No new SMNs for SMN?

I know there are people who want the classic FF SMN style of "stand there while a giant monster blasts everything", but I could swear Yoshida said something that suggested they don't want to go to that for XIV's SMN. If that is the case then it'll likely never happen. Sucks for the people that wanted it that way, but what are you gonna do.

As a non-SMN player looking in, I see that they don't really seem very "Summoner-esque" in the traditional standpoint. However, I feel that what they're doing with the Dreadwyrm Trance should have been the plan from the get-go. Make the Summoner channel a part of the Primal's power but in a cooler fashion than just "pet floats around and does things", while still avoiding the lore-breaking (and mechanically unsound) full Primal summons. If all Summoner's attacks were spells that channeled stuff from different Primals as Dreadwyrm Trance does, it would look cool and powerful without going into full on "sit and eat a sandwich" mode.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Them Pet-hotbars though.

Adding abilities onto pets still exasperates the issue at hand though (but not to the same degree as adding new egis completely). You'd still only use X in Y scenario because it's objectively better, whether its uptime or survivability. Egi-glamours would be the best compromise but hardly the most important thing to focus on atm when it comes to summoner.

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Then what should people be focusing on when it comes to summoner? There's a new problem I see that will affect everyone the fact that no one is getting new traits, so Summoner is still stuck at 3 aetherflow stacks and nearly all of the new abilities cost aetherflow. I believe that come level 60 and gaining the dreadwyrm trace ability fester and bane will no longer be use or not as much.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

Then what should people be focusing on when it comes to summoner? There's a new problem I see that will affect everyone the fact that no one is getting new traits, so Summoner is still stuck at 3 aetherflow stacks and nearly all of the new abilities cost aetherflow. I believe that come level 60 and gaining the dreadwyrm trace ability fester and bane will no longer be use or not as much.

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You gain dreadwyrm trance as you use up aetherflow according to sources. The way I forecast it, you'd still use bane to spread AoE dots, gain dreadwyrm from that, and use that up for ahk morn/dreadflare AoE. You're also getting tri-disaster which applies all 3 DoTs immediately, gives an option for burst damage or on pull, then reapply dots as needed (since they're all on different timers). Something like fester isn't going to suddenly drop out of ideal rotations. It's terrible design to completely forget about pre-expansion abilities regardless of class (like bard AoE, sob sob)

It's a fundamental problem when you try to make pets/summons have entirely different functionalities depending on their type. That's why you don't see summoners using ifrit if you don't have a ninja/warrior, or titan ever in party play.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

snip.

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So the way Dreadwyrm trance is going to work is by being a self buff with a duration im guessing. You have to use up aetherflow stacks with in that time limit to get to unlock the Dreadflare ability. What about the cooldown time for Dreadwyrm trance (if it is a buff) whats stopping SE from making it a 5 min CD like enkindle? With a near 3k (without crit) damage would it not have a ridiculous cooldown as well?

Also I've always wanted to ask this, but wouldn't have been better to give ACN/SCH/SMN all one pet and depending on which pet stance you wanted your pet would switch to that stance (like the chocobos).

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Originally Posted by Jasmine_Aurelia

I don't play FF11 is because you can't solo for crap in XI, I also didn't like the MP drain for having a smn out.

but we can disagree Averax. No hard feelings.

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Sorry if i'm sounding rude, but i come from harsher forums where if you do not establish dominance, you are eaten alive.

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Originally Posted by Jasmine_Aurelia

What I want is for the summoner to be secondary to the pet.

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Which is understandable, and I get that. Again, I loved smn in XI and enjoyed the crap out of it. I rather enjoy pet jobs myself. :) However, I don't think that's going to happen in XIV. This incarnation of summoner is based on the master, not the pet.

To remedy this, I'd prefer they added in a more pet based class in the future. Perhaps beastmaster, or puppetmaster (minus the ridiculous gil sink for attachments lol).

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

So the way Dreadwyrm trance is going to work is by being a self buff with a duration im guessing. You have to use up aetherflow stacks with in that time limit to get to unlock the Dreadflare ability. What about the cooldown time for Dreadwyrm trance (if it is a buff) whats stopping SE from making it a 5 min CD like enkindle? With a near 3k (without crit) damage would it not have a ridiculous cooldown as well?

Also I've always wanted to ask this, but wouldn't have been better to give ACN/SCH/SMN all one pet and depending on which pet stance you wanted your pet would switch to that stance (like the chocobos).

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If I recall, you get a stack of Dreadwyrm Trance everytime you use a Aetherflow-ability (Fester, Bane, etc.). Not sure.
I doubt they'd make it a huge CD, otherwise there would be no point of that ability after all. @_@;

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Originally Posted by UltimateAoe2

If I recall, you get a stack of Dreadwyrm Trance everytime you use a Aetherflow-ability (Fester, Bane, etc.). Not sure.
I doubt they'd make it a huge CD, otherwise there would be no point of that ability after all. @_@;

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So its a continuous buff like kiss of the wasp/viper, paladin Oaths, or defiance?

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

It's not really the case that people are complaining as much about the lack of Egi's than the fact there's a distinct lack of actual summoning going on. I hate to harp on about the same point over and over, but it really needs to be spelled out to some people because they seem to forget that it's in the name.

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I mean, now you get to summon the power of Bahamut.
I'm pretty sure they're going WoW's Demonology route where you'll eventually get to take the form of a summon yourself like a stance.
They've already set the precedent with Iceheart/Shiva.

There's a lot of ways the name Summoner can be taken and it doesn't all necessarily have to lead to revolving around the pet.
The Dreadwyrm Trance is the beginning of that.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

So its a continuous buff like kiss of the wasp/viper, paladin Oaths, or defiance?

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No, it's rotational but not a long cooldown. Sort of like Fester.

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After playing with each of the jobs, summoner felt to be the most challenging. Instead of receiving a new Egi, summoners are receiving a new element where they can harbor the power of Bahamut, called Bahamut Aether.

Within this, there is a procedure involved before you can release the power of Bahamut. First, when you utilize actions which consume a stack of Aetherflow from the pool, you'll receive the Bahamut Aether buff for 30 seconds. Upon earning Bahamut Aether, new abilities known as Dreadwyrm Trance become available. With this, you can use the power of Bahamut to increase your own attack power.

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Source

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Summoner

The main focus of the new Summoner abilities is enhancing the strength of the Summoner itself, not the Egi pet. For direct attacks, the new actions "Ruin III" and "Tri-disaster" (the existing action has been renamed as "Tri-bind") will be added. Tri-disaster inflicts Bio, Bio II, and Miasma at the same time, so it should be quite important. The biggest new action, though, is the consumable "Bahamut Aether," which is granted by consuming Aetherflow.

The "Bahamut Aether" buff has the effect of increasing magic damage dealt, and allows you to trigger "Dreadwyrm Trance" when you reach three stacks. With the effect of Dreadwyrm Trance active, you can activate a highly damaging action. Thus far, the uses for Aetherflow have been pretty fixed, so this will force you to put some further thought into it.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

So the way Dreadwyrm trance is going to work is by being a self buff with a duration im guessing. You have to use up aetherflow stacks with in that time limit to get to unlock the Dreadflare ability. What about the cooldown time for Dreadwyrm trance (if it is a buff) whats stopping SE from making it a 5 min CD like enkindle? With a near 3k (without crit) damage would it not have a ridiculous cooldown as well?

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It'd be like a reverse-aetherflow I'd assume. The abilities require 3 stacks, so that's the "cooldown" on how frequently it can be used. Of course you're forecasting the worse possible scenario for 3.0 summoner. We might as well have ninja getting positional requirement on all of their combos and Wanderer's Minuet being useless.