Physical ranged strike!

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Originally Posted by JC65

Yes and no. Phys range are normally given the mechanic tasks that do not require positionals, honestly in some ways when I played monk it was more braindead since you just attack, move to positional attack. Melee can ignore a lot more mechanics than phys range since we are asked to do more. I guess it depends on the group, but phys range are tasked with making sure they are out enough that melee can keep their uptime, yet get back in for a stack. Phys range is no less challenging in many respects as they have to have their head on a swivel while the melee just punch away. No dps has it much easier than others. And why should blm be so far ahead of us on dps, they actually have it easier with the porting around and almost complete magic immunity at times.

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Very much this! Any mechanic that requires adjusting is always given to the phys ranged

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

Very much this! Any mechanic that requires adjusting is always given to the phys ranged

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Which is so rare that it basically never justifies the role and half the time nobody adjusts and you just take the penalty

Two key mechanics I can think of for this were intemperance where the bad combo you were supposed to flex the MT and the ranged but 99% of the time parties would just opt for the tank to take the damage down. Same as whatever the mechanic was called in O11 where the ranged were supposed to bait the missiles, instead the PLD went and stood in the corner and pressed hallowed ground to ignore the mechanic

About the only time I can think of that phys ranged actually flexed based on their role’s strengths was BRD was first priority for kiting the renalds in T7 but that was way back when phys ranged had a very different niche in the party

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Originally Posted by JC65

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/62

While FFLogs does not speak to all the problems, it does point out where phys range stand compared to everyone else. I do recall a few years ago their argument with Ninja and dancer dps being much lower than others is because it buffed other people. So those dps that did not buff others were supposed to be concidered greedy and do more dps than those who did buff others. Seems they just decided to make this a melee dps world, period. And before we go off on a rant about fflogs being third party and not acceptable, we all know devs do look at it to see where classes stand.

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This is utterly depressing to look at , the disparity between phys range and everyone else has just been getting bigger and bigger since SHB. Yikes. This also got worse compared to the expansion launch numbers.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Melees are more into boss (they have to dodge more compared to other roles)

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Phys ranged get to dodge just as many mechanics and also get their own unique mechanics that they have to resolve the same way melees do, what are you even on about?

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Originally Posted by Tunda

As I said, Phy range should have Walking cast like PvP kit for Bard and Machinist to make them not only unique but satisfying and balance

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Please do not even muse bringing back HW caster bard. It felt terrible. They removed it for a reason. And no it wasn't satisfying at all to play in PVE.

I really don't know who on the balance team has it out for this role , they've genuinely treated phys range like dogshit for several expansions.

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Originally Posted by GreenLeafy

This is utterly depressing to look at , the disparity between phys range and everyone else has just been getting bigger and bigger since SHB. Yikes. This also got worse compared to the expansion launch numbers.



Phys ranged get to dodge just as many mechanics and also get their own unique mechanics that they have to resolve the same way melees do, what are you even on about?



Please do not even muse bringing back HW caster bard. It felt terrible. They removed it for a reason. And no it wasn't satisfying at all to play in PVE.

I really don't know who on the balance team has it out for this role , they've genuinely treated phys range like dogshit for several expansions.

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People think that mobility means we don't need to dodge anything or that mechanics miss phys ranged or something

I think HW BRD was a bowmage mostly because MCH was designed around Gauss Barrel adding cast times and damage and they thought BRD would be imbalanced comparatively. It worked better on MCH, as it was given more buttons that allowed it to move freely and even buttons to guarantee it could move freely, while BRD had to rely on a proc that it could not overcap or control, and limited movement even further with an oGCD weapon skill with a cast time (Empyreal Arrow, which specifically actually felt great because it was so much stronger and chonkier than the rest of BRD's actions at that point, comboing with Barrage, too, but I digress).

This was removed wholesale from BRD but not from MCH until ShB, as MCH relied on Flamethrower to control its central heat gauge mechanic in StB which required planting its feet for a bit like Ten Chi Jin. Very little reason for Flamethrower to exist now.

I'm just pointing it out to bring up that having some cast times or mobility constraints shouldn't be completely tossed. Playing BRD and MCH in PvP, they do actually feel like they hit much harder and the cast while moving actions are satisfying to use. Give em a try at least at the wolves den if you never have. Not saying they all need it, but it's a potential solution to making the three pranged feel more diverse in how they play in between burst phases.

I remember older fights definitely had more for pranged to do as they tended to have more mechanics centered on a single player that the team could control with movement which allowed them to excel at as they had no movement constraints. T7 was already brought up as one that happened often enough that you couldn't just tank cheese, but there was also t8 guided missile tether (even Brainjack could be solved by pranged if you wanted to solo tank it), Ramuh Extreme always targeting the furthest player +1 not aggro target with Chaos Strike, things to interrupt and heavy, even bind in some places (though that was basically never necessary even in t7).

I'd say give pranged more unique support to the party. MP, TP and enmity are basically gone, and everyone and their mother buffs damage of the group now (and even heals and mitigates it), so also give em like... I dunno, group wide True North, Arm's Length or steal Expedience from SCH. Let them support the party in whatever way they can, and let em do it in ways they are different from each other. Maybe DNC also shares role actions with its partner and whoever temporarily gets Espirit. Let MCH toss out turrets that pulse the effects like Bishop did. BRD's songs could be given more freedom to cycle (they're rigid now) and just carry additional benefits, or they could be given unique songs with those effects. Go nuts.

Yoshi-P specifically blamed North America for the existence of the 2-minute meta. He mentioned that NA players requested this change because they did not want to hold their buffs for later alignment in raids. Since some individuals would use their buffs on cooldown, it led to a loss in raid DPS. Their data showed that players, especially veterans, would frequently hold and synchronize their buffs during fights. Therefore, even if the 2-minute meta hadn't been implemented, the player base would likely have developed it subconsciously.

I would personally just nuke group-based utility from every other DPSer BUT the aiming niche. Well, not deleting, but reworking them: everything that affected the whole group now affects just the player (eg. Mantra, Magick Barrier), essentially becoming individual utility.

Addle and Feint are also moved to the aiming role actions with shared recast times.

I feel the support aspect could be further enhanced with a move like this.

For the love of god, don't add casts to phys range.

I play phys range for this exact reason, I don't worry about casting or tunnel vision on positionals and to me that was comfy. I had a bad experience tanking so I decided I'd never tank/heal in savage. I was able to dip my toes into savage thanks to it, I don't enjoy savage but the comfort of freedom of movement is nice, I can focus on mechanics and myself. My smooth brain enjoys it. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Rueby

For the love of god, don't add casts to phys range.

I play phys range for this exact reason, I don't worry about casting or tunnel vision on positionals and to me that was comfy. I had a bad experience tanking so I decided I'd never tank/heal in savage. I was able to dip my toes into savage thanks to it, I don't enjoy savage but the comfort of freedom of movement is nice, I can focus on mechanics and myself. My smooth brain enjoys it. Thanks.

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They're talking about casts where you can move while casting without interrupting the cast like in PVP so that the ability takes longer to use and should therefore hit harder

they should just bring uptime management back to melees. then phys ranged can keep their low dmg