Over-healing should not generate extra threat

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Originally Posted by Dale

Oh I disagree with you. There is definitely love involved. It's the only explanation. In fact, I imagine they have wet dreams at night when thinking of the precious threat their over-healing creates.

And yes, I know... I'm a bad healer because I use regen on the tank. Silly me. What on earth am I thinking.

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Is it really that hard to wait 2 seconds after a mob is engaged to use Regen? I learned the very fist level 50 instance I shouldn't use Regen before a pull because it WILL get me killed, and this was back when WAR was underpowered to PLD and PLD's shield oath was not as strong as it is today. You're complaining about a mechanic that you're willingly running into because you want to do X when the proper/common sense way is to do Y

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Originally Posted by Dale

OK, I am going to stop you here. And yes, your contempt (and others) is well documented at this point. Don't you worry any. It's amazing the love you people have for your over-healing threat. You would think I was advocating taking away your very lives.

I never said I used regen before combat begins. The issue is when the tank rushes to do another pull while regen is still active. There is a difference. Again, you are assuming things that were never said so you can rant your ridiculous condescending diatribe at me.

And I hope you are the hyrist I used to play with on FF11. If so that vorpal blade I killed you with feels even better today ^^

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I'm rather confused as to where I know you from in FF11, but if you cherish a petty victory in FFXI's rather lackluster PvP system, I feel kinda sorry for you. Not that I claim any sort of skill in PvP mind you. That's not my preference for gaming.


Regardless, of that, even if you try to play the absolute innocence in the situation in which you claimed hate, which I severely doubt is genuine given your demeanor thus far, it sounds like you have severe difficulty handling any sort of threat headed your way. I will say again, that adaptation to the game mechanics is a part of developing skill, not complaining to have them change because you do not agree with the concept.


There was a lot I did not agree with in FFXI's mechanics. Some mechanics here in this game also irk me. But I do not demand they be changed because I actually strive to understand the through process behind instituting them. (With the standing exception of slow developments and change to Red Mage, simply because the class concept was broken.) Even if you are to disagree, you are very much in the minority in this regard.

There was a "Dale" once, I recall in FFXI. He was remarkable at adapting existing mechanics of the game to fit his playstyle, even when conventional play-styles decried his methodology and pressed him out of party-play. I remember that individual fondly because of that. Sadly, I don't think you are this Dale I know. He would adapt.

There are a couple of wonky things with the threat system yeah, such as some stuff like Eye for an Eye sometimes pulling enough hate that it'll at least get one or two mobs on you after even two Flashes or Overpowers, or Twinania dragons flying straight towards someone who didn't move or touch anything at all based on something silly like their first name. Most buffs seem to pull more hate than they probably should for no apparent reason, Regen I'd say I'm on the fence but I agree it shouldn't pull that much to instantly get everything on the healer between pulls, at least it should get everything to yellow or even orange, if anything increase the hate its original cast produces and maybe what the ticks do too though this is really mostly only an issue in dungeons with closer mob packs.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I'm rather confused as to where I know you from in FF11, but if you cherish a petty victory in FFXI's rather lackluster PvP system, I feel kinda sorry for you. Not that I claim any sort of skill in PvP mind you. That's not my preference for gaming.

Regardless, of that, even if you try to play the absolute innocence in the situation in which you claimed hate, which I severely doubt is genuine given your demeanor thus far, it sounds like you have severe difficulty handling any sort of threat headed your way. I will say again, that adaptation to the game mechanics is a part of developing skill, not complaining to have them change because you do not agree with the concept.


There was a lot I did not agree with in FFXI's mechanics. Some mechanics here in this game also irk me. But I do not demand they be changed because I actually strive to understand the through process behind instituting them. Even if you are to disagree, you are very much in the minority in this regard.

There was a "Dale" once, I recall in FFXI. He was remarkable at adapting existing mechanics of the game to fit his playstyle, even when conventional play-styles decried his methodology and pressed him out of party-play. I remember that individual fondly because of that. Sadly, I don't think you are this Dale I know. He would adapt
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I assure you I am that Dale :)

And when so-called adapting means I have to limit my gameplay in such stupid ways as neglecting to use one of my favorite and most effective spells on the tank there is a problem. This game has limited gameplay enough. To limit it further is out of the question.

As a white mage, I should be able to freely use regen without complicating pulls for a tank. It really is that simple.

This is a gameplay/mechanic issue. It's not a player issue. We have regen for a reason. And that reason is to use it. There is adaptation. Then there is just poor game design. This issue fits in the latter.

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

Is it really that hard to wait 2 seconds after a mob is engaged to use Regen?

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/sigh

Again, let me repeat. This has nothing to do with me using regen before combat begins. Please read my earlier posts to understand what I am talking about.

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Originally Posted by Dale

I assure you I am that Dale :)

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I don't understand what's exactly wrong here for you. If the tank is being overzealous in his pulls, or pulling while you have regen up, run with him. That doesn't limit his mechanics, or yours. And I know for a fact you don't fear Melee range. Sure, you get hate for a moment, that just means you're in control to where the monsters go. It'd be worse if my Eos caught attention from whispering wind and I don't have the opportunity to micro her next to the tank causing the tank to move.

But here, you're in full control over that circumstance, Dale. It's not limiting you. If you want to keep Regen on your tank, you know what's going to happen. Maybe pop a stoneskin on yourself and, heck, get a good holy in so that the mobs are stunned long enough to be flashed.

Question though, Why White Mage? I thought you loved Sword and Board.

Over-healing definitely should generate threat, as this is the penalty for being wasteful with your heals (along with an empty MP pool).

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I don't understand what's exactly wrong here for you. If the tank is being overzealous in his pulls, or pulling while you have regen up, run with him. That doesn't limit his mechanics, or yours. And I know for a fact you don't fear Melee range. Sure, you get hate for a moment, that just means you're in control to where the monsters go. It'd be worse if my Eos caught attention from whispering wind and I don't have the opportunity to micro her next to the tank causing the tank to move.

But here, you're in full control over that circumstance, Dale. It's not limiting you. If you want to keep Regen on your tank, you know what's going to happen. Maybe pop a stoneskin on yourself and, heck, get a good holy in so that the mobs are stunned long enough to be flashed.

Question though, Why White Mage? I thought you loved Sword and Board.

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It depends on the tank. Yes, a skilled and experience tank can deal with it usually. But if it's a new tank still learning the ropes (which is often the case when doing random duty finders) it can turn into a nightmare. It doesn't matter if I run with him or not. Besides, I always stay relatively near the tank anyways during most instances because I do like to use Holy. But you can't use holy when a half dozen mobs are beating the crap out of you (not to mention that creates quite a bit of threat in itself and might compound the problem). And 90% of all tanks are over-zealous with pulls. That's the norm on this game.

The problem is regen creates an imbalanced amount of threat right at the start that many tanks struggle with. It's just a nuisance, and holds back the gameplay. It would be far better just to make a regen pulse that does 0 damage cause 0 threat.

And I also play a black mage. I don't play a paladin because that's what my friend plays. You may remember him. Called "Dest" for short. ^^

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Originally Posted by jwang

Over-healing definitely should generate threat, as this is the penalty for being wasteful with your heals (along with an empty MP pool).

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An empty MP pool is penalty enough.

But what I am talking about has nothing to do with being wasteful with your heals.

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Originally Posted by Dale

/sigh

Again, let me repeat. This has nothing to do with me using regen before combat begins. Please read my earlier posts to understand what I am talking about.

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I read what you said. I also read you saying Over healing is unavoidable among other nonsense. It is very avoidable. More then likely you're using regen at the wrong time before a battle ends or not communicating with the tank properly. Though if you are indeed trying to communicate, then there's no issue with the mechanics, there's an issue with your tank.

It's not poor game design, it's the players making poor execution of the game design