The coming balance changes to jobs

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Healers are literally the least played role though. Considering how quickly that became a reality despite the role getting a new job should be pretty telling on how the role is perceived as a whole. They do a couple balance patches but the first patch is in history supposed to be one of the biggest ones and it literally has nothing for healers. Neither does this next one coming up either apparently. They don’t even use these forums for input anymore according to their own words. They use social media the likes of twitter and reddit more. Also why are we bringing up gameplay/balance? Mp issue addressing is a part of balancing lmao.

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Curiously, how do you know healers are the least played role? I know for myself I used to always play both a healer and a tank, recently changing to DPS and a healer with tank as the back role for Endwalker. And please don't list something silly like Lucky Bancho as the metric, since last I checked they base it on weapon item level, and while many easily have 530 gear now at 80, even back in ShB people oddly were mostly Augmented Exarchic for the casual populace.

I know on Sage at least, no MP issues at all. Stuck to the same mantra I've had since ShB of popping Lucid at 7k. And SGE has "MP issues" if they don't want to "waste their Addersgall", yet never experienced it so far.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Healers are literally the least played role though. Considering how quickly that became a reality despite the role getting a new job should be pretty telling on how the role is perceived as a whole. They do a couple balance patches but the first patch is in history supposed to be one of the biggest ones and it literally has nothing for healers. Neither does this next one coming up either apparently. They don’t even use these forums for input anymore according to their own words. They use social media the likes of twitter and reddit more. Also why are we bringing up gameplay/balance? Mp issue addressing is a part of balancing lmao.

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Except there are more logged parses of white mage than nearly every job, rivalling reaper. So much for being the least played job.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I don't touch savage content, so maybe WHM MP is an actual concern there, but I have also seen people complaining about WHM in basic content (MSQ trials, basic roulette content, etc), and that's what is making it hard for me to take the MP complaint that seriously.

Yes, MP does seem to go down a little bit quicker these days, but it's still very manageable if you're using your kit properly.

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I’ve been in dungeons with WHM, done some trials on it myself, and done the old Alliance raids. Keeping up with your ABC is manageable with very proactive Lucid management—but Raising outside of Thin Air, or being forced to GCD heal with anything other than Rapture is immensely costly. And it makes recovering incredibly difficult for the supposed “pure, burst healer” in this game. SGE is fairly punishing when you die on it, because you lose any stored stacks, and you already don’t have many burst heal options on the GCD. But I’ve found recovering with it far easier due to things like Rhizomata to grant me an Addersgall stack just to blow on healing myself and getting some mana back to hold me over until Lucid comes off cooldown.

Compare that to WHM: if you die, you can’t use Thin Air anymore to grant yourself a few seconds to recover the mana you’ve lost. You lose your lilies, so you have to hope you have Tetra or Bene to top yourself if your cohealer doesn’t help you out there. WHM doesn’t have that much recovery from a death now, in my opinion. And it also cannot carry a bad Alliance in an Alliance raid with anywhere near the reliability it could in SB or ShB.

And as Liam said, pre-Assize/Thin Air content is even worse because all you have are your costly GCD spells. I may not be the greatest WHM, but I’ve played it enough to know that, before now, I wasn’t going OOM just from casting a couple Medica IIs when people eat crap in World of Darkness (or when those gods forsaken meteor towers explode…). And I won’t touch Cure III with a 50-foot pole at its 1500 MP per cast when I’m standing there with 50-60% after a raise and here comes a raidwide. Pre-50 MP was never that great, but it was far more manageable pre-EW than it is now.

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

Except there are more logged parses of white mage than nearly every job, rivalling reaper. So much for being the least played job.

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To be fair, they said least played ROLE. Not job. They’re talking about healers in general.

WHM has high uploads because of its ease of play versus the other healers and its usual counterpart AST. AST is, by comparison, very busy; WHM is very simple and a little braindead in terms of play. It’s also chosen for early Savage because it’s a very good prog healer due to raw potency and previous god-tier mana economy. I don’t know how it manages in Week 1 Savage right now, but my cohealer opted for AST strictly due to AST’s near-bottomless mana pool being very appealing for early progression. And, quite frankly, AST has just as good of healing as WHM.

WHM having high uploads isn’t anything new. And just because it has them doesn’t mean it doesn’t have issues that should be addressed.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

Curiously, how do you know healers are the least played role? I know for myself I used to always play both a healer and a tank, recently changing to DPS and a healer with tank as the back role for Endwalker. And please don't list something silly like Lucky Bancho as the metric, since last I checked they base it on weapon item level, and while many easily have 530 gear now at 80, even back in ShB people oddly were mostly Augmented Exarchic for the casual populace.

I know on Sage at least, no MP issues at all. Stuck to the same mantra I've had since ShB of popping Lucid at 7k. And SGE has "MP issues" if they don't want to "waste their Addersgall", yet never experienced it so far.

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Mp issues are a whm thing. When at all did i mention sage?

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Mp issues are a whm thing. When at all did i mention sage?

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And the question asked? . . .

Many healers are saying they have MP issues if look at role forums, I listed SGE's example.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Mp issues are a whm thing. When at all did i mention sage?

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

Except there are more logged parses of white mage than nearly every job, rivalling reaper. So much for being the least played job.

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Is there a reading problem going on here? When did i say whm was the least played job. I said healers are the least played role.As for how i know, outside of parse uploads, just look at the constant "healer in need" for roulettes for some basic understanding of it.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Does he play a healer? Nupe. As a developer you’d think you’d play a bit of everything to feel how it is and if it needs adjustments. Yet every expansion it’s always the same. Dps get the attention, tanks get a bit more but not much, and healers are in their own corner left sulking. They literally didn’t even address the biggest blatant problem which is whm mp so that’s pretty telling as you can notice it as a problem within 5 minutes of playing the job lmao.

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You are just nitpicking.
you won't find a game producer going to play every job creates, there is team of internal testers they hired (surprise? something Blizzard stop doing it) for that.
All he need to do is actually playing a job and understand what is current going on in the game, that is already makes him far better game prodcuer

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

And the question asked? . . .

Many healers are saying they have MP issues if look at role forums, I listed SGE's example.

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SGE is MP positive—although its mana does drain faster versus SCH or AST, since both have other sources of mana regen in Energy Drain and Draw where as SGE doesn’t if you don’t use your Addersgall for it. However, proper play to maintain mana is to blow an Addersgall stack on a random party member for mana if you won’t need it for healing. It can be a bit taxing to chain raise on SGE, but manageable.

WHM, by comparison, is crying if it has to chain raise and doesn’t have Thin Air available.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Mmmm delicious that Reaper privilege. It won't be nerfed. Others will be buffed.

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Why nerf down and not buff up? That is a mistake Blizzard and other devs make all the time.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

And the question asked? . . .

Many healers are saying they have MP issues if look at role forums, I listed SGE's example.

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whm and sge's issues are different though.

Sage is kinda forced into using addersgall even if it doesn't want to because its tied to its mp management, depending on the content that you run that can very much mean you only press heals to regen mana which is weird to say the least. it does however not have any mp issues under normal circumstances, if anything the only way to get mp issues as sage would be downtimes because those encourage you to put up eukrasian diagnosis on up to 3 players to recover addersting stacks but those also aren't necessary as long as your movement in general is on point. so all in all sages issues are mostly "keeping your mana topped sometimes feels bad and relatively short downtimes actually hurt your mana". aside from those factors sages mana is perfectly fine.

whm mana on the other hand literally runs dry if the fight drags on even while playing perfectly, and if you mess up even a little you are boned. theres also the point that square quite obviously expects you to use your lillies as a "mana tool", yet using them is a dps loss.

honestly whm issues aren't even hard to solve, make the lillies dps neutral (or even a very slight gain) and make them keep the lillies after death, nerf glare by 10 or whatever if that would make whm to strong and than up assize to 8% mana or so.
all in all its not even a question of "can whm get by with its given mana regeneration?" the fact of the matter is simply that every other healer has WAY better mana tools and that in itself is enough reason to buff whitemages mana regen, this by itself wouldn't raise its damage ceiling and also wouldn't raise its burst healing output so it would do literally nothing if everything runs as smooth as its supposed to, it would however help tremendously when it doesn't.