Summoner doesn't feel like it Summons.

[Cheshire_Katzen]

For background I've mained Summoner since I started a little over a year ago, so I do not have any reference for it through its iterations.

This is mostly just from my observations and feelings, so it's just my opinion but I was curious if this rings with anyone else.

So with the new Summoner I want to start with what I like, because there's quite a bit to the rework and I just like to start with the good news. The new animations look visually stunning. It's such a pretty class to play. Also the buffs to DPS for abilities has increased the damage output amazingly. It just burns through enemy HP like a wildfire. This is mostly because everything was buffed to make up for the lack of DoTs which I think is a good trade. While I'll miss the dots the damage they'd do has been more than made up for. Also our Carbuncle can just shield us whenever which is a nice defense mechanic for immediate help instead of the previous Summon Titan-Egi and then wait for them to cast the Shield, which while nice didn't help for sudden Oh-Nos during combat.

However these boons have replaced what made a Summoner, a Summoner. Yes we have the animation of Summoning, but we don't summon anything other than a Carbuncle/Egi that can buff us or our team, only when we're not using other spells. We "Summon" our Egis/Primals to do an attack... then they leave and we have access to new spells that we cast. So by that reason it's not a Summon, it's a casting a spell to enhance our other spells. Yes we Summon Bahamut and Phoenix, but that's it now. For the most part we're just a Black Mage 2.

Before we had actual Summons that casted abilities from themselves when we told them to. They would stay with us and attack our foes. They were minor but fun and I had to choose which Summon was best for my scenario, be it Garuda for AoEs to deal with adds, Ifrit for bosses. and Titan for a more defensive play. When I chose one of their abilities it was cast from them not from me. They were an actual companion with me in combat. There was thought that went into the gameplay. Now each Egi-Cast does the exact same thing once and then leaves and just alters how quickly your spells, that you cast, attack/how much damage they do. So they really don't matter that much. It can mostly be summed up as cast as many spells that aren't on CD yet. So this fun, class that required a little thought is just mind numbingly simple and... you just cast really pretty spells while your Carbuncle(Or Egi if you changed it) does pretty much as much as a Minion since you only need it out to cast your other spells in which case it just disappears during that time.

[Cheshire_Katzen]

I'm not looking to fight, and I know a lot of people are happy with the rework and I know the rework is really powerful and pretty... it just... doesn't feel like a Summoner anymore and that really kinda makes me sad because I love Summoning in games. I love the feeling of having a powerful companion/eidolon by my side as we dive into combat casting spells and fighting together. And it's that together part that's missing now. Maybe this changes at level 90. But until I hit that level, which I will because I hope things do change... Anyways, I'm mostly posting this to see if anyone else feels the same way or if I'm just alone in this thought.

[Zordrage]

Summons are more like just some very detailed Visual effects that shows that you switched to a different spell kit lol

[Saimeren]

How did they work in previous Final Fantasy games? You summoned them, they came out to do a big hit then disappeared.

I like that we attune to our Summons. It makes me feel like I'm actually borrowing their power for myself.

[Xiozen]

I do not have any reference for it through its iterations

...says it all. Final Fantasy summoner, old school final fantasy summoner was like this... the summon appears, does a massive attack and disappears. You rinse and repeat. FFXI online summoner job kept the summons out, with a slow drip-drip of MP to maintain the summon...allowing for you to actually play alongside your avatar. FFXIV having the summons appear and perform it's attack and vanish is the original smn concept and execution. Soooooo, perhaps a little research before posting something like this may be in order here. Just my 2-cent

[ArcaneCarbuncle]

...says it all. Final Fantasy summoner, old school final fantasy summoner was like this... the summon appears, does a massive attack and disappears. You rinse and repeat. FFXI online summoner job kept the summons out, with a slow drip-drip of MP to maintain the summon...allowing for you to actually play alongside your avatar. FFXIV having the summons appear and perform it's attack and vanish is the original smn concept and execution. Soooooo, perhaps a little research before posting something like this may be in order here. Just my 2-cent

Yuna also had permanent summons, and FFXII and XIII featured summons as temporary allies.
Let's not act as if permanent summons would be breaking any rules, the Franchise has been moving towards more permanent and interactive concepts of summoning for 20 years now; it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

[Nothv13]

Yuna also had permanent summons, and FFXII and XIII featured summons as temporary allies.
Let's not act as if permanent summons would be breaking any rules, the Franchise has been moving towards more permanent and interactive concepts of summoning for 20 years now; it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

And then 15 was summon shows up and does massive damage and leaved. They largely choose what will fit the system/story they are going for.

[ArcaneCarbuncle]

And then 15 was summon shows up and does massive damage and leaved. They largely choose what will fit the system/story they are going for.

In XV Summons were also entirely out if the players control, and thus aren't much of an actual gameplay concept.
But yes, you're correct in that they choose whatever concept fits the game they appear in. I mainly take issue with the constant narrative of "Summoner must be X way cause Y game did them like this" when Summoner existed in quite a few different ways throughout history. Its reductive, so I chose to speak my mind on it.

Point being, the old version - wether people liked it or not -was just as much Summoner as the current version is, and OP isn't wrong in feeling how they feel. It's preference, and people should start treating it as such instead of constantly arguing their opinion is superior.
Just my humble opinion on it.

[AceofRains]

Yuna also had permanent summons, and FFXII and XIII featured summons as temporary allies.
Let's not act as if permanent summons would be breaking any rules, the Franchise has been moving towards more permanent and interactive concepts of summoning for 20 years now; it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

It was already said but it’s worth repeating. Let’s not pretend that we didn’t already have permanent summons that had way too many problems. Also if you really want to compare to X, XII, and XII… in 10, in some fights it was more optimal just to Grand Summon and Dismiss than to keep fighting with the Summon. In 12 and 13 your summons were on a limited time, with 12 having that ideal walk around with your pet that you seem to want, while in 13 if you Summoned you were probably in a story situation or were about to make a finishing gambit on the boss.

[Wayfinder3]

Yuna also had permanent summons, and FFXII and XIII featured summons as temporary allies.
Let's not act as if permanent summons would be breaking any rules, the Franchise has been moving towards more permanent and interactive concepts of summoning for 20 years now; it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

To be fair, Yuna's Summons are more in line with how the Demi's Function. Also be careful what you ask for, because asking for permanent summons is like asking for ninja posions where you pick the best one for the fight and never switch (ifrit egi) was basically this for the jobs entire life span. Then people complain they want to switch summons around, SE gave us that. Every minute you cycle through 4 pets with the Demi switching every other minute. This is thematically perfect for SMN, Yuna couldn't just switch between summons while one was out, and the 13 primals got a limited amount of actions before disappearing which is just like how the demi's function.

Thematically, this is perfection. It captures an aspect of every version of SMN, variety, and frequency. im not saying you have to like it, but it's incorrect to list yuna and eidolons as something different than what the smn's are already doing