It's about time to add Coil story mode, isn't it ?

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Originally Posted by Ossom

If you want the ending of the story, then unlock it.

If you want to see the ending of a game, then beat it.

Idk why people cry about not getting content given to them on this game, but not others. How would you sound if you were playing FF12 or something and were like "I can't beat the last boss but I want to know how the story ends, they should patch in a way to skip the boss to the end of the story, or just make the boss even easier."

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stop pretending to not understand. SE said it themselves that they expected 5% of the playerbase to beat Coil when they create the raid. you're blaming people for not be able to beat content that they purposely designed to make most of the players fail.

and those single player FFs are easier than this game. do you think 80% of the FF12 players cannot beat Vayne Solidor?

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Originally Posted by Mercutial

I made the same point some pages back. The counter is going to be that this is not a single player game. I don't think this makes a difference either way, but you've been warned....

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hmm well, yeah, exactly. While similar in principle, multiplayer and solo games have totally different mechanics to make up for the increased number of players (and thankfully ^^)

If this was a regular "uber hard boss" FF-esque whom I could tackle with my own character only (aka solo game mechanics) there would be no problem (I guess) clearing it once figured out.

But in a multi player view, you have to make sure everyone in the party knows what to do, how to do it, adapt the plan to what's going on, etc etc... different stuff.


But with that said, what I would say to tackle Ossom's point is :
FFxii's final boss is akin to Gaius van Baelsar (or rather, Ultima). Coil would be Ridorana's catacombs, or even Zodiarch. But with that difference that the entire story of FFxii would make no sense until you beat him (Zodiarch would be the one controlling the empire, can't have the true ending without beating him)

In FFx, it would be that Der Richter and the final boss in the arena are Sin's cores and must be destroyed to free Spira once for all.


If you played 1.0 (or if you payed attention to the opening cutscene), the entire 2.0 world makes no sense until you beat T12. That's the point.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

and those single player FFs are easier than this game. do you think 80% of the FF12 players cannot beat Vayne Solidor?

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I'm pretty sure 80% of FF2 players can't beat the game :p
but to be honest, they probably won't go further than the ice caves, at the beginning....

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Originally Posted by Evangela

stop pretending to not understand. SE said it themselves that they expected 5% of the playerbase to beat Coil when they create the raid. you're blaming people for not be able to beat content that they purposely designed to make most of the players fail.

and those single player FFs are easier than this game. do you think 80% of the FF12 players cannot beat Vayne Solidor?

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It is why the community cannot be taken seriously. First they want it difficult, they get it, and now they want a hand holding, easy mode. You want to see Coil's story? Well, either get good and find a group to tackle it within your time limitations, or wait till the gear level is high enough that you can face roll the content (like T1-4 is right now).

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Originally Posted by Velhart

It is why the community cannot be taken seriously. First they want it difficult, they get it, and now they want a hand holding, easy mode.

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Or..this is a stretch here...we can just acknowledge that the community is diverse with different types of people with different wants and needs. You won't get useful data from trying to lump us all together. Even Square understands different players have different wants. It's not like the community flip flops. You're just seeing different sides arguing what they want.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

stop pretending to not understand. SE said it themselves that they expected 5% of the playerbase to beat Coil when they create the raid. you're blaming people for not be able to beat content that they purposely designed to make most of the players fail.

and those single player FFs are easier than this game. do you think 80% of the FF12 players cannot beat Vayne Solidor?

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Well then either be part of that 5%, or watch it on Youtube. You are going to outgear the fight by 3.0 anyway, so coil becomes easier and easier as time goes on. Also I am p. sure that 5% statistic was for the current coil, not the coil from back in 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Magis

Well then either be part of that 5%, or watch it on Youtube. You are going to outgear the fight by 3.0 anyway, so coil becomes easier and easier as time goes on. Also I am p. sure that 5% statistic was for the current coil, not the coil from 2.0.

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This.
http://i.imgur.com/JSBTl.gif

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Originally Posted by Kallera

If that is perpetually kept from its main audience,if we have to resort to free methods of entertainment to get plot closure, then why should we pay for the game that, for all of its casual reputation, pulled a bait and switch in providing the last act?

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It's not kept from its audience though. Nothing is preventing people from getting their Coil story fix (especially in the BCoB and SCoB). Both of those original tiers (which people complain about the most) are doable in DF. You just have to queue up more than once. You can't get dragged through it with your body on the ground.

Raiders support everyone doing the content, but they don't support it being dumbed down further and further. What good is it to complete the content and then expect to go back when it's nerfed? If SE listened to the super casual who want it nerfed to the point of basically single player style, then it won't be replayable content for anyone. It'll be dead content worse than BCoB already is.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

stop pretending to not understand. SE said it themselves that they expected 5% of the playerbase to beat Coil when they create the raid.

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Except that what a majority of people here are talking about is old content. SE has proven time and time again to not be connected with its playerbase so when they say 5%, I'm sure they were blown away with the actual number that decided to go and beat Coil. I'm sure they considered only a small handful of NA players would want something to do with it too, but lookit what happened. Endgame is a strong point in all MMOs that have it. It's content that becomes replayable. Casual and more difficult endgame content are what keep the subscriptions coming.

Stop pretending that no one ever does endgame and stop pretending that we're still talking about the coil that they are referring to in their 5%. Nerfed coil does not fall under that 5%. As they nerfed it, they expected to open it up further. Just because a vocal group on the forums can't finish it doesn't mean that the uninterested (in these forums) players in game don't bother with endgame in its current state.

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

You don't know these people or their reasoning.

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Trending reasons are:

a) I paid for the game, so I am entitled to the story
b) Real-life obligations make it difficult for me to clear the content, but I still want to enjoy the story
c) The content is dated and the rewards irrelevant, but the current ilvl discrepancy, Echo bonuses, and DF additions are insufficient to facilitate clearing the content

I strongly dispute c), but it's a subjective case. I'll address a) and b) with an analogy:

Let's say you and some schoolmates have an informal book club. You pick up a book: something relatively dense, but popular - like House of Leaves. You are all set to meet at the end of the month to discuss it, but you can't finish the thing. It's not that you're too dumb to figure it out; it's just that you don't have enough time to appreciate it. You have a full load of school credits, day-to-day duties at home, BF/GF, part-time work; you don't commute, so you can't read it on the bus. You only have maybe 1-2 hours a night (and not even every night) to read.

The end of the month finally arrives and you are behind on your reading. Your mates are excited to talk about it, but you confess you haven't finished. "Why not?" You were busy. "Fair enough; I guess you can go then." Well, now hold on. You paid for the book and you tried your best. You should be able to participate in the discussion. "Not worth it if you haven't finished it. It's not an easy book, but it's far more satisfying to uncover things yourself than have it spelled out for you." That's not fair. You wanted this story, you paid for this story; it's not okay for it to be walled behind pages and pages of meaningless annotations.

Someone in your circle suggests maybe House of Leaves isn't for you and maybe some lighter reading would align better with your lifestyle. You wanted this one because all your mates were going to read it and you heard it was good, and the only reason you can't get into it is because of real-life obligations. Your mates understand, but the book is what it is. If you simply can't afford to put in the effort, there's no point discussing it.

Later that night, you find yourself on the House of Leaves fan forums making a new thread: "It's about time to add a HoL story mode, isn't it?" In the thread, you point out the book has been out for over a decade and all the dedicated readers have long since finished it and reaped the intellectual rewards. Danielewski has released other books since then, too. At this point, shouldn't other people be able to enjoy the story more easily? Shouldn't Danielewski dial back the complexity far enough for readers to breeze through it?

A respondent to your thread suggests reading Cliffnotes for the book, to which you reply:

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

And shut up with the cliffnotes suggestion; it's stupid. People want to actually be involved in the material.. because, you know... there's actual story in it.

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I hope we've reached the tipping point into the absurd.

Thinking about it a lot of this could be remedied by just letting people enter dungeons without being in a Party and or having to queue for DF to get in, form a group, or go in solo when you have outleveled/outgeared the area.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Trending reasons are:
a) I paid for the game, so I am entitled to the story
b) Real-life obligations make it difficult for me to clear the content, but I still want to enjoy the story
c) The content is dated and the rewards irrelevant, but the current ilvl discrepancy, Echo bonuses, and DF additions are insufficient to facilitate clearing the content

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Yeah, those seem to be the common reasons, I'd just like to answer to those specific points:

A) No one is entitled to shit. You are entitled to a chance at all the content, but not the reward from it. There is no block outside the game itself for players other than themselves. This is the case with ANY GAME IN EXISTENCE. You can't get to level 20 until you beat level 1, you can't get the end cutscene until you beat the final boss, you can't get the higher score without getting the lower one. All games give you a chance at content, but it's up to the player to beat the game to get to all of it.

B) Time scheduling, otherwise an MMO is just not going to work with your IRL lifestyle (at least raiding). They are time consumers by design. It would be like buying Counter-Strike and complaining that you need quick reflexes to not die a lot. Just because you can't find time, doesn't mean everyone else is in the same boat. Many people have "a life", jobs, family, school, and can find time for coil. If you have TWO JOBS well sorry, but that's something you'll have to figure out.

C) Story and unlocking the next coil is just as much a reward as gear itself.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

snip

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Good analogy.