Something need to be done in how tanks acquiring Provoke

You are comparing apples to oranges. Tank skills are all vital vs poor dps skill alignment. As someone who wants to be a tank (dark knight) or (warrior) and seeing the skills they get, I would hope they are smart enough to keep looking through the rest of their cross class skills.

On the other hand, you were smart enough to notice those were not important. I guess only the opposite scenario exists, no one would ever notice that some of them are important.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Why anyone would think an aquireable crossclass skill is not important to be efficient in their role is beyond me... I would hope they learn that lesson while equipping bloodbath and foresight while leveling on their gladiator in order to become a warrior but I guess for the players you are talking about they are going to need to actually use the mentor system cause they are going to be clueless about anything under these circumstances unless the skill is flat out given to them.

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Considering they ain't doing jack with the class system, kinda hard when they aren't pushing it anymore. They need to remove it all honesty.
Most the CC abilities are pure Dog dookie anyways.
What I think they should do is merge some skills into the jobs skills so we don't have to worry about it.
So like add Provoke to an existing WAR skills, and add SC to all healer jobs.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

You are comparing apples to oranges. Tank skills are all vital vs poor dps skill alignment. As someone who wants to be a tank (dark knight) or (warrior) and seeing the skills they get, I would hope they are smart enough to keep looking through the rest of their cross class skills.

On the other hand, you were smart enough to notice those were not important. I guess only the opposite scenario exists, no one would ever notice that some of them are important.

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Looking through their jobs own future skills is the extent I would expect from a sprout, let alone cross class skills. You expect someone with no understanding of the game (who is not told by the game which cross class skills you will be bitched at for not having) to fully explore the cross class system (a system that comes across as allowing you to play the way you want) and identify that there are even skills that will be vital, let alone which ones. Sorry, but you have a massively high expectation of people.

To put things into perspective, my entire mentality as a player up to lvl 20 was "WOW I want my own chocobo!", endgame wasn't even on my radar

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Originally Posted by bass9020

If you and many others apparently bothered to read the abilites/spell tool tips they say on the very bottom what classes and jobs can use them, clearly indicating that its a cross class system. Or opening up the abilities menu and seeing the additional area.....

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Way to assume, ass.

1) I was leveling a SMN to begin. I did read my abilities, on my hotbar, as they popped up. I didn't really have a need to open my abilities tab as I was leveling, because everything magically showed up on my hotbar, I read it, figured out how it worked with what I had, and put it where I wanted on the hotbar.

2) Coming from other games where there isn't "Cross Class" abilities, seeing all the names under the ability didn't scream to me "THIS IS A CROSS CLASS ABILITY" but that multiple classes/jobs got the same ability, as other games have.

3) I'm not a stupid player. I understand things. But if something like provoke is as necessary as ya'll are making it out to be (I have a DRK to 60, but don't tank anything over 50 because, God forbid, I might offend a hard-core by not being bleeding edge amazing in a duty roulette) then it needs to be emphasized better than it currently is.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

I guess only the opposite scenario exists, no one would ever notice that some of them are important.

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Oh, people will notice they are important, provided they do the following:
a) Know they exist, which usually goes the way of attaining them in the first place. Most people do not look up skills they'll get later, they let themselves be surprised.
b) Read the actual tooltips - wanna know why many DPS don't have a decent rotation? That's exactly why.
c) Know or experience situations in which they are useful. Up until 50, you won't find many situations in which provoke can't just be substituted by an additional overpower/flash or two. Scratch that: You can go without provoke until 60 these days, none of the 8-man trials on the way demand it. I can't remember the last time a tank died at a boss either, only on big trash pulls, in which case provoke helps you squat. A new tank will experience it as a pointless skill for the majority of their early career.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Sorry, but you have a massively high expectation of people.

To put things into perspective, my entire mentality as a player up to lvl 20 was "WOW I want my own chocobo!"

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I could just say you have a massively low expectation of this generation of mmorpgamers apparently.

To put things into perspective, my entire mentality as a player up to lvl 20 was still deciding what class I wanted to main... but that has nothing to do with this? Were talking about endgame here I thought.

Honestly for this ability alone each tank job should have their own taunt /shrug

All the lvl 1-30 classes should just lock, literally, after you hit 30. It would make players actually bother to level their cross-class, do their research and look at their new spells. You don't really need your lvl 1-30 class to level beyond that anyway, you end up over-riding it with your new main class...

Though, that *might* screw up POTD. :p

What sucks is Provoke is as vital as we're saying in so many instances.

Even if tank swapping isn't a mechanic, there are many instances where spawned adds will go straight for the healers, and the skill effortlessly allows you to get it on yourself before they are hurt. It also allows you to instantly snap up a boss if the MT dies before any real carnage happens.

Just to clarify if anyone doesn't know, Provoke will put you at the top of the enmity list of the mob you use it on, and works on damn near everything in the game, save for a very small pool of enemies that don't use enmity at all.

It's just so overpowered for what it is, and makes such a huge difference that any tank with it can barely operate without it. (Myself included!)

How are we deciding all these "most people" comments. Its amusing me, like we all have charts and graphs to look at or something... The 3 or so tanks I've ran into in the game that actually didn't have provoke when I tried to do titan EX/Ifrit EX in the distant past when the tank swapping began? That must be the "most people" I've experienced. I literally have not seen one since then and I do titan ex still regularly to help new ppl cause its a fun fight...

I actually think every tank having their own version of provoke would be cool and something I can get behind, but I don't agree with all this ignorance is an excuse nonsense...