Confirmation of Uncapped Raids. Confirmation of a terrible decision.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

I think it is unacceptable to force r50 players into a r30 dungeon to get r50 gear. SE should design it so that a r50 can get r50 gear in r50 content. Why do you suppose this would be ok?

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it doesnt have to be r50 gear, it just has to be useful to an r50. for example

a weapon that is level 30, that can be upgraded to being a higher level weapon.

some form of currency that can be used to upgrade, or buy higher level items.

some item drop that is useful across many levels, like leaping boots or peacock charm

this wouldnt be forcing you, because you can simply get the r50 dungeon equivalents, or get that currency in the r50 dunegon, but it would give you a reason to do the dungeons, and would still be useful to a higher level theoretically, if only for having more oppurtunities to get stuff per reset.

Also since the content is 25 -30 then the next one is all the way at 45, it would give people from 30-45 something to do that wasnt easymode, but still gave a goal they could work towards.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Another eloquent and logical argument. Thank you.

I am NOT being sarcastic!

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its a fanatsy game, in all honesty the concept of "level" at all is completely immersion breaking. Even still its easy to say the enemies in this area adapt to the level of their opponent, or the area has a suppression field to limit the abilities of those in the area, which even makes sense considering one place is a prison for notorious enemies. this is fiction, the only limit is your imagination

wow, most mature thing in this thread


im not a bot, i just play WAY too damn much, as anyone who knows me in game can tell you

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Originally Posted by Physic

it doesnt have to be r50 gear, it just has to be useful to an r50. for example

a weapon that is level 30, that can be upgraded to being a higher level weapon.

some form of currency that can be used to upgrade, or buy higher level items.

some item drop that is useful across many levels, like leaping boots or peacock charm

this wouldnt be forcing you, because you can simply get the r50 dungeon equivalents, or get that currency in the r50 dunegon, but it would give you a reason to do the dungeons, and would still be useful to a higher level theoretically, if only for having more oppurtunities to get stuff per reset.

Also since the content is 25 -30 then the next one is all the way at 45, it would give people from 30-45 something to do that wasnt easymode, but still gave a goal they could work towards.

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Ok two points: 1) I think anything gear wise that would be useful to a r50 in a r30 dungeon is unacceptable and cheating r50s out of content they should be able to accomplish within content of an appropriate level. 2) IF r50s got upgradeable gear from a r50 dungeon AND could farm upgrade mats from a r30 dungeon THEN I could see a point in capping a r30 dungeon because then r50s would have a reason to run 2 different dungeons for the same progression.

See? I can be reasonable. The issue is, the Devs have announced that the dungeons are uncapped which leads me to believe that a) there is no concurrent progression between the 2 dungeons and b) there shouldn't be any gear in a r30 dungeon that is desirable on a r50 character. Hopefully the Dev Team has already thought of that, but you never know.

Likewise, I have made my admission, can you concede the point that if their is no progression or gear that any r50 class could possibly desire over something else in game, that their is little reason to cap it for a r50 player?

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Ok two points: 1) I think anything gear wise that would be useful to a r50 in a r30 dungeon is unacceptable and cheating r50s out of content they should be able to accomplish within content of an appropriate level. 2) IF r50s got upgradeable gear from a r50 dungeon AND could farm upgrade mats from a r30 dungeon THEN I could see a point in capping a r30 dungeon because then r50s would have a reason to run 2 different dungeons for the same progression.

See? I can be reasonable. The issue is, the Devs have announced that the dungeons are uncapped which leads me to believe that a) there is no concurrent progression between the 2 dungeons and b) there shouldn't be any gear in a r30 dungeon that is desirable on a r50 character. Hopefully the Dev Team has already thought of that, but you never know.

Likewise, I have made my admission, can you concede the point that if their is no progression or gear that any r50 class could possibly desire over something else in game, that their is little reason to cap it for a r50 player?

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i do concede that if there is nothing useful in a level 30 dungeon than it is going to be crappy content for a level 50, and many wont go.

So from the persective of a level 50, capping the dungeon wont give it much purpose.

problem is from the perspective of a level 25-30 player, it still has a huge effect on what the normal means of playing that dungeon becomes. and the worth or style of play that will be encouraged for getting those items. they may go your route, and say screw it. But lets be honest we both know in that case the dungeons will mainly be powerlevel assisted playing, with very few people doing it at actual difficulty.


But really at the end of the day i think putting something that is useful to players of many levels in some way shape or form, and having cap on the dungeon, or some other risk versus reward protector is the best system for making strong long lasting content for the game itself.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Which is exactly what the "PRO-CAPPED" side is doing too. That is all either side is doing. So far the numbers don't support our side but that doesn't mean we won't continue to not support the idea. All we can do is put forth as logical and compelling arguments as we can and try to make our points heard, even if they unpopular.

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My main concern is the time it would take to implement a capped or scaled system, I would rather SE sink those resources into adding unique content and not focusing on making the very little content they have more repeatable.

Hm I honestly could care less about the cap. What bothers me is the amount of people. I thought we were going to get regular dungeons that require like 6-8 people. Then we were going to get RAIDS not 8 people raids thats not a raid -.-, but a 15 man party. :X

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Originally Posted by Physic

to you i ask again, if the dungeon has a reward that is useful for all levels, should they cap or uncap the dungeon?

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Good question that I hope they answer.

They want freedom, but don't realize that you won't have much choice to be r50 and as X or Y job to find a 4-man group to go in, if theres an interesting reward like marks, points, special ring or whatever else in. No scaling cap WILL limit players choices in the end, and make the r30 people frustated.

While we're there, a scaling cap would also allow someone to play with their friends 10 ranks higher without huge penalty. Isn't that the freedom you ask for ?

Find new arguments other than:

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thits about them wanting to force you to experience the same way they do

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We're doign the exact opposite, but you don't realize that a scaling cap opens up many possibilities, and no cap will make 99% of the community just use the most efficient way (ie. accepting a r30 MAR in your 4 man party is a waste of time). Does Dunesfolks for Dinner rings a bell ? Ever saw shouts for Devilet's Best Friend ?

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Originally Posted by Physic

it doesnt have to be r50 gear, it just has to be useful to an r50. for example

a weapon that is level 30, that can be upgraded to being a higher level weapon.

some form of currency that can be used to upgrade, or buy higher level items.

some item drop that is useful across many levels, like leaping boots or peacock charm

this wouldnt be forcing you, because you can simply get the r50 dungeon equivalents, or get that currency in the r50 dunegon, but it would give you a reason to do the dungeons, and would still be useful to a higher level theoretically, if only for having more oppurtunities to get stuff per reset.

Also since the content is 25 -30 then the next one is all the way at 45, it would give people from 30-45 something to do that wasnt easymode, but still gave a goal they could work towards.

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you are using hypothetical issues to base your argument on, none of that stuff could be in there.

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Originally Posted by Physic

i do concede that if there is nothing useful in a level 30 dungeon than it is going to be crappy content for a level 50, and many wont go.

So from the persective of a level 50, capping the dungeon wont give it much purpose.

problem is from the perspective of a level 25-30 player, it still has a huge effect on what the normal means of playing that dungeon becomes. and the worth or style of play that will be encouraged for getting those items. they may go your route, and say screw it. But lets be honest we both know in that case the dungeons will mainly be powerlevel assisted playing, with very few people doing it at actual difficulty.


But really at the end of the day i think putting something that is useful to players of many levels in some way shape or form, and having cap on the dungeon, or some other risk versus reward protector is the best system for making strong long lasting content for the game itself.

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You could find a problem for anything from any perspective. I think what it comes down to is trying to include as many people as possible. If you cap the dungeon at 30-35, you're going to EXCLUDE the 50s that have no interest returning to their r30 days. If you UNCAP the dungeon, you're technically not excluding anyone. Is it going to change the meaningfulness of the accomplishment? Perhaps! Does it make the gear easier to get? Of course! Does it exclude anyone? Not really.

By not excluding anyone, I think SE is banking on making the r30 dungeon as playable as it can be for everyone. You're not going to get all the gear you want in one run, regardless of how easy or hard the dungeon is. Even if you are helping out a level 30 as a rank 50, it's going to take you maybe 10-15 runs to get all the gear for that person's job. That is what I call replayable content!

As far as meaningfulness, it is r30 content that is not designed to be part of any really meaningful progression. If that is the case, then why cap it at all and there-by guaranteeing the Dev team that any 50s who don't want to run a r30 dungeon more than a couple times capped will be screaming for content again sooner rather than later.