Tank Scaling still a massive issue

Idk wat the fuk se is thinkinking. This is not what we wanted

If tenacity wasn't so bad, no one would be complaining about the loss of dps from strength.
But it is. And so, we must.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

people, as usual, are jumping to conclusions. They see only 2 str difference between 20 item levels and immediately extrapolate that to mean that the sky is falling... again.

The order of events are as follows:

- Tanks focus on DPS for an entire expansion, mainly due to poor savage raid design / overtuning
- 4.0 releases and SE makes it so STR accessories are not usable by tanks 61 and up.
- Tanks get mad at this and don't like their deeps, also claim they can't hold threat without STR accessories. They continue to wear the i270 STR accessories.
- SE patches threat - increasing it a lot
- Tanks STILL use i270 weapons, state that it's because of some alleged meta they have to follow. Many healers lament.
- Tanks suggest, among other things, adding STR to Fending accessories, even admit that lower STR than DPS classes is fine.
- SE patches and adds STR to fending accessories.
- Tanks once again complain that they think it's not enough.

Come ON people. We have no idea how they will scale STR on future accessories. We only know what we can see. Stop complaining for a goddamn minute. Hell, YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED!

As others have posted, it looks like it will take hundreds of item levels for the differences people are assuming will occur are felt... if ever. People are not considering how secondary stats play into it. People are STILL saying they will use STR accessories...

I just don't understand this Tank forum sometimes =/

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Well......maybe that is because you are a DPS.

Lowering our attack power to be FAR lower than it used to be relative to the DPS roles did massively effect enmity.

In 3.xx, assuming I wasn't outgeared, I never had problems holding enmity after an initial aggro combo. When I hit 70 in SB it was unreal how Samurai and Red mage could climb the charts on me. No one wants to use diversion (because "lul, don't be so bad tank"). Putting i270 slaying accessories changed all that, and felt damn good doing it.

STR on fending accessories needed to happen. I would have preferred this to the lame ass 3.xx "fix" but this is too low. They need to have 50% of the VIT to start out and then go up from there if necessary. This was just too low of a point to start from. It is like they don't even try.

This is a serious question, has SE replaced the entire ff14 team? 2.x and 3.x had their issues but with 4.x it seems like SE lacks even the most fundamental, lowest level knowledge of how to make an mmo. The balance in the game right now is almost an insult, so much so they had to implement a hard restriction on taking multiple of the same job to a fight. That right there is a flat out admission they have not the slightest clue what they're doing.

Their design philosophy of tanks is nothing short of schizophrenic. I assume this scaling is to try to force more tank stance usage, and yet to get people to use their stance more is the easiest thing in the world. Lower healer potencies and increase boss damage. They sit there and design a game around maximizing dps, as part of the design they make enmity and defense fairly low priority, and then keep saying "hey guys, stop dpsing."

They seem to have lost all creativity with SB and have no idea what they're doing anymore. The things going on go far beyond simple mistakes and the impossibility of achieving true perfect balance. It really is starting to make me wonder what is going on there.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

- Tanks get mad at this and don't like their deeps, also claim they can't hold threat without STR accessories.

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Which is probaly because most of them refuse to use their tank stance and/or their enmity combo without having the skill to pull that properly.

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Originally Posted by Falar

Well......maybe that is because you are a DPS.

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Sigh. 317 RDM and 314 DRK. I'm a Tank. Is my statement any more valid?

To your point, I'm sure no tank would balk at MORE str... But starting low and going high it's better than starting high and going low... Both from a development standpoint and a pr standpoint. Nerfing str later would likely cause some here to have a brain aneurysm.

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Originally Posted by Harz

Another issue here is that this makes pentamelded crafted BiS for tanks because HQ crafted has 40 strength and 5 slots to meld more strength and then a bunch of crit/direct hit.

Why are tanks the only role that has to shell out an inordinate amount of gil and materia just to be optimal?

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Good point.

Usually pentamelds fall short since they have so much less mainstat.

Here, it is likely to be the same or no change so the way to go will be just like you said--STR in the primary slot, then all DH.

Can't wait to see the first tier of crafted gear, should be....i320 if the formula follows. At this rate I wish they would allow advanced melding of primary stats again.

If they did that, I would STFU immediately about the low # of strength they put on our gear.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

Sigh. 317 RDM and 314 DRK. I'm a Tank. Is my statement any more valid?

To your point, I'm sure no tank would balk at MORE str... But starting low and going high it's better than starting high and going low... Both from a development standpoint and a pr standpoint. Nerfing str later would likely cause some here to have a brain aneurysm.

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Starting at 70-80% would have been high, sure.

I don't understand why they didn't do 50%. But hey, maybe you're right, we could end up there eventually. But I have my doubts.

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Originally Posted by BlackironTarkus

Never has this been my stance. If you look at the thread instead of just trying to relegate me to another "hurrr dps tank like" half the of so fondly likes to do, you'd see I don't want us to do as much as a dps, I'm advocating to keep us at a permanent fixed percentage behind dps damage so that they won't have to keep going in and screwing with tank damage or patching in enmity buffs like they have been since the start of heavensward.

The current state of things means that dps will get better at damage faster than tanks do, they have a better rate of return on their gear upgrades. It's unsustainable.

Try actually reading my responses and position on the topic or just fully read the original post before you go shooting off about "oh you're just whining about not being able to big dick dps while you tank".

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Oh I've read your posts. And there all the same, pointless waste of time. You keep harping over this being about being able to stay ahead of the DPS in terms of emnity but the fact is emnity is a joke. Is it not now nor ever will be a thing we will worry about. The fact that I can stay in DPS stance and never do a single emnity combo and still never lose threat is more than enough to show that.

But sure, let's keep trying the "I'm not looking for DPS" tactic. There's bound to be a bunch of fools here to follow your lead. If you have a single issue with threat then the problem isn't with the class it's with you as a player. Tank damage means NOTHING unless they put in another fight where tank and healer damage matters, which they have already stated was a mistake and won't be doing again. DPS can get better than us by more than 10 times the damage and we still would not face many issues holding threat. The simple fact is currently emnity is a flat out joke. Past the first 10 seconds of a pull there is no dps that will pull off a tank unless hes dead.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

The balance in the game right now is almost an insult

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Lol. Right. So I guess the people testing all 3 tanks today and showing them all within 1% of each other shows how bad they are at balancing then right? It's actually very closely balanced right now.

While people are worrying about the str scaling, I'm more concerned about the HP scaling. There will be a point where HP inflation will be a thing, my guess around 4.3 - 4.4 and SE needs to address it now. Enmity is not an issue if you know how to hold it and with the rise of HP you will see more tanks tanking in their dps stance. As a war main I know I will be experimenting with how much I can get away with. Even more so with Unchained openers.