The Future of WHM

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Originally Posted by snuggans

not necessarily, the shield would mean that the other heals can be delayed and you'd spend that period DPSing instead of maintaining the tank, your argument is based on not making any alterations to playstyle after new abilities are added to the game. remember, the point is to be able to offload surplus lilies in a way thats still useful when the tank's HP is doing fine, a shield would accomplish this and buy you more time to DPS while helping unlock Misery without Solace overheals

also i have no idea what you mean by "WHM can't have a buff or damage spell because Misery locks the whole design into a corner.", it just seems like you're boycotting any proposed changes just because

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1) It probably would be bad for WHM to get another shield. Considering players all want to optimise and we have lived in the OGCD meta for a while now, it'd be weird if the "pure" healers were shielding more than the barrier healers; given that SCH/SGE ideally don't want to GCD cast any shields and so only have their OGCD shields that are on longer CDs than D.Benison/C.Intersection.
2) I don't think WHM should get a damage spell linked to lilies. It puts it in the same spot as SCH where you'll essentially get a penalty every time you need to use lilies for a heal. Not to mention it would have to take a hit to one of its other spells as WHM is doing pretty good with pDPS at the moment.

I'd like to see something innovative but I'm not sure exactly what. A buff would mean WHMs would need to optimise play around buff windows, which isn't the complexity they ever put this job at. They could maybe do something DPS wise if it was on a much longer CD than lily generation, but then you essentially have the same problem again. They could bring back abilities like Virus or Eye for an eye, but SCHs would be hella salty.

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

I'd like to see something innovative but I'm not sure exactly what. A buff would mean WHMs would need to optimise play around buff windows, which isn't the complexity they ever put this job at. They could maybe do something DPS wise if it was on a much longer CD than lily generation, but then you essentially have the same problem again. They could bring back abilities like Virus or Eye for an eye, but SCHs would be hella salty.

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TBH, it doesn't have to be something profound. We could...
-Make WHM the selfish DPS healer; the healer who can capitalize on a buff window, using a torrential storm of elemental rage that accumulates based on actual healing provided to the party (healing = rage, a concept we're all familiar with). From there, you just alter general parameters to compensate, though I doubt this would require a massive edit to numbers overall depending on frequency. Or,
-Give WHM another ability which activates when the Blood Lily has affected enemies a certain number of times (i.e. 3 times, and you get a "you did it!" bonus effect, the "blood bouquet" or something). Or,
-Make WHM the basic buffer, who provides the basic-but-much-beloved basic ATK+ buffs to the party (in the form of a familiar spell called Bravery, which becomes available if a Lily is successfully used to heal party members and not just used to overheal). In response to that, change ASTs buffs to be indirect/weird buffs (for example, rather than just ATK+, have AST increase the Weapon Damage number on an affected character's weapon by 5, (or something more reasonable, because I don't know the exact formula(s) for damage and therefore don't know how much WD is weighted in damage calculations), keep SCH buffing characters' other battle parameters like Max HP and Movement speed, and allow SGE to buff themselves using 1 out of every 3 Addersgall gained to change their Auto-attacks to a (short-) ranged attack that uses MND in damage calculations for 15 seconds (or a more reasonable amount of time, again, I don't know the formula(s))).

Or a whole plethora of other ideas that players would like a hell of a lot more than what I can come up. They also have other games and series, under the Squeenix umbrella, to draw inspiration from, and it's not as if they need to tread absolutely brand new territory.

My biggest gripe with whm is how laughably weak Tetra is compared to basically every other alike ability on other healers, both excog and taurochole are 100 pot more on 45 sec cooldwon you might say hey at least those ability cost a resource point to use ok sure ill give you that but what about Essential Dignity, 2 charges of up to 900 potency ogcd heal on 40 sec cooldown inb4 Tetra is 1 min cooldown and heals less than a cure 2 after 85 like come on...not mentioning how you get tetra at lvl 60 while astro gets dignity at lvl 15

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

My biggest gripe with whm is how laughably weak Tetra is compared to basically every other alike ability on other healers, both excog and taurochole are 100 pot more on 45 sec cooldwon you might say hey at least those ability cost a resource point to use ok sure ill give you that but what about Essential Dignity, 2 charges of up to 900 potency ogcd heal on 40 sec cooldown inb4 Tetra is 1 min cooldown and heals less than a cure 2 after 85 like come on...not mentioning how you get tetra at lvl 60 while astro gets dignity at lvl 15

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I feel like these sort of comments aren't useful because you haven't looked at the full picture. On release, AST had weaker potencies than the other healers and was considered pretty bad. They literally needed E.dignity in their kit, and at that time only had one charge. Today, it has 2 charges because AST has no other single target emergency buttons. WHM has access to both A.Solace and Benediction.

Again, not saying that WHM shouldn't have changes or that Tetra wouldn't be better earlier in the WHM toolkit, but if you are going to compare you have to look at the entire toolkits of all the healers you mention.

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

I feel like these sort of comments aren't useful because you haven't looked at the full picture. On release, AST had weaker potencies than the other healers and was considered pretty bad. They literally needed E.dignity in their kit, and at that time only had one charge. Today, it has 2 charges because AST has no other single target emergency buttons. WHM has access to both A.Solace and Benediction.

Again, not saying that WHM shouldn't have changes or that Tetra wouldn't be better earlier in the WHM toolkit, but if you are going to compare you have to look at the entire toolkits of all the healers you mention.

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What's the excuse for Excog and Taurchole then? Regardless, it's not much of an excuse to leave skills outdated.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

What's the excuse for Excog and Taurchole then? Regardless, it's not much of an excuse to leave skills outdated.

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OGCDs are weird on all healers tbf, it’s not a WHM exclusive issue. AST/WHM get 2 single target shields per minute, SCH has none and SGE has haima, which is more a fairie tether equivalent.
Similarly SGE has 2 regens, AST has 1 and WHM has 0.

Once again you have to look at the entire kits. Things may not make sense, but it’s not WHM exclusive. If the issue was to be sorted, it would need to be across the board.

Suggestion for a Aero/Dia rework? It's actually been on my mind for the last few days. This is mostly me playing BRD the last view weeks, but it is something worth talking about.

My suggestion is that the Aero/Dia spell should no longer be a DoT ability and should instead be something like SGE's Phlegma ability minus the healing potency that was slapped onto it. It should also be tied to the Regen spells (including Medica II's regen).

Please note, I'm just playing around with the potency and percentage numbers here, so don't take the numbering portions too literally.

Reworked Aero/Dia

• Instant Cast GCD ability
• Recast timer of 40secs
• Maximum Charges: 2

Aero: Deals wind Damage to a single target with a potency of 240.
Aero II: Deals wind Damage to a single target with a potency of 280.

At level 62, Aero II is upgraded to good old Aero III.

• The skill becomes an AoE ability like Phlegma.
• Deals wind Damage to a target and all nearby enemies around it with a potency of 350 for the first enemy and 30% less for all remaining enemies.

At level 72, Aero III is upgraded to an AoE Dia.

• I believe Dia was a multi-hitting ability in older FF titles, so that's why I suggest the spell be a AoE ability now.
• Deals light Damage to a target and all nearby enemies around it with a potency of 460 for the first enemy and 30% less for all remaining enemies.

As for how this skill ties to Regen, let's just say that for every tick of the regen timer, there is a certain chance that the recast timer for Aero/Dia will go down. Here is what it looks like.

New Trait: Gained at level 50

• Name: Don't know. Not good with naming things.
• For each tick of Regen, there will be a 50% chance the recast timer for Aero/Dia will be reduced by 8 seconds. A trait will be earned at the later levels which will increase this chance to 70%.

As for the regen coming from Medica II, the chance for this to happen has been decreased to 25%. Will increase to 30% at a later level. This is due to the fact that Medica II is a AoE regen, and to balance things out, the chance for lowering the recast timer for Aero/Dia is drastically reduced.

Again, this is something that's been on my head a lot since I've been playing BRD. And since it ties to my personal feelings that healers should be rewarded for healing, it plays out (in my head at least).

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

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I know you said not to get hung up on Potencies but in order for this suggestion to be balanced so that WHM isn't completely screwed over, Aero/Dia would need to be in the ballpark of 920 potency for this idea to work. Dia currently does 660 total potency over its entire duration so trying to push that potency back 10s would mean an additional potency of ~260 would be needed just to break even with old Dia.

As for Regen reducing the timer by 8s per tic, that would have to compete with Glare 3 in order for Dia to make up the difference between. Since Glare would be roughly 1/3 that of Dia, you would need to shave off 13s per cast to make up it's cast. At 70% chance, Regen on average proc about 4/6 tics of its duration, reducing the cast time between Dia down to 8 seconds, which is more than a little ridiculous. So to balance it, you'd need to reduce the time down to 4s per tic.

So now Dia is a 920 nuke with Regen, on average, providing more DPS than Glare 3. It would give WHM a more involved rotation but I'm not sure how healthy throwing out 920 AoE nukes would be, even if the AoE Fall Off was on the higher end of the spectrum.

if you dont want ppl to get hung up on potencies just say ut duoes X damage tbh

anyways, i think giving non-overheal regen ticks procs for beneficial effects to offset the lost gcd is great.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Reworked Aero/Dia

• Instant Cast GCD ability
• Recast timer of 40secs
• Maximum Charges: 2

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This feels like just a far worse (less flexible, fewer options, less nuance) version of what we already have.

At present, Aero/Dia performs two functions:

• It adds damage over time, optimized by use "on CD" (replacing it before the server tick after it expires).
• It offers an instant cast for mobility, albeit at the cost of up to 250 potency (if chain casting Dia) relative to Glare III spam.

With your version --until the new trait which would require Regen ticks (and perhaps oblige it be maintained on multiple allies for overhealing)-- you now have one third fewer non-Glare casts per minute, because of the longer cooldown, and you will have cost WHM its instant-cast option.

With the trait in play, this becomes even more problematic, because the higher the CD (and thus the potency), the greater the value of CD-Reduction.

So now you're likely obliged to Regen (which will likely overheal and/or be far less efficient for actual healing across targets on which to maintain it than would an AoE heal), or else face even more Glare spam, and have no mobility option outside of Lily casts (with their likely overheal).

The solution, generally, would be to instead go the Thundercloud approach. Keep Dia a DoT, on its old duration or shorter (24 multiplies smoothly to 120 for raid cycles, though it does oblige a 2.4s GCD for perfect uptime, which then adds one Glare per minute). Have the proc instead make it deal its damage instantly atop inflicting the DoT, or even just upgrade the next use of Dia to deal all its damage instantly (no DoT), which then wouldn't mess with DoT timings (for better or worse).

Note: If you use an external element for the proc chance, then each the value of each proc-chance event will decrease as the remaining duration of the DoT decreases, unless the proc turns it into a DoT-less upgrade. Keeping the DoT even on the procced form then offers additional skill ceiling, but in a way that not everyone will necessarily appreciate, so balance per your preference.

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Originally Posted by QooEr

if you dont want ppl to get hung up on potencies just say ut duoes X damage tbh

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Giving a damage value would be useless, as it'd depend on one's gear. That's the reason why our tooltips, for all their awkward language, tend to be far more useful than, say, WoW's, as they at least give us something that applies across multiple characters.

Useful will only be...

• Potency
• Filler casts' worth of potency (of like type, oGCDs vs. oGCD filler or GCDs vs. GCD filler).
• "Damage enough that it should be used <in X manner>"