things that forever remembered by a player I mean AV is probably the most hated dungeon in the game yet its the best design and everyone will remember it, noone will remember half the dungeons after stormblood because they just rehash the same fights with new animations and names.


In most other games every piece of the game feels alive and enjoyable, In ff14 they take "for anyone to get through" way to seriosely which makes things feel dead and not in a good way half the fights you can autopilot them just by muscle memory alone and not die and do the max dps for your job because every fight is a 1 2 3 4 then phase shift 4 2 3 1 you dont have to think you dont have to do anything but build a muscle memory for the fight lol the fights are basicly like dancing or riding a bike its always the same every single time once your body remembers it physically you will never fail it unless they change it like they have been doing many places then you have to change your muscle memory

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Originally Posted by ovIm

It wasn't always like this. Dungeons used to be a tad more exciting in what they asked players to do. But that had to be pushed away for a more "streamlined" experience (read - playable by bots so duty support works).




Neither am I. considering he himself claims he feels like falling asleep during dungeons.

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I find this to be the smoking gun that he does not give a shit about this game anymore.

Mao thinkings another part why dungeons so borings is that boss fights becoming increasingly little more than DDR. Is scripted dances whats need only memorizing the dance steps and to has the mobility to do these steps. Is soulless fights with no randomness, no spirit of adventure. Is fights whats always the same. Mind numbings. Is why Mao subscription has been cancelled. Mao nots want pay for game whats now too borings for Mao.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

Mao thinkings another part why dungeons so borings is that boss fights becoming increasingly little more than DDR. Is scripted dances whats need only memorizing the dance steps and to has the mobility to do these steps. Is soulless fights with no randomness, no spirit of adventure. Is fights whats always the same. Mind numbings. Is why Mao subscription has been cancelled. Mao nots want pay for game whats now too borings for Mao.

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DDR has really always been the dominant mechanic in the game, to be fair. The only real difference between the different difficulty tiers in this game is how difficult of a mental puzzle you have to solve (and how quickly you have to solve it) to perform the proper DDR. It's honestly impressive just how much cool stuff they've been able to do for so long with just "go stand in the right spot" being the only real mechanic resolution. But yeah it's finally starting to wear thin. Really worried M5S-M8S is just gonna be another 30 flavors of "this tell means pairs, this tell means spread, remember this stored mechanic for six minutes from now."