Forbidden Materia, meant for the hardcore or just the lucky?

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Originally Posted by grandm

in short the reason not so many ppl are, "up in arms" as you put it. is because as new content is released, it is released with new and better gear, new content bring better gear that makes old gear obsolete, there is no reason to believe what is to come in the future won't be better than materia. materia came after the dungeons that are out so it is better. but 1.21 will have newer stuff that will be better again. if not then complain

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They will not release gear that is better than gear with materia. If they do, noone will meld anymore. They will add more rare/ex gear for sure, but they will also come up with new normal gear that, when melded with 2 or so tiers of materia will become better.

The system is broken right now, there is no skill involved, only luck and gil. Like someone already said, the only way to have the best gear in the game right now is if you have lots of gil, which is RMT heaven.

I hope they either change this to something Meowie or someone else suggested, quest or HNM which drop certain key items that give you a materia slot, or something else that removes this gil sink out of the equation and replaces it with a time sink.

Hmm, I'd disagree that long term time investments are not hardcore. While I disagree with the way materia has been introduced, it does still retain the time sink aspect that many hardcore players look for. Unless, of course, you're the lucky .0001% of the community and go 1/1 on M5 meld.

It's not just difficult content that constitutes hardcore. If that was the case, it would seem to imply that casual content is easy, which isn't the case. The time it takes to be rewarded, though, directly relates to what type of player it's made for.

Take FFXI relics for example. Although they were created for only the most hardcore players, there was nothing difficult about them. All that was required was shouting in Jeuno/Whitegate for months (much like I'll be doing with materia) and getting lucky on a few NMs. The NMs were like clockwork for shells that regularly did them. Sure, they may have been difficult for the first Linkshells attempting them, but as time passed and strategies were formed, it just became routine.

So while I do like the idea of multiple materia melds requiring hard boss fights, there still needs to be more to it. Eventually these fights will become a joke and would be spammed much like all other content we've seen so far. But whatever that extra part of it is, the final item should represent the effort put into making it.

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Originally Posted by Abauge_Goga

I hope they either change this to something Meowie or someone else suggested, quest or HNM which drop certain key items that give you a materia slot, or something else that removes this gil sink out of the equation and replaces it with a time sink.

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It's not even a gil sink because the gil goes to other players rather than disappearing from circulation. Still, it's incredibly pro-RMT.

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Originally Posted by Frein

It's not even a gil sink because the gil goes to other players rather than disappearing from circulation. Still, it's incredibly pro-RMT.

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it is a gil sink because of the taxing. the market wards tax system is one big gil sink.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

it is a gil sink because of the taxing. the market wards tax system is one big gil sink.

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Well, that's just the market wards that are the gil sink, not necessarily the materia system. There's no tax for shouting and purchasing through /trade for instance.

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Originally Posted by Frein

It's not even a gil sink because the gil goes to other players rather than disappearing from circulation. Still, it's incredibly pro-RMT.

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Suggest something that can make you gil in game and drive the economy without being incredibly pro-RMT. I doubt you can. I doubt anyone else can either.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

How are these any different? Whether in bulk or one at a time either is no more "hardcore" than the other. It's the same odds either way.

The problem with trying to predict how many attempts it'd take is pointless as it is completely luck-based.

You can do it on your first set of gloves, or you're 10,000th. Until chances for success increase with successive attempts, each attempt is its own unique occurrence completely independent from the others.

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They are different because with option one, as soon as you make progress and successfully meld 2, you blow it up trying to meld a 3rd. In the second option, you buy materials in bulk to reach X amount with Y amount of materia on them. As you go further and further, the goal is to get X to equal one and Y to equal 5.

Its a gear sink not a gil sink, though some taxes on sold materia and gear do come into play the main purpose is to give NQ gear a reason to exist. Crafters can currently grind gear and turn profit easily selling the gear for SB purposes.

Right now its very reasonable to go for a double IV materia item. Odds put you in or around a 1/5 ~ 1/6 chance on double IV's. A double IV makes a visible difference in DPS / HPS(healing per second). Going any higher then tripple's is a useless pipedream. Tripples puts you around a 1/50 shot when adding in cost of materia and materials as an example from strait math it would cost me around 5M to make a tripple STR IV glove giving me a +50 STR give or take bonus.

For me its a fun long term Mini-Game: Every time I make a new successfull double forbid I try for a tripple on the weaker of the 2. Yesterday I did some PL'ing and had some extra STR IV's pop out. I was able to make a +29STR glove (+12 > +17). I took my old +23 gloves and tried adding a 3rd. This blew up but eventually over time I hope to have a full set of tripples. Sure I might get lucky and get a quad but its not my current goal, its just part of the mini game for me.

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

Odds put you in or around a 1/5 ~ 1/6 chance on double IV's.

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I went 0 for 7 trying to double meld tier IIIs this weekend on an axe. :(

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Originally Posted by tymora

Suggest something that can make you gil in game and drive the economy without being incredibly pro-RMT. I doubt you can. I doubt anyone else can either.

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Correct. Because of RMT and the fact that participating in economic activities like trade and manufacturing is mostly rather boring, I would not design an MMO to be centered on the economy. Over here we call it work and most of us do it only because we get paid for it.