I can partly agree with Darkvalkyr (partly only because I didn't mention grinding and like I said I don't like doing it either): I did many adventures like that, testing my strength against different monsters, that at the same time granted me materials for crafting and experience points.
So the one I illustrated with pictures in the first post was indeed an Adventure for me and I enjoyed that day... but realizing that at the end of it I obtained almost half a level (of the final ones) wasn't what I was planning for my Pugilist, and I didn't really “feel” growing that much for slaying creatures 5-7 levels below mine.
That would have been OK for earlier levels, but half a level in the final levels, supposedly the hardest to conquer, means that if I decide to go on similar adventures against monsters of similar levels (5-7 below mine), I'd be level 50 in 5-6 runs, without actually wanting it (for the reasons I already explained).
Therefore, that's why I decided to halt my Pugilist until patch 1.21: if some other adventurer will offer me to go in a Stronghold, I'll have to refuse, considering the huge experience points I'd get there. That's what I've been doing with the “Lambs of Dalamud” event after realizing I was getting a lot of EXP, and going there only for The Whale's Gape. Those cultists chain like crazy!
But halting my Pugilist is not really a problem for me.
In the last weeks I and 2 other adventurers have been trying to find a group for the “Into the Dark” mission and I'm sure that will bring me to level 48 in such a fast way that I won't be able to fully feel the growth (of course, I'll enjoy the mission nonetheless).
I remember my early Journey (again, I'm not talking about grinding, or “fighting against always the same and same monsters”) to level my Pugilist, the battles during exploration, the adventures in the dungeons, like the Tam-Tara Deepcroft or the mines.
After level 40... Yeah, I remember the nice challenge offered by the Company Leves... but not much more. I think that the few times I occasionally spent getting some items for crafting made me level faster than I could imagine, that's why I can't remember well how I went from 40 to 47. In the past, the experience points received was less, so when I went to farm materials I was gaining EXP, yes, but not so much, so I could feel the growth more.
And in this Topic I've yet to read someone saying: “I went from 45 to 50 in one day and I enjoyed it.”, because that's what I was trying to discover, as my guess tells me it's not “fun” doing the final supposedly hardest levels so easily.
I think that my post was misinterpreted also because I used the word “journey”, that like I'm learning now after a research is apparently linked to “grinding” in MMORPGs. Here's a beautiful post of adventuress Kiara talking about it, although that's not exactly what I was referring to.
Anyway, it actually surprised me that many understood my real point and concern for new adventurers. Yeah, it wasn't a post simply asking “The EXP is too much, reduce it!” or “Give us a better journey (for grinding)”, hopefully the community reps will be capable of understanding it as well. :)
Lastly, let me end quoting this:
“There is no adventure in leveling up, there was no adventure in leveling up.”
Wrong! This is just a point of view, like mine.
We, as adventurers, can decide what is an Adventure for us. Maybe for you and others it wasn't an Adventure leveling up and it is what awaits you after reaching the max level, I can respect your play style, but for me, at least until the EXP started to overflow, it surely was.
I dedicated a long journal entry last year on one of my “personal adventures”, done during Hatching Tide, of which even now I've a Great memory.
I did Adventures like that even beyond seasonal events, of course, this is just as example. I got Experience Points and sometimes even actually leveled up, but it wasn't exaggerated EXP, it was fair for what I was doing (like it should be for monsters 5-7 levels below mine).
For Hatching Tide many probably just did: Get eggs => Get caps => Done!
Ever since I'm in Eorzea I create adventures and personal quests for myself, so I never ran out of things to do. But yeah, I don't expect many on this forum could even remotely understand this. ;)
The Company Leves are specifically designed for solo players or for those that don't spend much time in Eorzea, so the EXP for them could stay as it is, for the points explained by Quesse.
However, rushing to the max level for the endgame content, that will increase in the following patches, sure, but not in such an exponential way to give the already mastered Disciples of War/Magic something to do for months, will not make you really enjoy the adventure and the endgame content you're doing, not as much as you would have enjoyed if you earned the leveling up rather than doing the final 5 levels in one day. And with “earned” I don't mean to do it in one year, but not even in one day.
For those who don't create personal quests/adventures like I do, reducing the EXP received would maybe let you “feel” more that you're growing your adventurer (at the same time giving you a longer content), something that you can't possibly feel if you can potentially get the final levels in a few hours.
This, of course, always in my opinion. Like I said we'll see in the following months if my concern had some truth or not.
I must have forgotten that interview on ZAM where Yoshida-san talks about the experience points gained, so this apparently answers my questions, as they don't have any plan to bring a better balance to this.
In conclusion, I wasn't in Vana'diel, but while I was waiting for Eorzea I saw some videos of that world. I remember some nice big bad dragons, but it was only after landing in Eorzea that I stumbled across another video better than the others and that I liked the most:
Video: A story of Adventurers of times past
Even if I didn't understand many words in the subtitles, I understood the point of the video.
That Hyur adventurer forgot the true purpose of adventuring, rushed to max level, cleared most of the endgame contents, got the ultimate equipment... but he felt something was missing; while the Lalafell moved on with her Journey (not grinding!!! :D) and I'm positive she had a much better time than the Hyur, like he himself realized in the end.
I'm sure most of you already saw that video, but if you haven't, it's perfect to make understand better what I tried to say in my first post and what I probably said in a much more confusing way in this quickly written post now.
That should be it. :)
Au revoir!
The recent “All battle classes at level 50” trend – Plans to adjust the EXP received?
Printable View
-
02-07-2012, 03:00 AMOnizukaThe “Journey”
-
02-07-2012, 05:27 AMMachaI'm just saying what it looks like, even if they can't use the proper terminology, that's the only thing that sounds like it would remotely fit into that acronym.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
-
02-07-2012, 05:54 AMzaviermhigo
I remember the journey of slow action based exp, hating people for killing mobs to fast, not being able to use punishing barbs unless on crabs. SO MUCH FUN! /sarcasm
This isn't even the real FFXIV anymore, its the version we play until 2.0 comes out, who cares if everyone has all 50, if the experience increases until 99, only people who effing love leveling with get all 99. This game is fan service right now, realize that, its get all classes to 50, craft away, do w/e , we hope to attract new people in 2.0 and you will be as awesome as you choose in this version, but still more awesome then new people in 2.0.
Getting all battle class to 50 = http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...-here-meme.png No one really cares, due to inventory space you have choose certain classes/ levels anyway. 2.0 you're inventory goes down to 100, with mannequins and such, there are ways to limit how many classes/ jobs people actually play other than increasing the time it takes to level. you can also argue that if someone pays for extra retainers to play that many classes they deserve to play that many classes.
You also have to understand a lot of us weren't the awesome caught up "i'm so broken I quit xi" people. so now that we have a new game we'd like to be the people at the top, any ps3 people or new 2.0 people, we'll automatically be ahead of them. But we'd also like level sync when we want to play with new people and such. We want a real game to be ahead of the curve again, but leveling isn't the only way. think of those jps you could never catch up to in xi that had all main storyline missions done way before you, we're those people now, just open to all regions. -
02-07-2012, 01:48 PMJerichoI don't agree with this. Regardless of the time it takes, casual players WILL get their one or two classes they want up to max level. They'll suck it up and do the grind. All classes at max level should not be obtainable this easily. Only the hardest of the hardcore should be able to do it, and thats not the case now. They're a dime a dozen. What happens now is that the casuals are gimped for only having their one or two classes at max level, because being a casual gamer generally means you're going to specialize... And the ease of leveling means a hardcore gamer is going to have them all.Quote:
Originally Posted by jwang
** Edit **
Also not the case. Maat's caps (Paragon's Crown) were extremely rare until Abyssea. The grind encouraged specialization, which I believe also encouraged equality. 3-4 jobs at 75 didn't make you too much cooler than 1-2 jobs at 75, and even the most hardcore didn't really WANT to level many more than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by zaviermhigo
There's not a ton of skill in this game right now... Choose the guy that is really good at his 1 class, or the guy who'd pretty good at all 7 battle classes? Obviously, the one who can fill all the gaps, because the difference between really good and pretty good is insignificant. -
02-07-2012, 02:37 PMMikitaSadly, I don't think that is how many people want to play this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka
All classes at R50 is currently the destination, and a lot of people just want to get there as quickly as possible.
Cheesy comparison, I know... but this reminded me of Pixar's Cars.
The freeway came in and bypassed Route 66 so people could travel faster... but getting off the fast track gave so much more in terms of experiences and friendship.
Right now it's a bit too easy to get on the freeway inadvertently. -
02-07-2012, 04:01 PMChezen
Your post echoes my own thoughts OP. :)
I've been in no hurry to get to 50. One time a while back, I had joined a party, and before we went our separate ways the leader commented on the amount of xp gained. With no disrespect intended to him, I felt no such sense of accomplishment. When a level takes hours, I see no reason to be proud of it, myself.
As you put it, I play these games for the adventure, although I suppose I never thought it out that much before. I guess thats why endgame has held little interest for me. Typically, people expect you to have "studied up" for an endgame fight before stepping into it. Some have pushed developers to precision in the difficulty, having brought endgame battles down to a science for themselves. Macros, battlelogs, etc. I find no sense of adventure in that, personally. It's not that I don't try to "be the best at my game," but some people take all the fun out of it, in my opinion.
Just my 2 gil. :)
/happily swings sledgehammer and whistles "I'll be working on the railroad." -
02-07-2012, 07:44 PMMikitaMe too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chezen
I appreciate that people will have different priorities, different expectations, and different styles of play.
Considering that I have been playing 40~ hours per week since the start of FFXIV and I only have 2 classes at R50, people have sometimes offered to help me level faster. But I have politely declined all invitations to Power Level because that is not for me. I would get to the end faster... but once there I might actually get bored.
I didn't know what I wanted when I started, since this is really the first game I've ever played (online or offline).Quote:
As you put it, I play these games for the adventure, although I suppose I never thought it out that much before. I guess thats why endgame has held little interest for me. Typically, people expect you to have "studied up" for an endgame fight before stepping into it. Some have pushed developers to precision in the difficulty, having brought endgame battles down to a science for themselves. Macros, battlelogs, etc. I find no sense of adventure in that, personally. It's not that I don't try to "be the best at my game," but some people take all the fun out of it, in my opinion.
Just my 2 gil. :)
/happily swings sledgehammer and whistles "I'll be working on the railroad."
I feel lucky that I have friends who like end game content (I do too because it requires teamwork) but who do not put any pressure on party members to only play certain classes, have all abilities, certain gear, or to have studied beforehand. We will often do Ifrit and Moogle fights with "non-standard" party mixes, and we never use parsers, never pressure people to play a certain way or tell them what to do.
We wiped so many times at Memento because we stayed away from How To guides. I think the biggest hint we took was simply the knowledge about what needed to be done to survive Memento.
And we still find the fights challenging. We wipe fairly regularly and that does not come without frustration, but it also makes the victories very fulfilling. Our first Moogle win was like a dream come true. ^^ -
02-07-2012, 07:48 PMMatsumeStill no reply...Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsume
Where did you get this informaion...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Antanias
-
02-08-2012, 05:41 AMLeowilde
OP: Thank you! Glad I'm not alone with the same opinion. :) The journey is the game, not the end of it.
-
02-08-2012, 07:45 AMNullieI've read and reread your main post and I still don't understand you. Maybe I never will. I do not get this Journey you speak of and if its wrong of me to then its ok. I've had fun playing this game and that is it. This game will not leave me with touching memories that bring a tear to my eye. Its a game to me. I will not look back years from now and think "Gee I sure miss that awesome journey I made. I cannot wait to tell my children about it." I can't tell if you want everyone to go about the course you do or if you want them to try, but to me it is all just data stored on a server that I will eventually quit one day to move onto other things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka
Yes, I have the dow/m's maxed and I don't care. I've had my own fun this entire game. I still have other things I can do. Shoot I guess I should make a journey to become the goldsmith master. How should I go about doing this? Really, I don't have a problem if you want a journey in your game. If you want the memories thats fine. If you want to write it in a diary go for it.
Ok, good I agree with you there. If that is the case what do you want to happen exactly? Then you sayQuote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka
Who are you to tell me I will not enjoy myself? Because I have been. It doesn't matter to me if I earned it 5 days from now or 5 months from now. It will be the same feeling to me. Which is "ooo. yay. I gained a level." Maybe a journey to someone is making their own contents like "Challenge yourself and get to so and so point in so much days."Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka
You know to be honest this part I'm having the hardest time trying to figure out. If you want to make your own personal quest/adventures sure go for it. Do you have to stop doing these when you hit 50? Can't you just continue your journey and your memories and not make it about exp? I mean why does it have to end there if you're having so much fun with your journey?Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka
When I played 11 I missed out on a lot of content. Mostly because by the time I started playing there was too much stuff to do and no one who wanted to do it. I did not have fun and I end up quitting the game. I could not even get past the first level cap. I went to the past and seen tons of people there. I never got the chance to experience that and I don't want to miss it here. Here as it is now I've had the chance to experience everything that has come to be and have enjoyed it. Your journey might be important to you and others, but my enjoyment is more important to me.