Nerf "Coming Into Its Own"

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

it really far from free pass right now, and just for a reminder, a i230 weapon (lore weapon) take only 7 week and a very very light grinding for get one. same for the i210 token weapon it can be done in the day.

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You can finish the 210 in 3 weeks and the 230 in one week of concertied grinding. ( you have had 4+ months to complete the 3 week step, that means pretty light grinding... kind of a free pass)

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

this quest was made like this for give people a reason to stay with the 3.1 patch, and seriously i do think the i240 step will be something on par. instead to offer us a true content designed for make us feel progressing as player in our jobs that get the weapon. we need to farm low level content for get one i210 weapon, seriously?

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The relic quest is not designed to be a relic quest, it is a tool the devs use to keep older content going and keep us busy, nothing more. It will likely always be this way, and that sucks, I don't disagree that it's bad for a "Relic" quest.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

ps: and before someone come talk me about instant gratification, it's more about getting something that are decent... make a farm worth of 3+ week of effort because...

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It should take about 4 weeks to get the relic to 230 from 200. You also save 2+ weeks of Lore that you would have to spend if you went that route. Are the three weeks plus 1000 extra Lore worth the effort.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

what people want is not always instant gratification but feeling rewarded for a true effort.

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True effort? you gain it passively. The only true effort is the raid weapon, and getting a static and making the time for it is part of the effort.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

but with FF14 it's did become the goal... it's become the purpose of why we play... and it's bad, in way too many way.... it's bad. it's a easy way to create content without take the risk to offer real content for a large part of the community, because soo far the part of the community doing raid is less of 10%.... means more of 90% aren't doing raid and are only working with the token system.

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I don't disagree that it is a bad system that they abuse. I have stated previously how I would like it to be, and that requires far too many resources for them to do it. However, nerfing the quest does not fix how it is bad.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

why?
because some don't pve (pvp player)
some don't have the time (casual player)
some don't find the appeal to partage content with that much player, that will recquire a strict execution (mid core player)
and some don't have the people for partake this sort of content

you have even the rp player that will have no interest at all into this....
but instead to offer a decent content in different group category, they focus solely on the raid part. because wow did that... and look how it work well for them now, wow is loosing tons of people per month. because they have refuse to offer new experience and try to offer new type of content.

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I think a language barrier got me here.

I think you are saying the relic doesn't cater to the minorities though, when it caters to everyone, if they don't have an interest, they can get the lore.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

and i hold against yoshida when he did said while the fanfest of london, that it was not possible to make a challenging content for 4 player... what is false! they hide behind this idea that is not possible, because most them are old player of old game and the genre didn't evolve for the last 20 years. time to wake up. before it's too late.

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Didn't see that comment, but I agree with you, though it doesn't really have much to do with the relic quest.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

time to offer true content for the relic designed specially for that.
time to offer another activity for the endgame that don't involve 8 player... but 4 or 24 (for the big FC out) because hm dungeon or void ark are not that... they are poor joke.

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I agree they should offer that content, but I feel it should have nothing to do with the relic quest, at least not more than a side assignment, it should not be the focus of developing that content.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

You can finish the 210 in 3 weeks and the 230 in one week of concertied grinding. ( you have had 4+ months to complete the 3 week step, that means pretty light grinding... kind of a free pass)

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This various between people, I'm still working on the 210 step since launch so that's about 4 months now. So, no, not exactly. Is it easy to do? Yes. Is it long. Absolutely. People pace themselves at their own speed.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

The relic quest is not designed to be a relic quest, it is a tool the devs use to keep older content going and keep us busy, nothing more. It will likely always be this way, and that sucks, I don't disagree that it's bad for a "Relic" quest.

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Sadly I agree with this part... it's not a "real" Relic Quest. It's just a Side-Quest to prolong old content on the game and that's bad game design. If it's not fun you're doing it wrong. I frickin' hope they change this, they changed the Zodiac Brave Weapon start because Raiders complained that a Relic was better than a Raid Weapon at the time.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

It should take about 4 weeks to get the relic to 230 from 200. You also save 2+ weeks of Lore that you would have to spend if you went that route. Are the three weeks plus 1000 extra Lore worth the effort.

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Again, this various between people. The fastest and most focus of people can do it in 4 weeks but for a "casual" content and for some casual players it takes longer than a month. I work as a Tax Filer and these 4 months have eaten up a lot of time so I cannot work on the Relic as much as I want. Plus I feel like I'm going to fall asleep doing the Roulettes day in and day out and even the BT Quests are getting a little tiring despite the worthwhile reward of Tier IV Materia.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

True effort? you gain it passively. The only true effort is the raid weapon, and getting a static and making the time for it is part of the effort.

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Well for a Weapon I'm working on I want it to feel like the "effort" was worth it and feel "truly" rewarded going through everything to improve my weapon... only for it to come short in the long run. For most Anima Weapons they're like Tier 3 Weapons where Lore Weapons are Tier 2, being the 2nd best, and finally Raid Weapons being Tier 1... the best of the best and mainly due to the stats on the Weapons. For Lore Weapons it takes 3 weeks (the same effort for the 210 Relic as you said) and 7 weeks for Midas 4 to get it unless you do Raids and get the Tomestone from the AS6-8 content and upgrade from there on the 3rd week.

For Raid Weapons if you have perfect schedule and perfect teamwork you can get it within the first few weeks. Relic here, for most people, takes way longer than 3 weeks and requires Crafter classes which the Lore and Raid Weapons don't require and so the Relic Weapon is the "weakest" of the three types of Weapons. I know this is the beginning phases of the Relic, but honestly the current formula for it is bad and the effort you put into making this Relic is worthless and mostly a waste of time. In the end if might become BiS like the Zeta Weapon was, but until then the way they're handling the Relic in HW is very poorly.

Heck, what are the Japanese players' response and thoughts are on the Anima Relic?

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

This various between people, I'm still working on the 210 step since launch so that's about 4 months now. So, no, not exactly. Is it easy to do? Yes. Is it long. Absolutely. People pace themselves at their own speed.

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Please re-read this is a reponse to. And what that was responding to. Not to be insulting, but your busy schedule has no bearing on what I said or if the quest should be nerfed. It is not a criteria that should be considered.

A word of advice though, if you cannont complete it in this time, either you are not doing it efficently, even with the job, or it is really not for you, and the Lore weapon is more your flavour. Just get around to completing the step passively and have the glamour, or have it for when work eases up a bit.

Also I do not agree with your assesment of it being the weekest, and think the stated criteara you used to select that was poor. In the end, even if the stats are not the prefered ones on some classes, most people won't notice the difference.

Not doing it efficiently? You're the one who's not getting it. :(

I'm working on it at my own pace and picking the steps I want to do to go about getting it. I'll eventually get it when I get all the items, but I am in no way in a rush to get the Relic. I main NIN and the stats on the Relic make it the "weakest" Weapon for NIN where the Raid and Lore Weapons are the more efficient choices. Plus people do it on their OWN pace how they feel and like it and for the most part not all of them will or can do it within 3 weeks. I am NOT going to burn myself out doing it the efficiently way, as you put it, as they will be too draining on my spirit and would make me sick of playing FFXIV anymore. Which is why i'm taking my time on it.

You got nerves to say "it is really not for you" as I clearly stated in my other posts that I want to get the Relic regardless of its stats as I like making the Weapon and doing the Questline. Though I know you not trying to be insulting I was pointing out how people go about doing the Relic differently and most will not speed through it.

Plus I think most people would agree that MOST of the Anima Relics, not all of them, are inferior to their Lore and Raid counterparts in the long run due to the stats weighted for their representative classes.

Regardless the fact of the matter is people are getting sick of the same tireless grind for a "glamour" Relic as you've said and it's the same old, same old. People don't want it easy... they want it FUN to do. I haven't played FFXI (except for a little bit) but apparently the FFXI Relic Weapons there were perfect for the most part as they lasted forever on all contents (except for the last few I hear) and thus it think it would be better if the Relic in FFXIV would reach that worthwhile status and the many "fun" things to do getting it done. They had a good blend and fun and time investment grind for powerful weapon to hold you for all expansion the right way which FFXIV can't seem to get right.

In the end the 210 step is going to be nerf whether people complain against there's no need or not. Ain't no two ways about it. We'll just see what the future holds then.

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

I'm working on it at my own pace and picking the steps I want to do to go about getting it. I'll eventually get it when I get all the items, but I am in no way in a rush to get the Relic. I main NIN and the stats on the Relic make it the "weakest" Weapon for NIN where the Raid and Lore Weapons are the more efficient choices. Plus people do it on their OWN pace how they feel and like it and for the most part not all of them will or can do it within 3 weeks. I am NOT going to burn myself out doing it the efficiently way, as you put it, as they will be too draining on my spirit and would make me sick of playing FFXIV anymore. Which is why i'm taking my time on it.

You got nerves to say "it is really not for you" as I clearly stated in my other posts that I want to get the Relic regardless of its stats as I like making the Weapon and doing the Questline. Though I know you not trying to be insulting I was pointing out how people go about doing the Relic differently and most will not speed through it.

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Honestly, VirusChris, this entire statement is quite contradicting. You make it abundantly clear that you want to tackle the Relic grind at your own pace, which is all fine and dandy. But at the same time you speak ill of the Relic, in comparison to its Lore counterpart. Which you also agree is the easier one to obtain. I'm left confused by this. Whiteroom is right you know, the Lore weapon is there for players like you who simply do not have the time to invest in the Relic. Should you choose to go after the Relic regardless of this, that is not something SE can or should consider. Take it or leave it.

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

Plus I think most people would agree that MOST of the Anima Relics, not all of them, are inferior to their Lore and Raid counterparts in the long run due to the stats weighted for their representative classes.

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Then don't get them. Sooner or later a step similar to the infusion of materia that decides secondary stats on your Relic will most likely be added. They did this before, and it will happen again. I guarantee it.

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

Regardless the fact of the matter is people are getting sick of the same tireless grind for a "glamour" Relic as you've said and it's the same old, same old. People don't want it easy... they want it FUN to do. I haven't played FFXI (except for a little bit) but apparently the FFXI Relic Weapons there were perfect for the most part as they lasted forever on all contents (except for the last few I hear) and thus it think it would be better if the Relic in FFXIV would reach that worthwhile status and the many "fun" things to do getting it done. They had a good blend and fun and time investment grind for powerful weapon to hold you for all expansion the right way which FFXIV can't seem to get right.

In the end the 210 step is going to be nerf whether people complain against there's no need or not. Ain't no two ways about it.

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Now I mostly do agree with the fact that the method of the grind does play a huge part, and doing the same thing over and over isn't "fun" just as you say. But who ever said the Relic had to be "fun"? I understand that players pay to play this game, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have to work for a powerful item within that game. A game without challenges is a boring game if you ask me. That's why there are alternatives for those who want an easier time. And in all honesty if you simply want the Relic to glamour it, but don't want to be bothered grinding for it, then that is your own problem. I mean no offense by saying this, it's simply how it is. You've made it clear that you want the Relic, and that you're going for it at your own pace. Great, good luck! Does anything else really need to be said at this point?

Sure, it will inevitably be nerfed when the later steps are sufficiently ahead. But personally I wish they won't.

Edit: I never played FFXI, but I have it on good authority that obtaining the Relic weapons there took considerably longer compared to FFXIV's Relic. And that it wasn't exactly "fun" either. Anyone who's played FFXI, feel free to pitch in here.

^ this.

Ten letters and stuff.

It seemed more like he was saying the grind should at least be a somewhat entertaining experience.
Games are meant to be enjoyed and you guys just said (nerf or no nerf) that BORING grinds should be a thing in games????

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Originally Posted by Zari

It seemed more like he was saying the grind should at least be a somewhat entertaining experience.
Games are meant to be enjoyed and you guys just said (nerf or no nerf) that BORING grinds should be a thing in games????

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But nerfing the grind doesn't make it more enjoyable. If he cannot see that it is simply a tool the devs use to keep us here and old content going, thats on him. What he seems to want though, from his comments in other threads, is an entirely different weapon, and if your assumption is correct, method of getting it, and that should probably have it's own thread.

But come on, "I chose to do it slow, and I'll complain about that". Setting his ultra slow and with taking that long it would have to be inefficent method of getting it as some sort of timeline that can be used to argue a point? He didn't even understand the thing he had quoted from me.

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Originally Posted by Torunya

Edit: I never played FFXI, but I have it on good authority that obtaining the Relic weapons there took considerably longer compared to FFXIV's Relic. And that it wasn't exactly "fun" either. Anyone who's played FFXI, feel free to pitch in here.

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Relic in XI was crushingly difficult for a number of years, but it was also the definitive Best Weapon in each category. Owning a relic was a monument to how much time you spent getting one, and the reward was equal parts "making other people jealous" and "having the best item in the game".

Meanwhile, the amount of time you spend getting an anima weapon is significantly longer than any of the other weapons (except Zodiac, which was also the Best Weapon at the time), and anima weapons don't have the distinction of being the Best Weapon for the time you put into it. It's not even a coveted glamour piece, so there's no value to it other than "I want this instead of my lore weapon"--but then, you can get a lore weapon significantly faster than an anima weapon, and it will likely have better stats on it.

Also, consider the second, third, fourth anima weapons you make. Why is this so pointlessly long? What is SE going to nerf this to?

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Originally Posted by Torunya

Edit: I never played FFXI, but I have it on good authority that obtaining the Relic weapons there took considerably longer compared to FFXIV's Relic. And that it wasn't exactly "fun" either. Anyone who's played FFXI, feel free to pitch in here.

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Imagen being forced to do Diadem constantly for 3 hours at a time for a year. So no not fun ...