Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

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Originally Posted by Senn

And what ideological perspective would that be?

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That women should be allowed to have muscles, probably. It's too modern of a perspective, I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Uh, no. Maybe you should actually read what they are saying instead of getting triggered. Granted, like I said, their ideals and explanation is all over the place but it all boils down to "I don't want female Hrothgar to look all bulky like the males". And then the conversation just went else where because you and others went back and forth.

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Their ideals and explanation is all over the place but it all boils down "I don't want to play a hrothgar". Which is fine! The good news is that we've got plenty of races that aren't hrothgar that they can play as :)

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

Blatant hyperbole, calling them that. I mean... really? The males definitely fit; fem Roes aren't even close to anything resembling that. And yes, female Highlanders are thin, they're just toned and have better posture than Midlanders. Again, have a number of people in this thread just never seen actual female athletes that do any sort of lifting? Fem Roes are closer to that than anything, and Roes are meant to look powerful to begin with. If you can't tell the difference between the males and females, that's on you, chief.

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I think you have a distorted view of thin my friend. Female Higlanders look far more like real world athletes than Fem Roe. Miqo'te and Au Ra, even Elezen are thin. Viera, Midlander and Highlander cover average to built. FemRoe are more of a giant build type. Also, because of that most gear look absurdly bad on them.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

That women should be allowed to have muscles, probably. It's too modern of a perspective, I'm afraid.

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You really need to chill out and step away from the forums if you're throwing around the term "Misogyny" over a disagreement on what female Hrothgar's body type should be. Please, go outside and touch some grass. Like seriously, you can disagree without being disagreeable.

Anyways, female Hrothgar imo should be relatively muscled but not to the point that they look like body builders on steroids. Having a queenly, regal appearance with a tall, lean and muscled build would be perfect for them, and preferably them having a beast face would be preferred, with a slightly shorter muzzle than the males to add a more feminine touch.

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Originally Posted by nebby00

You really need to chill out and step away from the forums if you're throwing around the term "Misogyny" over a disagreement on what female Hrothgar's body type should be. Please, go outside and touch some grass. Like seriously, you can disagree without being disagreeable.

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Wow. It’s almost like you didn’t read the past few pages.

Literally go somewhere else with that tired ' touching the grass ' comment. It's offensively bad.

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Originally Posted by nebby00

I don't care what in the world they possibly could have said, you don't stoop to that level. Literally, nothing you can say now can possible justify that, nor whatever they had said could have justified that either. Relax and seriously chill out for a bit. You're making yourself look bad, step away from the forums and take a breather.

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Yeah, no.

Don't pretend like you have any kind of power over what I do, when I post or where I go.

And seeing as you have zero context over the situation I'm legit just gonna ignore you at this point since you're not offering even a half-decent argument.

[ reached my daily limit ]

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

Wow. It’s almost like you didn’t read the past few pages.

Literally go somewhere else with that tired ' touching the grass ' comment. It's offensively bad.

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I don't care what in the world they possibly could have said, you don't stoop to that level. Literally, nothing you can say now can possible justify that, nor whatever they had said could have justified that either. Relax and seriously chill out for a bit. You're making yourself look bad, step away from the forums and take a breather.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I think you have a distorted view of thin my friend. Female Higlanders look far more like real world athletes than Fem Roe. Miqo'te and Au Ra, even Elezen are thin. Viera, Midlander and Highlander cover average to built. FemRoe are more of a giant build type. Also, because of that most gear look absurdly bad on them.

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You... really haven't seen many, then, and certainly not in a variety of sports fields. The "looks bad" comment is also a matter of opinion, just as my "cat-girls are boring" is an opinion. Look, you're trying to get a rise out of me because of my forum avatar, I get it, not to mention the various... "interesting" takes I've seen from you over the months. Keep trying, I guess?

Regardless of all of this, doesn't change the fact that a niche isn't a bad thing, and Rodas' art of a female Hrothgar is still a good example of an obviously female character that still looks like the same spieces as the male. Ridiculous dimorphism is already a thing with AuRa, and I'd rather not see more of the same... which is exactly what would happen if they basically looked like cat-girls, Midlanders, or Highlanders.

I mean, when they said muscle = men, they probably just meant that men tend to have more muscle mass than women. Which is true fax lol
But it's not as if things have to be 100% biologically accurate in a fantasy game. Not to mention hrothgar are a beast-like race. So it shouldn't be surprising if they turned out to have more muscle compared to most other races in general.

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Yeah, no.

Don't pretend like you have any kind of power over what I do, when I post or where I go.

And seeing as you have zero context over the situation I'm legit just gonna ignore you at this point since you're not offering even a half-decent argument.

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I'm not even trying to argue with you, I literally have no quarrel with you whatsoever. But that response alone tells me a lot. You really need to chill out, and I know I don't have any power what you do, never insinuated that I did. But good, you reached your daily post limit, you can chill out for a bit and come back hopefully with a cooler head on your shoulders.

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Originally Posted by Senn

I mean, when they said muscle = men, they probably just meant that men tend to have more muscle mass than women. Which is true fax lol
But it's not as if things have to be 100% biologically accurate in a fantasy game. Not to mention hrothgar are a beast-like race. So it shouldn't be surprising if they turned out to have more muscle compared to most other races in general.

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Nah. Go back and read their posts; it very much wasn't them just going "grass is green". Otherwise, yes, that's what we're arguing: a beast-like race should actually look the part, and the males and females should look like the same species. Discourse isn't necessarily a bad thing, but most people who are posting in opposition are basically saying (to borrow from another poster): "I want to play a miqote but I don't want to play a miqote", which is just silly. If they look practically the same (maybe taller)... what's the point?

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

Nah. Go back and read their posts; it very much wasn't them just going "grass is green". Otherwise, yes, that's what we're arguing: a beast-like race should actually look the part, and the males and females should look like the same species. Discourse isn't necessarily a bad thing, but most people who are posting in opposition are basically saying (to borrow from another poster): "I want to play a miqote but I don't want to play a miqote", which is just silly. If they look practically the same (maybe taller)... what's the point?

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I think their pov is because the character creator is quite frankly outdated, and it's difficult for them to add new races and they typically use the same base bodies and modify them for new races. I really wish they did a complete overhaul with the whole system so that we could have a better character creator with better options. But most likely, if the dev team is going to take another body from another race and try to modify it to look a bit more muscular... I would say female highlander and female Roegadyn would be their best options if they don't make an entirely new body altogether. I personally wouldn't want a Miqo'te 2.0 either, since that'll just be boring and wouldn't fit a female Hrothgar at all since that's not what Hrothgar are supposed to be. As long as the body shape isn't something that looks hunched over and completely like a body builder then that would fit them how I imagine it would look like in my head at least.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

Nah. Go back and read their posts; it very much wasn't them just going "grass is green". Otherwise, yes, that's what we're arguing: a beast-like race should actually look the part, and the males and females should look like the same species. Discourse isn't necessarily a bad thing, but most people who are posting in opposition are basically saying (to borrow from another poster): "I want to play a miqote but I don't want to play a miqote", which is just silly. If they look practically the same (maybe taller)... what's the point?

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Sounds like they prefer female hrothgar to be slim, elegant, and beautiful. Am I missing anything?
The only issue is the constant insinuations being made about "ideologies" by some posters in my opinion. As if people can't have a preference without it being ideologically motivated.

EDIT: Adding this in here because I missed it:

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Originally Posted by nebby00

I think their pov is because the character creator is quite frankly outdated, and it's difficult for them to add new races and they typically use the same base bodies and modify them for new races. I really wish they did a complete overhaul with the whole system so that we could have a better character creator with better options. But most likely, if the dev team is going to take another body from another race and try to modify it to look a bit more muscular... I would say female highlander and female Roegadyn would be their best options if they don't make an entirely new body altogether. I personally wouldn't want a Miqo'te 2.0 either, since that'll just be boring and wouldn't fit a female Hrothgar at all since that's not what Hrothgar are supposed to be. As long as the body shape isn't something that looks hunched over and completely like a body builder then that would fit them how I imagine it would look like in my head at least.

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The character creator being kinda lackluster IS a perfectly valid complaint, but that isn't even what they were saying, either. If that's all it was, sure, I wouldn't have an issue, but it wasn't. If they do end up just using a base body again like with male Hrothgar, fem Roe would make the most sense, as they're closer in size/type to male Hrothgar than fem Highlander. I mean... an entirely new model would be better, but hey, can't have everything. My biggest complaint is them just being, as you said "Miqote 2.0". Honestly... they should have made a hunch toggle or something to begin with. I don't play male Hrothgar and likely never will, but I can see why some hate the hunch and others don't.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Sounds like they prefer female hrothgar to be slim, elegant, and beautiful. Am I missing anything?

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Again, not really close to what they were saying, and they were being pretty condescending about it, too, while actively acting like a beast-like race that is based off lions having any sort of bulk to them is somehow offensive. They wanted them to just be tall (I assume they want them to be tall) Miqote. In other words... taller humans with cat ears. We already have humans with cat ears, no reason to have another (just taller) that doesn't even look anything like the males. See Roda's example, which is much more cohesive with the male Hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Apologies for double post, but it's new-post-worthy :>

So to kind of follow up my realization that this image is basically a bald version of my miqo'te, I decided to do a little test to see how-


YEEEIIIUUGH!!~~
https://i.imgur.com/qUNTh7n.png

NOPE NUH-UH GROSS GROSS GROSS!

And then I decided to draw how the male and female hrothgar SHOULD compare.
https://i.imgur.com/C58zshl.png
I used the roe-female as a base, and gave her more curves from there.
I used the femroe hand-on-hip /cpose to match the hrothgar's pose. I didn't draw the hunch (because I'm bad at drawing hunches, foreshortening is hard ok?), but I would really like for the female hrothgar to have a few hunched /cposes to allow a bestial feel. (I would like to headcanon the Lost female hrothgars as queens who failed and lost their drones, or entirely rogue female hrothgars, so they would be a bit more feral and scary than the helion females, who could be more regal.)

I kind of want to draw the 4 face types and some "hair"styles now '3' (I really do like the idea that the females don't naturally grow hair/manes like the males do, but since hairstyles are a major way of character customization in games they DO have to have something to replace it, and I don't think there's anything else that our human brains could pay attention to that isn't at least an approximation of hair, so headdresses, and veils it is! Like I scratched onto the picture, the hairstyles that we earn can be considered wigs for fairness sake.)

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See the difference? The first is basically what they're arguing for, while Roda's edit makes much more sense.

EDIT: To add on to your edit... they were the person who brought up ideologies to begin with, so they should expect some backlash on that front.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

EDIT: To add on to your edit... they were the person who brought up ideologies to begin with, so they should expect some backlash on that front.

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Yeah, I'm aware. A few posters have done that now, actually. Just because people want something different, they are accused of having an "agenda" of some sort. It's like they're trying to fight against "wokeness" when it wasn't even there to begin with. Everyone has their own preference. Just because some people want the females to be on the bigger and bulkier side doesn't mean they are a professional victim on twitter or that they share ideologies with people in that place. Come on now. And when they're called out for implying things like this, they backpedal or pretend that isn't what they were doing. Incredibly disingenuous.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Hrothgar were a success though, player engagement wise. They outdid Roes of both varieties. However, like many have pointed out male and female character and racial design are two very different beast. What works for males most of the time does not work for females and vice-versa.

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Yup.
Looking at WoW, and I'd say that if Orc males are "The Rock" then Orc Females are Chris Evens with tits ... and the females make up only 20% of the Orc population. People who play males are ALWAYS more willing to play "big/ ugly/ buff" stuff than people who play females. Same way with how if you make a race pretty, both genders will be popular, but females will be more popular than males. You can even look at FF14, Male and Female Elezen have the same great sin of have long neck/ long arms/ tiny head yet over 10k more are willing to play Elezen Males.

Looking at how Hrothgar are doing, and they're decently well received for what they are (Roe with better proportions ... and ruined head options AND an ugly hunch). But they are clearly unpopular and without massive sexual dimorphism the female's population would be in so small that they might as well not be in the game. Tis why they seem to be taller Miqote/ updated Mithra.

Like, what even adds "diversity" to the game? The way some people here take it, you'd think that a movie full of white people with a single PoC in the background of 1 shot in 1 scene adds "diversity". If you barely see a thing, then it doesn't add jack.
Female Viera literally made it over 2X more likely for someone playing this game to see a tall female, that to me adds more visual diversity to the game than a hunched over Femroe with a cat head that less than 5k people WW would play. Femroe's numbers are so tiny that some DCs iirc have less than 10 active Femroe, that's the population that needs "more options"?
You're not gonna make Female Miqote less popular/ represented with that. People joke about the MV avalanche coming for Cat bois, but there's more than enough Middie males and Cat Bois to survive the number of MV converts that will come, and when they come they will add a new look and flair for most of the people who like playing males. They won't cannibalize some tiny portion of the player base.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Yeah, I'm aware. A few posters have done that now, actually. Just because people want something different, they are accused of having an "agenda" of some sort. It's like they're trying to fight against "wokeness" when it wasn't even there to begin with. Everyone has their own preference. Just because some people want the females to be on the bigger and bulkier side doesn't mean they are a professional victim on twitter or that they share ideologies with people in that place. Come on now. And when they're called out for implying things like this, they backpedal or pretend that isn't what they were doing. Incredibly disingenuous.

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Pretty much... which is where my "misogyny" comment came from originally. I suppose it was a bit on the nose for this forum, but the poster's comments that were insinuating those who were arguing in favor of not having Miqote 2.0 were somehow part of the extremely vocal twitter minority irritated me. And, ya know... the blatant disgust for females with any sort of bulk. Preference is one thing; I prefer men with no beards, while some women like beards, which is fine. The posters' comments were another thing entirely. Case in point... Reivaxes' comment above that female Orcs are just "Chris Evans with tits." I'm not even going to touch everything that's wrong with that entire post because it's just not worth it.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Looking at how Hrothgar are doing, and they're decently well received for what they are (Roe with better proportions ... and ruined head options AND an ugly hunch). But they are clearly unpopular

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And yet they were still added into the game.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Femroe's numbers are so tiny that some DCs iirc have less than 10 active Femroe, that's the population that needs "more options"?

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No, people just want one beast option for females.

Midlander, Highlander, Femroe, whatever, body type is a preference, but can we at least all be in agreement that they should have cat faces like the males and not human faces? we already have human [girls] with cat ears, we absolutely do not need another one, specially when said human with cat ears are by far the most popular race/gender combo. It'd be mindbogglingly redundant.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Midlander, Highlander, Femroe, whatever, body type is a preference, but can we at least all be in agreement that they should have cat faces like the males and not human faces? we already have human [girls] with cat ears, we absolutely do not need another one, specially when said human with cat ears are by far the most popular race/gender combo. It'd be mindbogglingly redundant.

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I don't think you'll get most of the naysayers to agree with this, given how deadset they are on just "humans with cat ears+tail" they are. Why have variety when you can have the same thing cut and pasted, but slightly taller?

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

I don't think you'll get most of the naysayers to agree with this, given how deadset they are on just "humans with cat ears+tail" they are. Why have variety when you can have the same thing cut and pasted, but slightly taller?

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I've seen the overwhelming majority of people agreeing to a feline head, as heads are what make races mostly unique. Most of the arguing has been over body type.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I've seen the overwhelming majority of people agreeing to a feline head, as heads are what make races mostly unique. Most of the arguing has been over body type.

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A lot of people in this thread (prior to these last few pages) were in favor of that art from the book... which is lit just fem Miqote with larger breasts. The face doesn't even look remotely beast-like.

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Originally Posted by Senn

And yet they were still added into the game.

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And?

Anyone can see that there's a market for big buff dudes that Roebros were not servicing, giving their problems wearing gear. Just like anyone could see that even though Female Elezen were LESS popular than Roebros there were still likely people who would play tall females given how popular Elf races are in games. Buff women? Nope, those are always the bottom of the barrel, and there's nothing technically wrong with Thighlanders and Femroe. People don't play those because they REALLY don't like playing muscle women.

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No, people just want one beast option for females.

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No, people want a hunched over JACKED meth goblin to shower SE with woke points for adding because of "meh gender meme! Sexual dimorphism is BAD" just so that they can turn around and ignore it when completely predictably only a handful of Femroe actually play them, resulting in the new least played race and a colossal waste of time and resources for a game that's not getting new races after this.

Like, there's a reason so much of this is focused on their body and not their face. You can make a Miqote with a cat like face. Doesn't have to be hunched or jacked or tall to be a beast race.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Midlander, Highlander, Femroe, whatever, body type is a preference, but can we at least all be in agreement that they should have cat faces like the males and not human faces?

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Nope.
I'm beyond that at this point. If we were in the dark then I'd keep talking about my furry pref, but we're not. The devs have given us more than enough to indicate what they're going for with Hrothgals, and I'm not gonna tell them what they SHOULD or SHOULDN'T do with their game. I personally accepted what they're showing us the moment I saw it, and it makes prefect logical sense to me.

Looks like we've hit a buzzword bingo

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Buff women? Nope, those are always the bottom of the barrel, and there's nothing technically wrong with Thighlanders and Femroe. People don't play those because they REALLY don't like playing muscle women.

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I mean, female Norns in GW II are 9 ft tall thicc women and they're popular, so maybe, just maybe, Femroes [or Roegadyn in general really] are just not popular, not because they're big or buff, but because they're underwhelmingly designed compared to the other races, so even people who like big women just don't play them because they're "meh" at best (doesn't help that a lot of the gear and even hairstyles caters to 'cutesy' styles that really only fit the smaller races, but that's a topic for another day)

Hrothgar and Viera are essentially "Roes and Elezen done right", and I'm expecting the same for Hrothgals, whether they go with a Highlander or Femroe body

I just find this whole thing ridiculous over arguing what the body of female Hrothgar should be to the point people are throwing around pointless buzzwords at each other like "misogyny" or "woke". There are better things that can be done with our time than arguing over something that we have no idea what the final product looks like aside from a vague mural or an art book illustration. Only the development team knows what design they're going with, although it would be nice if the female Hrothgar come out like the majority here wants them to; we won't know until they reveal them. If they come out more human like, fine, that would be disappointing but there's nothing we can do about it if the dev team decides to go with it. If they come out more bestial (please no hunch); then fantastic! But we won't know until eventually they are ready to be playable.

This is literally devolving into the mess that was arguing over the MViera height of short verses tall, and we all know how utterly irritating/messy that became after awhile. So let's just dial back the mudslinging of buzzwords and chill out; and mayhap talk about what head shapes we want instead? Or perhaps specific racial hairs? Maybe even specific tail shapes or race specific options that you would want to be toggleable.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I mean, female Norns in GW II are 9 ft tall thicc women and they're popular, so maybe, just maybe, Femroes [or Roegadyn in general really] are just not popular, not because they're big or buff, but because they're underwhelmingly designed compared to the other races, so even people who like big women just don't play them because they're "meh" at best (doesn't help that a lot of the gear and even hairstyles caters to 'cutesy' styles that really only fit the smaller races, but that's a topic for another day)

Hrothgar and Viera are essentially "Roes and Elezen done right", and I'm expecting the same for Hrothgals, whether they go with a Highlander or Femroe body

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I'm hoping femroe as a base, but have the body be a bit more curvy. More dramatic hips and thighs, (keeping the strong neck, back, core, and arms) etc. Where the femroe's body is an inverted triangle, female hrothgar would be an hourglass, while still not having them be thin like every other female character model (except potato).
(I mean, I posted it a few pages back lol)

I'm uh, I'm gonna post something... eventually.
Working on the 4 heads + racial hair options. ...and maybe block out a few emotes.. and the /cposes... and /sits...
Because I'm crazy.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

...

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"I decided this is what people want/are like, therefore I am right and will do no sort of self-reflection to see if, just maybe, I am part of the problem, just as the ones on the other end of the extreme are."

There, I fixed it for you. I'll also be as polite as possible when I say your post just looks like you slammed your keys on the keyboard without even bothering to even read any of the reasonable arguments people have made.

I've played a fem Roe since I started FFXIV because I like how they look, and the other options bored me. I imagine those who also play fem Roes are much the same, and aren't doing it for "woke points" or w/e. As I said before, I despise extreme political views because they tick me off, and your posts absolutely fall on one end of them. I was arguing in favor of not having Miqote 2.0 because there's no reason to when they already exist, extreme dimorphism looks ridiculous (because it does. lit no-one said dimorphism itself is "bad")and I like cohesion in a player species.

While I wasn't even going to play fem Hrothgar (I DID say I don't have a horse in this race in my first post in this thread), if they end up not looking like Miqote 2.0 (or just humans with a crappy fur texture) I'll play one just to spite people like you. I was planning to make another alt at some point anyway, so why not? May as well be them.

I have notice FemRoe tend to take criticism of their race harder than most. Just an observation.

This current discussion path is pretty familiar, so instead of rewriting out replies, here's some excerpts:

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

If they are going to be a beast race, I agree that they should look like beasts, as in the features. I do not think they should be as muscular as males however, that would really put me off, personally. I'd rather have them slimmer, but fit. Like I muscular Khajiit or something (features).

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

This is what we'd get except human feet, and no claws.

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...barbrawl19.jpg

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It's too bad we would never get the feet or claws. Sorry we would get the claws, but they would be racial gear rather than actual claws.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, I can guarantee that people largely wouldn't want to play a hrothgar with a roe body. Doesn't matter if they had a human or more animal face. The body would completely ruin it. (...)

One thing I really hope they would get right for female hrothgar/male viera, is animations though. Male hrothgar being hunched over is one of the biggest complaints I see for them.

Also, I'd guess those Bless cats were probably really popular, though they also have the unique feet and everything going on. All we'd get is the head/face, it's too bad.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It's not plausible. SE wouldn't make wigs - which are full on hairstyles - that only hrothgar females could use. We have yet to see a single new actual hairstyle for viera. If they can't do tail bow ties, ear cutouts for miqo'te, etc. they aren't going to do anything unique to this extent for female hrothgar.

Before the argument, "well then everyone can use wigs", remember SE saying "unique head shape" it wouldn't work out. They could do it, they just won't do it. I think.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I have notice FemRoe tend to take criticism of their race harder than most. Just an observation.

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Methinks you are projecting a bit much.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I have notice FemRoe tend to take criticism of their race harder than most. Just an observation.

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Considering that's not even remotely what happened, and any reasonable adult can see as much from the posts in the last few pages... If that's what you want to say because you're fishing for reactions again (per usual) that you won't get, be my guest chief.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

No, people want a hunched over JACKED meth goblin to shower SE with woke points for adding because of "meh gender meme! Sexual dimorphism is BAD"

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reeeeeee woke points, twitter bad, vocal minority, snowflakes, propaganda, pandering, illuminati confirmed reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Did you get it all out now? Feel better? I get the disdain for "wokeness" because I don't like it either, but that's not what's going on in this thread. This is just irrational. Have you considered you're like the people on twitter you find obnoxious, just on the opposite side of the spectrum? Consider centering yourself.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Looks like we've hit a buzzword bingo

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I'm pretty close to hitting bingo. Still waiting on a few more spaces like "virtue signaling", "safe space", or complaining about blue hair.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

To be fair blue hair got ruined over a very short internet generation.

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You're not wrong.

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Originally Posted by Senn

reeeeeee woke points, twitter bad, vocal minority, snowflakes, propaganda, pandering, illuminati confirmed reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Did you get it all out now? Feel better? I get the disdain for "wokeness" because I don't like it either, but that's not what's going on in this thread. This is just irrational. Have you considered you're like the people on twitter you find obnoxious, just on the opposite side of the spectrum? Consider centering yourself.


I'm pretty close to hitting bingo. Still waiting on a few more spaces like "virtue signaling", "safe space", or complaining about blue hair.

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To be fair blue hair got ruined over a very short internet generation.

What is this blue hair thing so I can be offended by it?!

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

What is this blue hair thing so I can be offended by it?!

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It's because Scott Pilgirm vs the World Ruined a Whole Generation.

After a while of interacting with certain types, you start picking up on the signs and general trends in people's behavior. Namely, a common theme is changing something to be so "unique!" despite not wanting to actually buy/participate in said thing. Why should those who want a slimmer, more elegant version of female hrothgar that is distinctly different from the males and the things that made them unpopular yield to those who would saddle them with the same design choices that people by and large rejected? Especially when they do not make up a majority in this or any video game, and would not even fantasia to the race.

In terms of a face, obviously they would have something that resembles a lioness, mithra, pantera, hrothgar, take your pick. There will probably be a younger/rougher/mature looking face though how they are distributed for this race would depend on their lion/tiger/cheetah/(discount kimahri?) equivalents. When it comes to their body, most people will not pay to fantasia to something that looks like femroe 2.0 or Abby. No one really would mind if female hrothgar are more toned than one of the softer races, but large muscles on a woman just doesn't appeal to most.

When I think of a race whose females have been thus far depicted as queens and shrine maidens who read the stars, instead of drawing upon female Tauren of all things the next thing that it called to mind was something along the lines of a female night elf's body. As far as I'm aware, they are priestesses and had at some point a very prominent queen.

https://krot.info/uploads/posts/2021...artinki-15.jpg

From what I can see this is not that far off from the body they've already developed for Misija. Give us this but a lioness version with a noble-looking face and long hair, and you've sold me on this race/gender combination.

Yeah, it's actually funny to me. Like, how would femhroth even bring diversity in the world and player chosen races, if only a fraction of a percentage of players would even play or switch to them in the first place, due to them looking like muscle bound brutes? Please don't conflate it with supposedly wanting "miqo'te 2.0" either. I don't even like miqo'te in the first place. I would just rather have them actually look appealing. It's a beast race which is a niche, a female one at that, and then to top it all off, for people to want them hunched over and muscle bound? Nah.. When I picture a femhroth, I picture a proud warrior woman, fit, and confident in her strength and femininity, as it is also a matriarchal society (if I recall). When I refer to wanting them to look good, I literally mean it as written. Not taller catgirls, I would just prefer them to look good. To actually see variety in the world, with a race that a larger group of players would actually play, and that fits thematically. I'm sorry, I just don't see femhroth as lumbering brutes, that's where my arguments have always come from (citing previous quotes from years ago).

So (yes) the resources spent are worth it, and they don't turn out like male viera. Although, I will commend SE for fixing a lot of the limiting issues that were present on female viera, for male viera.

The only reason that male hroths are muscular is because male characters have more base bodies. Females do not have a beefy equivalent: sans lalas, all playable females share the same midlander base. None of them have massive muscles. None of them look like Abby. In fact, its very difficult to make a character in this game even remotely like Abby because even if you set your bust slider to zero and muscle definition to 100, 99% of gear has fixed sizes that they warp your character to. My viera has a small bust set in the creator but you cannot tell unless I put her in one of the old bikinis because gear is one size fits all. They're not going to look like Abby. The option isnt even on the table.

When people ask for female hroths to be appropriate to the male counterpart most aren't asking for a male hrothgar with lipstick, they want something that looks like they'd logically make sense standing next to their kin. Magnus was married and had a child. Imagine what his family logically looked like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I would just prefer them to look good. To actually see variety in the world, with a race that a larger group of players would actually play...

...So (yes) the resources spent are worth it, and they don't turn out like male viera. Although, I will commend SE for fixing a lot of the limiting issues that were present on female viera, for male viera.

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Wait, you want them to appeal to the masses but don't let them look like male viera..who *checks notes* appeal to the masses?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Wait, you want them to appeal to the masses but don't let them look like male viera..who *checks notes* appeal to the masses?

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I'm in the minority that thinks male viera don't look very good. To me, their lore is weird, their options are lacking, and to top it off their pose is odd. I would have much rather seen femhroth, before male viera, but SE probably understands that femhroth are a niche within a niche to begin with, AND male viera were very highly requested too. So, male viera are definite fantasia sales. Femhroth already have established lore in this game, and the reasoning for their exclusion is shaky at best, in my opinion. In addition to that, the hrothgar queen should have been a hrothgar queen.

What I meant by "turn out like male viera", is they go the route of trying to please both parties and pleasing none, no doubt they'll still be fairly popular regardless, but I'm just being real. It wouldn't turn out as well for femhroth. Also, granted, male viera design definitely will please one side more than the other (referencing years worth of arguments in the male viera thread).

I didn't say "appeal to the masses" either, I said "a larger group of players". No matter what they do, it'll be a niche race, but with less of a monstrous or brutish design (with no hunched back) it may be inviting for more players, and we may see more players actually purchase a fantasia specifically to switch to a femhroth, and continue to play as one.

Woof, that's a lot of pages to read through...

Uuuuh, just make the female Hrothgar make sense with the males. Easy. Niche playable races get niche solutions.