Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

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Originally Posted by Llugen

I mean, I'm pretty sure that's the very first thing I said in this thread is how ridiculous rez dispensing is and how, after their stance of "raise is very powerful" for all of 2.x and 3.x, they decide "here take this class that can pump out raise lemayo". I'm shocked they didn't nerf it right then and there, but based on the fact that they didn't, nor still, nor does it look like they will, here I am. Preaching about how BLM deserves access to a Raise tool to compete.

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You also completely ignored its cost. Any red mage that decides to spam Verraise is doing so through Dualcast, and is therefore spending MP on Vercure/Verraise or Jolt II/Verraise per pair. Enough of that in a short time, and the red mage is out of MP, leaving only crap, non-enchanted weaponskills to do damage (red mage's primary function), and this is sometimes even true with Lucid Dreaming, which is red mage's only way to get MP back without relying on another party member.

In the meantime, summoner has no MP problems thanks to Aetherflow and Energy Drain, but has to give up 7-8 seconds or Swiftcast for Resurrection and therefore cannot spam it like red mage. Black mage has no MP problems at all just due to how Umbral Ice works, but also simply does not have the time nor desire to bother with a Raise variant.

And then there's all the other reasons in this entire thread as to why black mage should not get Raise. Which you ignored or slandered.

Which is why I refuse to take you seriously.

You can argue till the moon turns purple, he will still say blm should get a raise for balance purposes...

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Originally Posted by Maero

You can argue till the moon turns purple, he will still say blm should get a raise for balance purposes...

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Right but he seems to confuse balance with every job being more or less the same as opposed to every job fills a usable niche.

I say let them have it(if just to stop people from complaining that it's missing), except it costs the same as Flare, but with a 3min CD. Cast time is 7sec, cannot be shortened in any way(Swiftcast or Spell Speed or anything else).

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Originally Posted by Avatre

I say let them have it(if just to stop people from complaining that it's missing), except it costs the same as Flare, but with a 3min CD. Cast time is 7sec, cannot be shortened in any way(Swiftcast or Spell Speed or anything else).

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Sure, so long as Summoners lose Lucid Dreaming, Raise requires 3 aetherflows, and it can't be reduced in cast time in any way.

It's called parity, and it's important.

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

Right but he seems to confuse balance with every job being more or less the same as opposed to every job fills a usable niche.

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Not only that i fail to see how a raise could fit in a blm rotation or why one would want to bother. Raise on Red Mage fits perfectly for that job and is fine on smn

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Sure, so long as Summoners lose Lucid Dreaming, Raise requires 3 aetherflows, and it can't be reduced in cast time in any way.

It's called parity, and it's important.

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Then this would have to be the same for SCH as well seeing as the base job ACN uses Ressurection and that would also have to have the same requirement to cast it. This would also greatly effect SMN rotation which already has it's big damage busters locked behind Aetherflow. No job should have to suffer this much for a silly rez change.

I really hope that 4.2 brings what we need for BLM.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

I say let them have it(if just to stop people from complaining that it's missing), except it costs the same as Flare, but with a 3min CD. Cast time is 7sec, cannot be shortened in any way(Swiftcast or Spell Speed or anything else).

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Which would still make the utility of their Raise useless, especially considering SMN and RDM can Raise without having to wait 3 minutes to do so each time (even if RDM’s Verraise was “nerfed” to no longer utilitize the Dualcast trait), and that’s another reason why I disagree with all of Llugen’s suggestions about giving BLM a Raise in the first place (I read up to page 30 and then skipped to the end to just drop my two gil a few pages back because it was just getting repetitive). Why give a BLM a Raise with a 180-second cooldown (or any other arbitrary mechanic like the tether mechanic) when you can take a SMN or a RDM (or, you know, just have the healer raise the dead player) since their Raises don’t have arbitrary cooldowns that make them useful only 2~3 times during a given fight, maybe 4 if the fight lasts as long as V4S? Giving BLM an oGCD, 180-second cooldown Raise is not going to set them apart from the other two casters. And I’m against the homogenization of jobs within a role anyways.

BLM does not need a Raise. It needs massive damage adjustments so that it can pull more damage AND make up for any rDPS/utility a group would sacrifice if they chose a BLM over a RDM or SMN. If BLM wants to have utility, I like the idea of a raid-wide Manawall. It would be similar to a WAR’s SiO (albeit, maybe a bit weaker since SiO benefits from WAR’s defensive kit), provide utility, and not be as arbitrary as a Raise locked behind a cooldown. But then that brings up the issue of weaving in oGCDs on BLM, and while I don’t play the job at any optimized level, I know that weaving oGCDs on BLM is not particiuarly easy all the time.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

BLM does not need a Raise. It needs massive damage adjustments so that it can pull more damage AND make up for any rDPS/utility a group would sacrifice if they chose a BLM over a RDM or SMN.

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The issue with this is you can't just give more damage, especially massive damage, for effectively no more effort than now.

It might be a compelling choice at the very top end, but as you start moving back down, a Black mage dealing 'massively more damage' than it is now starts dominating and throwing content out of whack everywhere else, even in less than optimized savage parties. Throwing Samurai and Black Mage into the stratosphere because "Selfish DPS" is awful because then you have to balance encounters and everyone else around that. Everyone else suffers for it until the buff cycle comes back around (though in this case more likely nerf) and then you're back at square 1.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

The issue with this is you can't just give more damage, especially massive damage, for effectively no more effort than now.

It might be a compelling choice at the very top end, but as you start moving back down, a Black mage dealing 'massively more damage' than it is now starts dominating and throwing content out of whack everywhere else, even in less than optimized savage parties. Throwing Samurai and Black Mage into the stratosphere because "Selfish DPS" is awful because then you have to balance encounters and everyone else around that. Everyone else suffers for it until the buff cycle comes back around (though in this case more likely nerf) and then you're back at square 1.

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Of course you can. Because the effort required to do good DPS now is just as much, if not even more than other jobs. Why should BLM have to become more difficult to match the performance of other classes?

Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy difficulty and would welcome it. As long as every other class becomes more difficult alongside it.