Alot of hate on new job iterations o.O

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Originally Posted by Blanchimont

The slowdown on Monk was one of the most frequent complaints in SB and they never did anything about it.

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some people complained, but that doesn't explain why people are less satisfied now, if that was really the main problem with the class. It's one skill on a 90 second cool down. That does not make or break a class. Personally i liked weaving skills for big damage, and actually felt faster until i ran out of ogcds, but even if i didn't like it, i wouldn't say a class wasn't fun because of something that happens once every 90 seconds, that i don't even have to use if i really hate it.

the problem is, they no longer have cool/fun mechanics and synergies that the player is trying to achieve/pull off. All you are trying to do is maintain the same combo we learned in arr.

in SB it actually felt like you were in control of your gl, and you had a couple different mechanics to pull of for satisfying dmg.

imo, they could change riddle, but whatever change they make needs to be more interesting than +15% for a little while every 90 seconds. Also the idea that monks ultimate goal is just to be doing a basic 6 skill rotation 20% faster is never going to be as interesting as other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Physic

some people complained, but that doesn't explain why people are less satisfied now, if that was really the main problem with the class. It's one skill on a 90 second cool down. That does not make or break a class. Personally i liked weaving skills for big damage, and actually felt faster until i ran out of ogcds, but even if i didn't like it, i wouldn't say a class wasn't fun because of something that happens once every 90 seconds, that i don't even have to use if i really hate it.

the problem is, they no longer have cool/fun mechanics and synergies that the player is trying to achieve/pull off. All you are trying to do is maintain the same combo we learned in arr.

in SB it actually felt like you were in control of your gl, and you had a couple different mechanics to pull of for satisfying dmg.

imo, they could change riddle, but whatever change they make needs to be more interesting than +15% for a little while every 90 seconds. Also the idea that monks ultimate goal is just to be doing a basic 6 skill rotation 20% faster is never going to be as interesting as other jobs.

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Tbh this.

Monk does now feel like it’s a basic rotation on a shorter CD. And machinist is proof that SE can do a much better job catering towards that concept.

I don’t know where they missed the ball witb the job but they did. They need to just do one big rework on the job. Make it different. But I’m not sure monk will ever see that haha

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Originally Posted by Physic

the problem is, they no longer have cool/fun mechanics and synergies that the player is trying to achieve/pull off. All you are trying to do is maintain the same combo we learned in arr.

in SB it actually felt like you were in control of your gl, and you had a couple different mechanics to pull of for satisfying dmg.

imo, they could change riddle, but whatever change they make needs to be more interesting than +15% for a little while every 90 seconds. Also the idea that monks ultimate goal is just to be doing a basic 6 skill rotation 20% faster is never going to be as interesting as other jobs.

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This.

I feel like getting truly satisfying Riddles Of would largely require that the Fists Of stances are somehow interesting in themselves.
Once that's done, use Riddles Of to further those mechanics or offer each some sort of double-edged sword Monks can nonetheless exploit effectively.

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Originally Posted by Physic

some people complained, but that doesn't explain why people are less satisfied now, if that was really the main problem with the class. It's one skill on a 90 second cool down. That does not make or break a class. Personally i liked weaving skills for big damage, and actually felt faster until i ran out of ogcds, but even if i didn't like it, i wouldn't say a class wasn't fun because of something that happens once every 90 seconds, that i don't even have to use if i really hate it.

the problem is, they no longer have cool/fun mechanics and synergies that the player is trying to achieve/pull off. All you are trying to do is maintain the same combo we learned in arr.

in SB it actually felt like you were in control of your gl, and you had a couple different mechanics to pull of for satisfying dmg.

imo, they could change riddle, but whatever change they make needs to be more interesting than +15% for a little while every 90 seconds. Also the idea that monks ultimate goal is just to be doing a basic 6 skill rotation 20% faster is never going to be as interesting as other jobs.

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It actually explains a lot. Riddle of Fire was the main point of discussion because it was a buff, one that took away speed and hit at the core of the problem with the Monk class. With ShB, the Monk class has strayed even further. We now have Tornado Kick that eats all GL stacks, Riddle of Fire that takes away your GL speed unless Fists of Wind active, and Six-sided star puts all skills on 2x global cooldown even though it resets GL without the need to get hit. At this point, it is clear that speed isn't something that this class seems to be focused on anymore. This is on top of the fact that they have done nothing to help maintain GL stacks outside of raids. Riddle of Earth is useless since it requires you to take damage and some transitions are too long to even make that useful. Anatman is slightly more useful since it doesn't require you to get hit, but still useless outside of raids since it requires you to stand still.

In SB, Monk was strong and they focused on the numbers for their main argument. Their numbers showed how strong they were in many of the raids. But, the speed problem of Riddle of Fire was never addressed. It went ignored as the number of people who played Monk continued to dwindle and you started to hear less about it because the people who used to play Monk stopped playing it in exchange for a different class that was still similar, Samurai.

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Originally Posted by Drayos

Is there anyone who’s actually enjoying their job?? I seeing a lot of negativity on almost every job the game offers currently,

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I've been a SMN since 2.0 Beta and the only time I hated it was during 3.0 when it stop caring about pets.

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Originally Posted by Blanchimont

It actually explains a lot. Riddle of Fire was the main point of discussion because it was a buff, one that took away speed and hit at the core of the problem with the Monk class. With ShB, the Monk class has strayed even further. We now have Tornado Kick that eats all GL stacks, Riddle of Fire that takes away your GL speed unless Fists of Wind active, and Six-sided star puts all skills on 2x global cooldown even though it resets GL without the need to get hit. At this point, it is clear that speed isn't something that this class seems to be focused on anymore. This is on top of the fact that they have done nothing to help maintain GL stacks outside of raids. Riddle of Earth is useless since it requires you to take damage and some transitions are too long to even make that useful. Anatman is slightly more useful since it doesn't require you to get hit, but still useless outside of raids since it requires you to stand still.

In SB, Monk was strong and they focused on the numbers for their main argument. Their numbers showed how strong they were in many of the raids. But, the speed problem of Riddle of Fire was never addressed. It went ignored as the number of people who played Monk continued to dwindle and you started to hear less about it because the people who used to play Monk stopped playing it in exchange for a different class that was still similar, Samurai.

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RoF was also designed specifically with the intent of giving MNK enough time to double weave without clipping too badly, but it showcased the problem that Monk had too many superfluous skills bogging it down to show they needed a skill to slow the GCD down just to spend all the oGCDs. RoF doesn't need to slow the class down anymore, it just does because reasons.

But you hit upon a lot of important things. MNK was given a lot of QoL skills in ShB, but they also had a lot of QoL skills reduced or removed in ShB as well, so now all the QoL skills are 70+ except riddle of earth, which is a badly designed ability for other reasons, and between level 71 and 80, the only new thing MNK got that is actually fun is GL4. The class is fundamentally missing its "Kamehameha" and, no, elixir field doesn't count. It doesn't have a super attack to build for, it didn't get a single new ability it wants to regularly use, and as you said, it has abilities that directly compete with its design such as Tornado Kick. You literally don't need Tornado Kick anymore because bosses almost never jump for longer than 30 seconds anyways, and anantman will cover you for most jumps that most bosses do short of the final boss of Orbonne. So the class basically hasn't had a new fun thing since Heavensward and the players are rightfully mad that the class both feels disjointed and just is boring at this point. It wants and needs a Xenoglossy but all it got was fire 1 having a slightly longer AF duration, which is cool I guess, but boring.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I've been a SMN since 2.0 Beta and the only time I hated it was during 3.0 when it stop caring about pets.

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SMN never stopped caring about pets in 3.0, because 3.0's contagion hilariously broke the balance of the class when combined with the then-new DWT, TD, Raging Strikes, and in particularly feisty groups, things like Trick Attack. You had to micromanage contagion to hell and back to pull this off but if you did, contagion by itself could give you something like 1000 potency in extra DoT damage just from all the stacked buffs you're extending (in addition to the raw +15 seconds to every DoT). So I hesitate to understand how you believed they stopped caring about the pets in 3.0, since the pets were basically the same as 2.0 and you had vastly increased performance from micromanaging them.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

SMN never stopped caring about pets in 3.0, because 3.0's contagion hilariously broke the balance of the class when combined with the then-new DWT, TD, Raging Strikes, and in particularly feisty groups, things like Trick Attack. You had to micromanage contagion to hell and back to pull this off but if you did, contagion by itself could give you something like 1000 potency in extra DoT damage just from all the stacked buffs you're extending (in addition to the raw +15 seconds to every DoT). So I hesitate to understand how you believed they stopped caring about the pets in 3.0, since the pets were basically the same as 2.0 and you had vastly increased performance from micromanaging them.

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I highlighted my answer but I'm going to agree to disagree because I'm tried and don't even want to go into a lengthy debate about something that is irrelevant now. History happened and we moved forward.

As a MCH main I have a few complaints, l hate how spammy AOE are and how the only way to Restock on Battery skills is by Heat Blast which is kinda awkward and no AOE Heat Blast to pair up with Ricochet. I absolutely loath Wildfire and how mindless it is to get the desired result only to be outmatches by a Reassemble with a even longer cool down compared to what it used to be.

Correct me if I’m wrong but why doesn’t the Queen have a AOE?

I will never not main MCH for better or for worse and it probably got the best treatment of all the jobs which I love. Just getting abit too casual

Positivity? I like positivity.

New Machinist is incredibly good and fun and better than it ever was and flavorful and delightful and 100% the most enjoyable thing this game has ever had. I am in love with it.

New Samurai isn't very new but doubling up iaijutsu feels super awesome and single-target big Kenki hit is also tons of fun. Gimme bigger damage though.

New Dark Knight only really needs more defensive CDs and MP regen and I'll love it. As-is I still enjoy it at 70+.

Gunbreaker is fantastic-feeling.

New RDM isn't very new but it's just an improved version of old RDM and I can't be mad at that.

New MNK in PVP is tons of fun and the amount of times I've decimated groups who underestimated me is delightful. I'm gonna not say anything about PVE MNK here.

New BLM is just an even better BLM and that's tons of fun!

Seemingly unpopular opinion here, but I’m really liking Summoner right now. I haven’t had any difficulty managing egi-assaults and I found I can pump out really good numbers. Phoenix is amazing to use, and I really like that using Ruin actually feels impactful now. My only complaint is that Demi-Bahamut feels a bit awkward to use, but overall I’m enjoying the changes. I’ve heard a lot of complaints about us being a ruin mage, about having to stare at the hotbar constantly, about having to work far harder for mediocre output etc... but I haven’t noticed any of those things. I don’t doubt that people are having issues with the job design this expansion, but I don’t think the negative feedback is as widespread as the official forums would have you believe for any job. Remember the official forums sole purpose is for feedback, so negative criticism is far more prominently featured than it would be on another medium.