Summoner doesn't feel like it Summons.

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Originally Posted by Palladiamors

They removed the only thing resembling a pet job from the game.

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There never was a pet job. It was just a glorified DoT or HoT.

Want a pet job you play a healer. You have 3 to 7 pets to manage in instanced content.

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Originally Posted by ArcaneCarbuncle

Yuna also had permanent summons, and FFXII and XIII featured summons as temporary allies.
Let's not act as if permanent summons would be breaking any rules, the Franchise has been moving towards more permanent and interactive concepts of summoning for 20 years now; it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

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To be fair, Yuna's Summons are more in line with how the Demi's Function. Also be careful what you ask for, because asking for permanent summons is like asking for ninja posions where you pick the best one for the fight and never switch (ifrit egi) was basically this for the jobs entire life span. Then people complain they want to switch summons around, SE gave us that. Every minute you cycle through 4 pets with the Demi switching every other minute. This is thematically perfect for SMN, Yuna couldn't just switch between summons while one was out, and the 13 primals got a limited amount of actions before disappearing which is just like how the demi's function.

Thematically, this is perfection. It captures an aspect of every version of SMN, variety, and frequency. im not saying you have to like it, but it's incorrect to list yuna and eidolons as something different than what the smn's are already doing

New summoner is a whole new job. Its not an update to old summoner.

I started playing this game because of old summoner. That was the vibe/aesthetic i enjoyed. My favorite job was basically deleted. Other people feel this way too. Why is this controversial/hard to understand?

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Originally Posted by Yubie

New summoner is a whole new job. Its not an update to old summoner.

I started playing this game because of old summoner. That was the vibe/aesthetic i enjoyed. My favorite job was basically deleted. Other people feel this way too. Why is this controversial/hard to understand?

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because you're veiling your affinity for a specific playstyle as a flaw in the games iteration of SMN. in reality, this version of SMN is thematically consistent with the series this game represents. It has hit and run Summons, and it has Summons that fight with you for a bit of time before leaving too. Thats both halfs of the spectrum. This is a Final Fantasy SMN, this is the correct logical extension of what makes a SMN. now, if you argue about the playstyle. thats fine, you don't have to like it. However saying old SMN vibe and aesthetic is indicative of what a SMN is opens your opinion to scrutiny.

Just say, you like the way it played before. Don't say it's aesthetic is wrong when it's probably the most aesthetically faithful job next to dragoon, black mage, and white mage

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

because you're veiling your affinity for a specific playstyle as a flaw in the games iteration of SMN. in reality, this version of SMN is thematically consistent with the series this game represents. It has hit and run Summons, and it has Summons that fight with you for a bit of time before leaving too. Thats both halfs of the spectrum. This is a Final Fantasy SMN, this is the correct logical extension of what makes a SMN. now, if you argue about the playstyle. thats fine, you don't have to like it. However saying old SMN vibe and aesthetic is indicative of what a SMN is opens your opinion to scrutiny.

Just say, you like the way it played before. Don't say it's aesthetic is wrong when it's probably the most aesthetically faithful job next to dragoon, black mage, and white mage

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You say Black Mage is exceptionally faithful, but where's haste, all my debuffs, instant death spells, and scathe buffs? This "faithful" argument is thoroughly worthless every time it is brought up, because other jobs are not faithful in a variety of ways and succeed anyway because they aren't designed exceedingly poorly like new SMN is.

A video of the very first iteration of Summoner in the series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu2i5exh-tI

I'd say it's pretty spot on in terms of thematic design, and as some have mentioned above, Demi-Bahamut and Demi-Phoenix represent the later summons from FFX and onward where they join the fight or replace the party. It's strikingly similar to XIII's Eidolons, actually, who also were only present for a brief duration.

What I've said before and stand by is that new SMN is great fertile land for the job to grow. It's just unfortunate that it's a little too simple. It would have been better if the job could've been redesigned with a bit more substance into their rotation, but I'm more happy than I am disappointed.

Omg I feel like these summoner posts need to go to reddit at this point. Brining a thread from 17 days ago back up.

The Job changed from complaints over years. You got what you wanted. change. Well this is what they have to offer.
I personally love it. Simple sure, but not every job needs to be complicated.
This is a good ground work. But by no means does it need to go back to a dot class / 6 min rotation and crap pet AI.
If you don't like it play something else. RDM is now god mode. This is just beating a dead horse non stop threads. Its like back to square one again.
A lot of ppl didn't like the older one for years and complain.
They give you a TOTAL rework. complain. I don't see a solution for ppl that plays this class. Or if they can offer one.

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Originally Posted by DES_VII

Omg I feel like these summoner posts need to go to reddit at this point. Brining a thread from 17 days ago back up.

The Job changed from complaints over years. You got what you wanted. change. Well this is what they have to offer.
I personally love it. Simple sure, but not every job needs to be complicated.
This is a good ground work. But by no means does it need to go back to a dot class / 6 min rotation and crap pet AI.
If you don't like it play something else. RDM is now god mode. This is just beating a dead horse non stop threads. Its like back to square one again.
A lot of ppl didn't like the older one for years and complain.
They give you a TOTAL rework. complain. I don't see a solution for ppl that plays this class. Or if they can offer one.

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Well thanks for bumping all these SMN post with your replies... Enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Well thanks for bumping all these SMN post with your replies... Enjoy.

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No problem. Now make a another thread on the same subject and make the whole "DPS Role" page just SMN. <3

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Originally Posted by DES_VII

Omg I feel like these summoner posts need to go to reddit at this point. Brining a thread from 17 days ago back up.

The Job changed from complaints over years. You got what you wanted. change. Well this is what they have to offer.
I personally love it. Simple sure, but not every job needs to be complicated.
This is a good ground work. But by no means does it need to go back to a dot class / 6 min rotation and crap pet AI.
If you don't like it play something else. RDM is now god mode. This is just beating a dead horse non stop threads. Its like back to square one again.
A lot of ppl didn't like the older one for years and complain.
They give you a TOTAL rework. complain. I don't see a solution for ppl that plays this class. Or if they can offer one.

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Because SE needs to stop with half ass reworks and making every job brain dead with little creativity.

And I really do not understand why you people expect that this is solid foundation for this failure to grow. Ignoring all the trends in SE design, all the proof that healers, mch, and drk literally got nothing in this expansion... WE ARE LEVEL 90! The foundation is supposed to be set by level 60. I'll be fine if the job needed fine tuning or a job mechanic just didn't work out with playerbase but this job is just awfully designed. Like the job literally just upgrades each action after a point, and the one ability that the people that love job is locked until lvl86 and it still doesn't add anything to job.

Summons and pet actions can still ghost
Job is barely a caster anymore
Still spamming a single attack
Aetherflow is even more disjointed from the job
Utility is garbage with low dps
Phoenix is a DPS lost once it is learned
Actively pentalized for having too much spell speed
Carby is a hinderance
No in depth mechanics
Rotation literally revolves one button

If y'all like to settle on garbage then settle on garbage but I think it's just shameful for a company that knew the job needed a rework since 4.x and this is the best they could do

Edit: phoenix is now stronger than bahamut slightly in single target