The Limitation Dilemma: Why Final Fantasy 14's Limited Job was a Mistake

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

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It's not accidental it's just I'm sorry but it honestly feels like you're trying to overcomplicate your points and making excuses for the sake of your argument.

You're still bringing up the meta excuse which I keep telling you, Blue Magic isn't supposed to be balanced in the first place.

Then you keep saying about changing spell effects which I'm gonna tell you know ever since FFV introduced blue spells, every other FF game that reintroduced those same spells still retains those same effects for the most part. White Wind will always be a party heal based on your current HP, 1000 Needles will always be a static damage spell and so on and so forth.

Again youre missing the entire appeal of Blue Magic for it being a class that doesn't care about balance. If the class focuses too much about balance then we're back to square 1 with it being just another job that got neutered for the sake of the game's meta.

I'm sorry but your tldr arguments keep missing this basic point of why Blue Mage is Blue Mage.

I may be getting my people mixed up, but isn't this one of Titanmen's many many alts?

This really isn't a good argument, heck, ChatGPT could hold a better debate regarding the merits of loosening BLU's limitations.

Come on out titanmen, i know you're there, come out and play.

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Originally Posted by TheDecay

It's not either/or if they actually invest in expanding the balancing team beyond 3 people, all of whom are also on other teams.

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And how would they do that exactly without overcomplicating things? Do remember this is a casual game btw

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

It's not accidental it's just I'm sorry but it honestly feels like you're trying to overcomplicate your points and making excuses for the sake of your argument.

You're still bringing up the meta excuse which I keep telling you, Blue Magic isn't supposed to be balanced in the first place.

Then you keep saying about changing spell effects which I'm gonna tell you know ever since FFV introduced blue spells, every other FF game that reintroduced those same spells still retains those same effects for the most part. White Wind will always be a party heal based on your current HP, 1000 Needles will always be a static damage spell and so on and so forth.

Again youre missing the entire appeal of Blue Magic for it being a class that doesn't care about balance. If the class focuses too much about balance then we're back to square 1 with it being just another job that got neutered for the sake of the game's meta.

I'm sorry but your tldr arguments keep missing this basic point of why Blue Mage is Blue Mage.

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Blue Mage's identity is being a magic user that uses monster abilities. That's it. It's identity isn't "I'm a broken mage that breaks the game". If that were the case, we wouldn't see each iteration of it after 5 be fairly weaker. I think 6 is the last time it was actually very strong, and even then you had other stuff like Sabin in the game to counter balance it. If you think BLU's identity and purpose is to be broken, then boy howdy do I wanna introduce you to Kimahri and FFTA.

And I never said change white wind from a party heal, I said adjust it to fit within the context of FF14. You're warping what I'm saying into something I'm not.

And, once again, I'm going to say, AGAIN, that this isn't an either or situation. You can have your game breaking abilities. A lot of them don't work on bosses anyways! You can still use them for tomestone farming!

But if you're just going to chalk what I said up to excuses and just call my post a tldr and not actually respond to it, then whatever, man. Keep living in this world where you let SE trample over things instead of holding them to an actual standard. Sucks foe the rest of us that lose out on our favorite jobs in the series, but oh well!

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Blue Mage's identity is being a magic user that uses monster abilities. That's it. It's identity isn't "I'm a broken mage that breaks the game". If that were the case, we wouldn't see each iteration of it after 5 be fairly weaker. I think 6 is the last time it was actually very strong, and even then you had other stuff like Sabin in the game to counter balance it. If you think BLU's identity and purpose is to be broken, then boy howdy do I wanna introduce you to Kimahri and FFTA.

And I never said change white wind from a party heal, I said adjust it to fit within the context of FF14. You're warping what I'm saying into something I'm not.

And, once again, I'm going to say, AGAIN, that this isn't an either or situation. You can have your game breaking abilities. A lot of them don't work on bosses anyways! You can still use them for tomestone farming!

But if you're just going to chalk what I said up to excuses and just call my post a tldr and not actually respond to it, then whatever, man. Keep living in this world where you let SE trample over things instead of holding them to an actual standard. Sucks foe the rest of us that lose out on our favorite jobs in the series, but oh well!

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You sour the discussion when you go off the assumption your standards are better or mean more than another's.

BLU is special because of how it currently works. Just saying. I wouldn't enjoy BLU working like the other jobs do.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

You sour the discussion when you go off the assumption your standards are better or mean more than another's.

BLU is special because of how it currently works. Just saying

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You're gonna say that and then immediately turn around and say "it's better this way" because you like the way it is? This is such a hypocritical post. Why is your standard better than mine? We can all have our opinions on the job, and I'm expressing my distaste in how SE has implemented one of my historically favorite jobs and trying to brainstorm ways to make it work. You come in here and say I'm claiming my opinion is better, but then state your opinion as if it is fact/better than mine. Okay dude.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Blue Mage's identity is being a magic user that uses monster abilities. That's it. It's identity isn't "I'm a broken mage that breaks the game". If that were the case, we wouldn't see each iteration of it after 5 be fairly weaker. I think 6 is the last time it was actually very strong, and even then you had other stuff like Sabin in the game to counter balance it. If you think BLU's identity and purpose is to be broken, then boy howdy do I wanna introduce you to Kimahri and FFTA.

And I never said change white wind from a party heal, I said adjust it to fit within the context of FF14. You're warping what I'm saying into something I'm not.

And, once again, I'm going to say, AGAIN, that this isn't an either or situation. You can have your game breaking abilities. A lot of them don't work on bosses anyways! You can still use them for tomestone farming!

But if you're just going to chalk what I said up to excuses and just call my post a tldr and not actually respond to it, then whatever, man. Keep living in this world where you let SE trample over things instead of holding them to an actual standard. Sucks foe the rest of us that lose out on our favorite jobs in the series, but oh well!

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You do realize your method of balance is just going to have SE stifle and hold back on Blue Mages potential right? This is the reason for why Im against this idea of having Blue Mage be part of the regular jobs because thats just going to limit the developers from employing fun abilities for the sake of keeping it balanced.

Sure Blue Magic isn't as broken in the other games like FFV but that didn't keep them from still giving them unique effects and abilities to experiment. Blue Magic still retains that core principle, it's so much more than just "abilities you learn from monsters".

It's very ironic how you keep saying that I'm letting SE trample over things when that's exactly what your trying to do with the job. You seriously think they'll continue to develop the class with its current core mechanics? You are more deluded than I thought. You're actively ignoring the job balancing history and they're just going to keep dumbing it down and down till it gets homogenized. Then what?

Face it, you have no answers.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

You're gonna say that and then immediately turn around and say "it's better this way" because you like the way it is? This is such a hypocritical post. Why is your standard better than mine? We can all have our opinions on the job, and I'm expressing my distaste in how SE has implemented one of my historically favorite jobs and trying to brainstorm ways to make it work. You come in here and say I'm claiming my opinion is better, but then state your opinion as if it is fact/better than mine. Okay dude.

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Reading comprehension. I never said better. I simply said it's special atm because of how it works differently than other classes. Nowhere did I say better. Nothing hypocritical at all. YOU are the one telling people to let them trample over them and that they arent holding SE to an actual standard.

Nowhere did I claim my standard is better...You're Cleary charged n upset and it shows. Calm down and take in what you're reading dude.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

You do realize your method of balance is just going to have SE stifle and hold back on Blue Mages potential right? This is the reason for why Im against this idea of having Blue Mage be part of the regular jobs because thats just going to limit the developers from employing fun abilities for the sake of keeping it balanced.

Sure Blue Magic isn't as broken in the other games like FFV but that didn't keep them from still giving them unique effects and abilities to experiment. Blue Magic still retains that core principle, it's so much more than just "abilities you learn from monsters".

It's very ironic how you keep saying that I'm letting SE trample over things when that's exactly what your trying to do with the job. You seriously think they'll continue to develop the class with its current core mechanics? You are more deluded than I thought. You're actively ignoring the job balancing history and they're just going to keep dumbing it down and down till it gets homogenized. Then what?

Face it, you have no answers.

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No answers? Alright.

I'll say it yet again.

1. SE can still add those fun abilities for you to use in old/low level content/tomestone farming/etc like you do now. They manage to add new skills to every other job every expansion as well, so... You guys are so stuck on this either or situation when it doesn't have to be that way.
2. I have said already I'm an advocate for removing the two minute meta. That includes getting rid of the homogenization we both dislike. If Square would actually do this, it'd work wonders for everyone.
3. Hold SE accountable and to a standard, let them know what we like and dislike in job design.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

No answers? Alright.

I'll say it yet again.

1. SE can still add those fun abilities for you to use in old/low level content/tomestone farming/etc like you do now. They manage to add new skills to every other job every expansion as well, so... You guys are so stuck on this either or situation when it doesn't have to be that way.
2. I have said already I'm an advocate for removing the two minute meta. That includes getting rid of the homogenization we both dislike. If Square would actually do this, it'd work wonders for everyone.
3. Hold SE accountable and to a standard, let them know what we like and dislike in job design.

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My brother, SE isn't going to keep the tomestone farming methods builds viable for current content like Ram's Voice + Ultravibration because they don't intend for balanced jobs to melt down mobs in an instant, they also don't intend for the myriad of easy insta heals, buffs and debuffs for when they design future instance encounters.

Seriously the more you try to make these excuses the angrier I get because you are not listening at all. Nobody wants for SE to change the class's arsenal design at all. You and other people keep asking for Blues viability in current game is just gonna end up making the class homogenized, which is a point you still fail to answer back to.

Zebraoracle, the only one who's being the stifler for creativity is you and its sad that you fail again and again to realize this. You're only looking at the present rather than the future.