DRKs just falling behind even more.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

DRKs say they can't "self heal" like PLD can. Isn't TBN sort of like a self-heal in that it gives you a 10% HP stoneskin? It's more preventative than Clemency, but the principle is similar, converting MP into HP (or rather in this case, a shield), and your DPS combo grants HP to boot. Maybe they should add some HP drain to Bloodspiller?

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It's 20% actually but its not the crux of the matter. Spamming TBN is fine and all until you realize that spamming TBN for defense is no different than Spamming Dark Arts for every skill. Dark Knight is a one trick pony, offensive or defensive.

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Originally Posted by Delily

This was a response to the other image someone posted about a PF locked to just WAR and PLD. That was a single image. Most of the other entries specified either PLD or WAR, by the way. Before we go on about how DRKs are getting locked out of content, make sure it's really happening.

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This same argument goes both ways, being dramatic about being ostracized (happening or otherwise) or pedantic of the contrary is equally moot. It basically comes to "proving a negative". But we can drop it there.

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Originally Posted by Delily

The main issue is that SE designed the WAR to be the "high damage" tank and the PLD is the "high defense" tank. That doesn't leave much room for a third option, unlike healing and damage dealing which have a myriad of options. Our core identity is based off using Dark Arts to modify our skills, the idea being we're supposed to choose if we want to use our MP or not for some benefit. The problem is that there is very little reason to do that. I'm just as frustrated by you with SE's apparent inability or unwillingness to address the problems. The 4.2 WAR changes were a surprise to me, up until that point, I wasn't aware WAR needed anything. However, screaming that we're being locked out of high end content isn't going to help much because SE has the data.

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I think there's more options than we willingly see. DRK can expand plenty on damage and defense. Again, we can agree to disagree but we both know that DRK is in a bad spot and needs attn in regards to its caveats.

Stating that SE has the data is rather moot too. SE had the data all of 3.x about how PLD wasn't used and 2 years later they fixed PLD. The matter here is that they are letting sleeping dogs lie until 5.x where DRK can get an overhaul and that would be fine, until they showed us they can overhaul jobs in a iterative patch without waiting until the next expansion. I am aware that just because they can doesn't mean they always should, but with the reduced content overall on every odd patch, I hardly see resources poured somewhere else when there are things with a higher priority.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

Can't self heal like a WAR or PLD can. LAWL 19-20k equilibrium.
Can't push out dps like a WAR OR PLD(Even with PLD nerf lawl).
Can't do group utility like a WAR and PLD can.
Don't have good mitigation like a WAR and PLD does.

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Don't forget that DRK sucks at holding aggro, especially in Alliance Raids... seriously they need to rework DRK SO MUCH to where it actually feels like it deserves to be a tank rather than a glorified DPS that wears plate armor and needs to the maiming gear like DRG...

I doesn't mean a whole lot but here is an observation that seems kind of telling...

PLD has 29 abilities and 6 traits

WAR has 27 abilities and 5 traits

DRK has 24 abilities and 5 traits.

Don't get me wrong more button mashing (or rather more abilities that we have to DA to be of any use at all) is not what drk needs just thought that mimics the state of DRK IE: To little DPS, Too little Defensive Cool Downs, Too little raid utility.

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Originally Posted by Ortheri

DRK has 24 abilities and 5 traits.

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Honestly, this can realistically be reduced to 22 Abilities. Traits don't mean much as they tend to get folded into the abilities come expansion and just sort of serve as "Hey this is what happened to you!"

Unmend and Unleash are effectively rendered moot with Abyssal Drain, outside level sync reasons.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Honestly, this can realistically be reduced to 22 Abilities. Traits don't mean much as they tend to get folded into the abilities come expansion and just sort of serve as "Hey this is what happened to you!"

Unmend and Unleash are effectively rendered moot with Abyssal Drain, outside level sync reasons.

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Actually make that 20, Dark Passenger and Sole Survivor are pretty much useless.

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Originally Posted by kashi11

Actually make that 20, Dark Passenger and Sole Survivor are pretty much useless.

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Dark Arts Dark Passenger is a DPS gain at 2 or more targets and Sole Survivor, while a bit underwhelming, is still free HP and MP in aoe or any fight with adds.

Hopefully, if we make more memes and shitpost about DRK, they'll fix it.

Unfortunately, I feel that may be our only hope.

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Originally Posted by wrightofway

Dark Arts Dark Passenger is a DPS gain at 2 or more targets...

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I've been seeing this cited quite a few times...
It's a small DPS gain for something you have to sacrifice a LOT to do, and in most situations with 2+ targets you have a lot of other things going on in order to be the most effective tank you can be. If everything is performed at the absolute optimum level, then yes, you can burn some MP on Dark Passenger...I certainly have if I've got my blood weapon + quietus overflow working well. But the fact remains that it's still MP one could use on Blackest Night, Dark Mind, Abyssal Drain...and especially Abyssal Drain.
So yes, what you said is technically true, but that is obscuring a lot of other factors that make it a really ridiculously niche skill, especially considering it pretty much was the first iconic Dark Knight ability in the history of Final Fantasy.

Further, even if your statement is true (given a lot of caveats) this does not mean these skills shouldn't be given care to help refine the class as the game evolves. That I think is my biggest pet peeve when these Dark Knight counter statements crop up. Does Dark Knight, let alone any class, deserve to just rot in stasis? Things can be overpowered or underpowered as times change, but this stagnation is just sad.

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Originally Posted by wrightofway

Dark Arts Dark Passenger is a DPS gain at 2 or more targets and Sole Survivor, while a bit underwhelming, is still free HP and MP in aoe or any fight with adds.

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What good is 20% of your HP/MP returned to you at the end of the pull?

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Originally Posted by wrightofway

Dark Arts Dark Passenger is a DPS gain at 2 or more targets and Sole Survivor, while a bit underwhelming, is still free HP and MP in aoe or any fight with adds.

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Not worth the 4800 drain IMO.