Dam. meter

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

If it was offered up politely and in a constructive way? Probably. But it sounds like the parser was used to number shame and bully them. I really hope they reported that person, because that is the very reason Yoshi-P has stated why we won't get parsers. Cause more people will use it to number shame people rather then offer actual advice and constructive criticism.

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I agree, but do keep context in mind. If someone is in Haukke Manor, playing badly is expected.

If you join an Extreme Primal Farm party (which this example was) and put out bad numbers... You're beyond the point of being new and needing some help. You have willingly gone into content where you know it is expected that you perform at a high level, and you are not being a team player.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

I agree, but do keep context in mind. If someone is in Haukke Manor, playing badly is expected.

If you join an Extreme Primal Farm party and put out bad numbers... You're beyond the point of being new and needing some help. You have willingly gone into content where you know it is expected that you perform at a high level, and you are not being a team player.

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While I agree to a point, I still stand by my point, that if you are gonna bring people's parser numbers up, do so politely, in a way that is actually helpful. Not to shame them. Joining an EX primal does not give people the right to harass, bully, and abuse other players over their numbers. And personally so far (Calm down, I am not saying that my experience represents all of the pro-parser camp or all who use parsers. Just giving perspective.) I've seen far more people use a parser to number shame, bully, and harass people. So I can wholly see where Yoshi comes from on that respect.

I am sure some use parsers to help inform people where to improve and good on them for that. But overall, I can't get behind the idea of parsers, but that's me and my opinions. It's a difficult thing to balance out, do we introduce a parser for the handful of people who would use it to actually help people and risk the horde of people who will use it to be a troll? Or do we just not introduce it? Again, these thoughts are colored by my experiences and I'm sure for some its different.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

While I agree to a point, I still stand by my point, that if you are gonna bring people's parser numbers up, do so politely, in a way that is actually helpful. Not to shame them. Joining an EX primal does not give people the right to harass, bully, and abuse other players over their numbers. And personally so far (Calm down, I am not saying that my experience represents all of the pro-parser camp or all who use parsers. Justgiving perspective.) I've seen far more people use a parser to number shame, bully, and harass people. So I can wholly see where Yoshi comes from on that respect.

I am sure some use parsers to help inform people where to improve and good on them for that. But overall, I can't get behind the idea of parsers, but that's me and my opinions. It's a difficult thing to balance out, do we introduce a parser for the handful of people who would use it to actually help people and risk the horde of people who will use it to be a troll? Or do we just not introduce it? Again, these thoughts are colored by my experiences and I'm sure for some its different.

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This, and I am sure helpful people can tell without prasers anyway, so it is not needed. Today is a good example, a level 60 roulette in ARF. My friend noticed right away this BLM needed some advice in rotations. So after trying to bring it up lightly and seeing they are accepting to advice (not defensive in a toxic way) she gave them pointers and a com at the end for it, and getting coms as DPS is a bit harder since people auto com healer or tank more.

Yeah right.. so there are more like that one paladin in A10s calling the other 7 players in the party being stupid because he didn't want to bother with the tether during the spinning boss so he could attack add once or twice, thus improving his damage.. when being called out, he gave us his fflogs saying he's in the right..

Everyone who wants to parse is already parsing. What people are really asking for is a means to enforce others to parse, erroneously thinking this will somehow bridge the player skill gap.

Lazy people are going to be lazy whether or not there's an in-game meter telling you how lazy you are. I'm perfectly fine with the status quo re: parsers, we need more effective in-game teaching methods (Hall of the Intermediate, Class/Job quests designed to teach you how to use your skills a la the NIN Mudra quests).

As far as PS4 players go... That's not an easy fix any way you slice it.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

I've seen far more people use a parser to number shame, bully, and harass people. So I can wholly see where Yoshi comes from on that respect.

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Your experience actually mirrors mine, but I have some personal insight into why, as I have a crystal ball, and it actually boils down to them not being allowed.

It's not worth bringing up a parse in chat nicely, because even the nicest mention can still get reported. I've seen it. So, it's never worth the risk to tell someone their numbers are low. All of the polite criticism that I and others would love to bring up has to stay unsaid, or we risk a ban.

Unfortunately then, the only times I actually see it are when someone is upset and they snap, making the bad decision to call someone out rudely.

It really sucks.

Might I ask, why are people so insistent on having an in-game parser anyway?
Why not just use a 3rd party parser?

(Besides PS4 reasons)

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Originally Posted by ShinMetsu

Might I ask, why are people so instant on an in-game parser anyway?
Why not just use a 3rd party parser?

(Besides PS4 reasons)

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while I prefer ps4 less upgrades to worry about I liked pc for at least the third party option , but now im on p24 and dont have the option to do anything so half the base is possibly ps4 and they shouldnt be punished

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Originally Posted by ShinMetsu

Might I ask, why are people so instant on an in-game parser anyway?
Why not just use a 3rd party parser?

(Besides PS4 reasons)

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So that you can mention it and not get reported for using illegal add-ons.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

This, and I am sure helpful people can tell without prasers anyway, so it is not needed.

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I think tanks and healers get comms more because their job is more obvious to critique, and thus may be seen as more stressful. If we had parser you'd probably see DD get more comms than now, also in general I imagine people would learn how to play their job better sooner since they'd know where they stood and what was expected in a tangible way. Without having a detailed breakdown of your performance it is hard to know just how bad/different you are compared to someone else. Key take away I got while watching a popular warrior guide maker on youtube, he was talking about how important it was for him to have it installed to improve and how he thought he was doing just fine until he had it installed to tell him the truth.

At the moment their job is pretty anonymized (DD), I mean you can watch and give tips as you said but it requires you to /watch/ them, some things hard to see, and which of course requires content or a job that allows you that privilege. Bad healer/tank far more obvious than a bad DD due to all eyes on them and near no eyes allowed on DD, as well as the standard of quality being required higher (you could have your DD afk in some dungeons and make it out with healer/tank combo, that doesn't mean they should though, meanwhile your tank/healer afk most likely the content will never finish).

I also think the lack of ability to easily reference the problem (again tank/healer you can, better at least) makes it so people get more "telling me I did something wrong, even if polite, is harassment" something I found far less often in WoW.. but we all knew who was doing poorly then because more than half the group had it on and one person was probably pasting to chat after certain fights.