Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

Was what made you notice really the difference between respect and lack thereof, or poor writing? I mean had the Indian snake ladies been talking about curry every five minutes, I'm sure you would have caught on faster to what they did there.

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On one hand, not being written like a caricature does help, absolutely. But I might still not have noticed, the snake ladies aren't Indian people, they're Indian-themed. The writers are not writing them as some "Hey look, this is what people are like in India!" thing. But if a patch came out and said they were altering the dialogue to no longer exaggerate "s" sounds as a way to be more respectful, then I'd have to assume that what hasn't been changed is direct commentary of how Indian people are, and that even the thing that was changed, probably was as well.

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

So the snake ladies in Indian clothes with Indian accents and an Indian god never came off as maybe being related to any real life people? Interesting.

The FF14 writers did this to themselves. They were the ones who decided to fashion their fantasy races after real life people.

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That's why the "message" is important.

Say if a company want to create a "oriental" faction with no specific replication, they probably can put together a smash up - generic visual style with pagoda structure, Cheosam, Chinese accent characters, and no one gonna be mad if it also include Korean or Japanese style in it. It's oriental, it's exotic, it's cool, that's all that matter. But if the intention is to replicate a specific country/faction ... than that's a different story. That's why people aren't very please when the spot Korean/Chinese structure in the new Assassin creed when it's supposed to replicate Japan.


Frankly, that's why company should really just shut up and stop trying to score social internet brownie point. Don't try to claim you're paying homemade to this or that. If you create a place that looks like South America, or India than well, it's just what it is, still just a fantasy place. They are critized not because of what they made, but more because of the claim they're trying to make.

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Originally Posted by gumas

iam thinking FF11 but while i keep hearing the story is good and is now soloable, i dont think i can handle the cumbersome of the old style everquest era mmo

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That's a shame if you like story because FFXI story telling is leaps and bounds better than xiv's. It's not as fast paced so you take the story in sips instead of massive gulps, but they are not afraid to go dark with the occasional moment of levity and do not lean on the power of friendship trope as hard as xiv does, making for some more interesting ways for things to be resolved. All the expansions are their own thing too so you don't have to play them in any order and you can do them at your own pace. They even give you the option to not trigger the first cutscene that starts an expansion's story until you want to. Even side stories and job stories can get spooky or make you say, wow wth just happened. Lookin at you blue mage.

If you are a story/lore nerd, FFXI > FFXIV by a long shot.

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Originally Posted by MartinFreeman

lol perfect set of pictures.

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The third picture omg, it gotta be on purpose, it has to, they know what they doing lol

I swear if i see more lf that cat post main story, iam going to riot lol

1/2

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

-Snip-

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Case in point, the devs of Ghost of Tsushima- a game that by all accounts did its damned best to be as historically accurate as possible with liberties taken only for gameplay- were granted honorary ambassador status, because they'd genuinely taken the time to understand and reflect the culture and people of the period honestly, good and bad.

If Tural had human sacrifice, violent intercultural wars that were still ongoing, and we were helping Gulool Ja Ja- a man who'd been overseas and seen the *chance* that it could be done away with- put an end to the conflicts by smacking down the main players with him? Probably would have been accepted as a much more level-headed story.

Instead every culture is tacos, ponchos, and One Obligatory Quirk To Set Us Apart From The Others.

The birds were Vanu Vanu 2. Their wind magic had almost no relevance. We didn't meet them on a mountain, we met them in a swamp. We didn't meet them talking about helping their fledglings learn to glide between islands, or why they had a boat float as part of their festival. They just did. Why? It's their Hat.

The Pelu Pelu? Nothing but traders. We see almost nothing else in the MSQ. We don't learn why that developed, only that it is. We don't have any 'The Pelu Pelu were often nomadic, relying on trade and their alpacas to make a living and have food/resources' with some thinking they were basically "Romani: South American Edition", and that gives rise to both their insular culture with the literal hats and the trading/alpacas.

Even the dragons dealt with memory and rememberance better than the Yok Huy. Their petroglyphs could have been even more of a cultural thing- Yok Huy carve their own petroglyphs through life, adding slabs and carving their deeds, memories, thoughts, and experiences onto them until their death, at which time the petroglyph is set up as their gravestone so that others can come and meditate on the experiences of those past. Not only would it have added a bit of depth to them, but it would have contrasted with Living Memory. You could have had discussions about petroglyphs being destroyed, aging. The trial could have been to help figure out the circumstances of a Yok Huy's death, to make sure the final entry on their petroglyph is accurate. Instead it's just... fancy gravestones.

The list goes on. There's easy ways to add depth to cultures, but they were running so far away from having any sort of 'teeth' to their cultures. It was like being gummed at the ankles by a puppy. You go 'aw, cute' and wander off.

2/2

The Mamool come closest to being 'sacrificial' but even then, it's played for sympathy, like they... *had* to resort to genocide instead of like... did nobody bring back knowledge of the outside world in those 80 years? At all? We know Gulool Ja Ja brought a Limsan sailor and a... what's that country's name... SHARLAYAN through twenty years ago! He had to take them through the Cenote! And neither of them reflected that 'gee, maybe the giant glowing rocks are muckin' about with the aether, want us to find some plants that'll help?' I mean we know Gulool and Galuf parted on good terms, so like... was that even tried? We don't get enough resistance to 'outsiders' to justify it, hell, finding a crate of supplies- seeds that Gulool had sent, *again*, like he has every year for the past twenty that they've refused to use out of dumb, stubborn pride- would have added depth to their reaction. It would have even set up for Alexandria with Wuk having to admit that eventually, there's a point where 'It's their culture' goes too far and you need to put your foot down. The twist being *that* was the challenge would have been icing on the cake. Eventually, you need to tell people 'No', and they'll be mad, and they'll hate you for it, and they'll resent you and slander you and call you names... but you're a leader. You have to do what your people need, not what they want. And if they could have stopped the pit full of dead babies by just accepting a little bit of kindness... they should have.

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Originally Posted by gumas

The third picture omg, it gotta be on purpose, it has to, they know what they doing lol

I swear if i see more lf that cat post main story, iam going to riot lol

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Just have to do the scene on Dark Knight, then your character's battle pose is dropped low enough you manage to duck under the axe.
https://i.imgur.com/nfrCZwC.png

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

That's a shame if you like story because FFXI story telling is leaps and bounds better than xiv's. It's not as fast paced so you take the story in sips instead of massive gulps, but they are not afraid to go dark with the occasional moment of levity and do not lean on the power of friendship trope as hard as xiv does, making for some more interesting ways for things to be resolved. All the expansions are their own thing too so you don't have to play them in any order and you can do them at your own pace. They even give you the option to not trigger the first cutscene that starts an expansion's story until you want to. Even side stories and job stories can get spooky or make you say, wow wth just happened. Lookin at you blue mage.

If you are a story/lore nerd, FFXI > FFXIV by a long shot.

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one day.... one day i will play it

on a side note, my friend jokingly said if your cat is dark brown color, overly attached to you, need your undivided attention every minute, asking your approval everytime she doing something

you better name your cat wuk lamat lol

Everything I said about Zenos...i'm sorry (|Please forgive me|) I rather have his zombie corpse continue to chase me down begging for another 1v1 irl in game then to put up with this Black hole Mary Sue Princess any longer. If she's in 7.1 onwards I'm quitting.

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Originally Posted by DiscoDuck

Everything I said about Zenos...i'm sorry (|Please forgive me|) I rather have his zombie corpse continue to chase me down begging for another 1v1 irl in game then to put up with this Black hole Mary Sue Princess any longer. If she's in 7.1 onwards I'm quitting.

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Let the guy rest. He did his part and achieve his wet dream of a no-holds-barred-1v1.
Though i suspect they might reanimate his corpse again for round two or maybe get a uninspired 1-to-1 copy

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Originally Posted by Vensaval

You ever take a step back and think you're taking a video game just a tad too seriously?

In case you haven't, let me tell you...

You're taking this video game way too seriously.

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What do you mean? You're the one mad they changed it from Beast Tribes to Allied Societies and demand one of the next societies be humanoid. All I did was explain the ingame reason the name has changed. I have zero emotional investment in what it's called. Between the two of us, you're actually the one that cares. I was just letting you know that your demands got met three expansions ago.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

That's why the "message" is important.

Say if a company want to create a "oriental" faction with no specific replication, they probably can put together a smash up - generic visual style with pagoda structure, Cheosam, Chinese accent characters, and no one gonna be mad if it also include Korean or Japanese style in it. It's oriental, it's exotic, it's cool, that's all that matter. But if the intention is to replicate a specific country/faction ... than that's a different story. That's why people aren't very please when the spot Korean/Chinese structure in the new Assassin creed when it's supposed to replicate Japan.


Frankly, that's why company should really just shut up and stop trying to score social internet brownie point. Don't try to claim you're paying homemade to this or that. If you create a place that looks like South America, or India than well, it's just what it is, still just a fantasy place. They are critized not because of what they made, but more because of the claim they're trying to make.

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I feel like there are so many fantasy stories that aren't lifting entire cultures and dropping them unaltered into their games. To me, it feels a bit lazy. And if it was written the way it was written because they were "afraid" to say anything bad, then they should stop trying to copy places and just make things up. But assuming this was fear and not just phoning it in is more credit than I'm willing to give.

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Originally Posted by DiscoDuck

Everything I said about Zenos...i'm sorry (|Please forgive me|) I rather have his zombie corpse continue to chase me down begging for another 1v1 irl in game then to put up with this Black hole Mary Sue Princess any longer. If she's in 7.1 onwards I'm quitting.

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at least you still aim for zenos, at this point i take lyse lol

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Originally Posted by gumas

one day.... one day i will play it

on a side note, my friend jokingly said if your cat is dark brown color, overly attached to you, need your undivided attention every minute, asking your approval everytime she doing something

you better name your cat wuk lamat lol

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I dunno if it's just me but I personally saw her as an orange cat, and orange cat definitely fits Wuk Lamat's personality.

https://i.chzbgr.com/thumb800/220433...able-relatable

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

What do you mean? You're the one mad they changed it from Beast Tribes to Allied Societies and demand one of the next societies be humanoid. All I did was explain the ingame reason the name has changed. I have zero emotional investment in what it's called. Between the two of us, you're actually the one that cares. I was just letting you know that your demands got met three expansions ago.

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Why do people always have to assume the person they're replying to has to be mad? I was pointing out that your responses seem frantic and rant-like. Also, I didn't make any "demands".

I acknowledge your point that Dwarves were already a thing in Shadowbringers (somehow slipped my mind). However, if anything that kinda proves that the change from Beast Tribes to Allied Societies was unnecessary because we had two expansions beforehand of a Lalafel-equivalent already being one of them. So... Why change it two expansions later?

I do care. You're correct in that regard. I didn't care before, but after realizing a 'cultural consultation firm' was involved and then witnessing first-hand the decline of quality that was Dawntrail's story and characters I fear that we may be heading towards a downward spiral.

Of course I care. FFXIV is my favorite game. I've been playing it since ARR's beta. Each time I've taken a break from the game, I've returned to a better and better experience each and every time. This is the one time it's been worse, and it's remarkably worse.

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Originally Posted by BigBoom550

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On the Mamool Ja:
It’s even more funny because there are some who actually WERE in Eorzea and came back.

So many commenters here and on other sides posted better stories in their free time than what we got without even trying.
It’s the modders fixing hats in a day all over just for the story.

They really didn’t care for the story this time.
Just barfed it down with enough references to previous expansions in the hopes the players would just eat and like it.
Just give Wuk enough quirky personality traits for the G’raha fans, add a female Emet and turn a lizard into budget Zenos, mix it with a “everyone comes together to build something” scene and for the final touch add a Azem reference.
There, the receipt for fake tears on YouTube.

When the fanfictions are better than your story then you know you have hit rock bottom.
Let’s hope they get the bus back out.

just small update about wow (currently playing)

wow the level system is.... different, i barely do 1/4 of the content and for some reason iam already at level 47 (70 is max i think), like you know how humongous wow map is right? all that world map and whole other dimension/planet thingy, iam still at first big island on the right and not even cover half of it and somehow iam almost at max level?

so what iam gonna with the rest of the quest once my level max out? iam not even at first expansion yet, i get it if your character can get multiple class like ff14 but in wow new class mean playing from the start again, this is really eye opener for me

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Originally Posted by gumas

just small update about wow (currently playing)

wow the level system is.... different, i barely do 1/4 of the content and for some reason iam already at level 47 (70 is max i think), like you know how humongous wow map is right? all that world map and whole other dimension/planet thingy, iam still at first big island on the right and not even cover half of it and somehow iam almost at max level?

so what iam gonna with the rest of the quest once my level max out? iam not even at first expansion yet, i get it if your character can get multiple class like ff14 but in wow new class mean playing from the start again, this is really eye opener for me

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You just continue playing at max level. If you want to be doing all quests on that character. Otherwise people often split alts into different expansions/zones so there's more variety. The idea is simple - it's a very alt friendly game, you're supposed to be able to get alts up to max and endgame in a few days at most. And that's exactly what you can do. In ffxiv it takes forever to level other classes and then you get locked out of gear at the end because of our nonsensical weekly lockouts.

But like I said, what's the issue with just doing the rest of the quests once your level is max? You still get all the other rewards like transmogs, titles, and obviously you still get the story and such. Exp isn't the one and only purpose of playing a game. And if you don't feel like it for whatever reason, just go and jump into the endgame content, then take an alt through those unfinished zones instead. You don't have to play anything "from the start." It's a bit complicated I suppose, the game is very big and some systems can seem complex for newcomers. There's some good places where you can ask questions though - you could try wownoob subreddit, it's ultra friendly, you can ask ANYTHING there, people will gladly explain every tiny thing.

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Originally Posted by BakoolJaJa

You just continue playing at max level. If you want to be doing all quests on that character. Otherwise people often split alts into different expansions/zones so there's more variety. The idea is simple - it's a very alt friendly game, you're supposed to be able to get alts up to max and endgame in a few days at most. And that's exactly what you can do. In ffxiv it takes forever to level other classes and then you get locked out of gear at the end because of our nonsensical weekly lockouts.

But like I said, what's the issue with just doing the rest of the quests once your level is max? You still get all the other rewards like transmogs, titles, and obviously you still get the story and such. Exp isn't the one and only purpose of playing a game. And if you don't feel like it for whatever reason, just go and jump into the endgame content, then take an alt through those unfinished zones instead. You don't have to play anything "from the start." It's a bit complicated I suppose, the game is very big and some systems can seem complex for newcomers. There's some good places where you can ask questions though - you could try wownoob subreddit, it's ultra friendly, you can ask ANYTHING there, people will gladly explain every tiny thing.

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so basically wow provide all these zone/region to level? compare to ff14 where they use all region/zone to make one seamless story and you level up along the way?

so in wow you can just max your char in region A, then play alt but this time max it at region B something like that? talk about different structure

i will continue playing off course even after max level, but half of the fun questing to see your level progress bar going up lol, now i feel wasted buying game time for 2 months, i though the levelling will take some time (2-3 weeks), i did not expect halfway from max level in just 3 days, well at least the exploring will take some time i guess

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Originally Posted by Vensaval

Why do people always have to assume the person they're replying to has to be mad? I was pointing out that your responses seem frantic and rant-like. Also, I didn't make any "demands".

I acknowledge your point that Dwarves were already a thing in Shadowbringers (somehow slipped my mind). However, if anything that kinda proves that the change from Beast Tribes to Allied Societies was unnecessary because we had two expansions beforehand of a Lalafel-equivalent already being one of them. So... Why change it two expansions later?

I do care. You're correct in that regard. I didn't care before, but after realizing a 'cultural consultation firm' was involved and then witnessing first-hand the decline of quality that was Dawntrail's story and characters I fear that we may be heading towards a downward spiral.

Of course I care. FFXIV is my favorite game. I've been playing it since ARR's beta. Each time I've taken a break from the game, I've returned to a better and better experience each and every time. This is the one time it's been worse, and it's remarkably worse.

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I did not mean to sound "frantic" or "ranting" so my apologies for that. I was just explaining the in-game reason for the change. But since I don't see the change to Allied Societies being related to the drop in writing quality, I have zero emotional investment on what they call it which was why I found it to odd to be told I'm ranting about something I'm indifferent to. I'm still confused as to why people believe changing tribes to allied societies is the reason why the worldbuilding was as shallow as a pond this time around.

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Originally Posted by CuteBucket

One single (two-headed) guy solved all of their major problems 80 years ago, convinced two tribes to stop enslaving other people by just asking nicely, and then everything has been happy and idyllic for everyone except this one single town of Mamool Ja ever since, and we fixed all their problems in the story anyway so now they're fine and happy too. Contrast this with the history of any other nation in the game world.

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Yes, it's really like a Fisher Price version of "My First Conquest - How To Do It Peacefully".

Up until pretty much the end of the game, I was waiting for the other shoe to drop, to reveal some big secret behind Gulool Ja Ja success. But it literally was just tacos and asking others to be nice...

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Originally Posted by Regis_Paran

Yes, it's really like a Fisher Price version of "My First Conquest - How To Do It Peacefully".

Up until pretty much the end of the game, I was waiting for the other shoe to drop, to reveal some big secret behind Gulool Ja Ja success. But it literally was just tacos and asking others to be nice...

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Here's an accurate summary of this part of the msq :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFjqEexH0Tg

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Originally Posted by Syln

Here's an accurate summary of this part of the msq :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFjqEexH0Tg

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Thank you. That made me laugh and I needed this :D

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Originally Posted by Syln

Here's an accurate summary of this part of the msq :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFjqEexH0Tg

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Epic!! You just won the internet for today. I can't stop laughing....:D:D:D

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

I'm still confused as to why people believe changing tribes to allied societies is the reason why the worldbuilding was as shallow as a pond this time around.

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It isn't the reason, but there's a high likelihood it's a symptom. Again possibly related to cultural consultants and DEI. Timing makes sense since DT would've been in development while DEI, SBI, and so on were at their most—let's say—popular. It's already been confirmed SBI was working with Square, though I don't think we know for sure which projects specifically.

However, it lines up with the decline in quality of Alan Wake, Spider-Man, and God of War for example. Each heavily criticized by players, and for good reason. I suspect DT is on that list as well. Especially since in each of these cases, the gameplay itself remains solid.

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Originally Posted by gumas

so basically wow provide all these zone/region to level? compare to ff14 where they use all region/zone to make one seamless story and you level up along the way?

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Exactly. You can take your alts through any of the expansions (through chromie time), but also inside of those expansions you can technically skip entire zones and just do some of them instead. The original areas especially, as well as those from early expansions never had a "connecting" storyline that took you through the zones one by one, so there you just pick whatever. With the newer expansions, you technically have a main story that will usually take you through the different locations, BUT it's a very small part relatively speaking, so there's still nothing stopping you from skipping 99% of whatever zone you no longer want to do.

The story was never particularly seamless, in a way the game is more "lore" focused than "story" focused, or at least used to be. Though nowadays you can totally follow the entire story of Dragonflight and end of August you'll be able to follow the entirety of War Within. Those experiences are very close to ffxiv.

Also curious what expansion you were leveling through? Nowadays I think you can start with Dragonflight from essentially the beginning, and that would have been my recommendation. Out of the old ones, the best is either Legion or BfA, with my personal favorite being Legion. Btw, Legion also has this thing called "class halls." They come with a unique hall (sort of base of operations) and storyline for each of the classes, plus cool weapon transmogs. VERY, very fun and totally worth doing. Warlock class for example has a weapon that TALKS to you when you kill enemies. The class flavor is top notch and really helps roleplay. Plus the rest of the expansion is also great. I am only sharing all this because I myself started WoW not that long ago and I was about 99% confident that I'd hate and quit it, I hated the starting zone (Exile's Reach which I'm sure you also did and also hated), I didn't like the default expansion I got started in (BfA at that moment, though it later grew on me) and I only stuck with the game in the end because of Legion. I trusted some people on Reddit who told me to try it before quitting for good, and then I was hooked.

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Originally Posted by gumas

so basically wow provide all these zone/region to level? compare to ff14 where they use all region/zone to make one seamless story and you level up along the way?

so in wow you can just max your char in region A, then play alt but this time max it at region B something like that? talk about different structure

i will continue playing off course even after max level, but half of the fun questing to see your level progress bar going up lol, now i feel wasted buying game time for 2 months, i though the levelling will take some time (2-3 weeks), i did not expect halfway from max level in just 3 days, well at least the exploring will take some time i guess

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Worth pointing out that a relatively recent change was to make it so that each expansion on it's own could bring you from level 1 to current content. It used to be that you would start "at the beginning of the game" and then work your way up through expansions. But that took a while and was somewhat boring (for many, I assume) because of how more battle-focused than FF14 WoW is and most of these areas were devoid of other players. It's still possible to play start to finish but it either involves creating multiple characters to at least do every expansion once or you would have to visit the NPC that locks your level so you can keep clearing content before it stops scaling to you.

So yeah, it used to be that slowly taking your time levelling through quests would take you a month or two (or three). One ... option, if you're open to it maybe? Would be to level a character through Cataclysm Classic instead. Admittedly I don't know how solo-friendly that is, but it will be closer to your goal of slowly watching your level go up.

Woke up to a lovely tweet from Wuk Lamat's VA insinuating that disliking Smile could be because you're a racist.

People already don't like the character and have issues with the performance, yet people like me were willing to defend the person for doing her job as best as she was able and believing that any directional or casting issues should be laid at the feet of the company, but now she's doubling down on these implications that Dawntrail is only receiving mixed reception because fans are intolerant and don't like Black Gospel, South American culture, or Trans VAs.

I'm sure there's a certain subsection of the fandom that do believe this, and I believe her when she says she's been getting harassed due to the presence of grifters like Grummz getting involved. She should be allowed to vent her frustrations and discuss said harassment, but she's becoming a brand risk by attacking the average fan now - even if she believes that putting plausible deniability in her wording is clever.

I'm beginning to feel like the character has simply got to go. She's doing more damage in a couple months than every other VA has in the last decade combined. Lack of professionalism.

Wuk Lamat is reincarnated former convocation of seat of Deudalaphon.

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Originally Posted by Remiferia

Woke up to a lovely tweet from Wuk Lamat's VA insinuating that disliking Smile could be because you're a racist.

People already don't like the character and have issues with the performance, yet people like me were willing to defend the person for doing her job as best as she was able and believing that any directional or casting issues should be laid at the feet of the company, but now she's doubling down on these implications that Dawntrail is only receiving mixed reception because fans are intolerant and don't like Black Gospel, South American culture, or Trans VAs.

I'm sure there's a certain subsection of the fandom that do believe this, and I believe her when she says she's been getting harassed due to the presence of grifters like Grummz getting involved. She should be allowed to vent her frustrations and discuss said harassment, but she's becoming a brand risk by attacking the average fan now - even if she believes that putting plausible deniability in her wording is clever.

I'm beginning to feel like the character has simply got to go. She's doing more damage in a couple months than every other VA has in the last decade combined. Lack of professionalism.

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"Smile is black gospel music so if you dislike it you're racist" is such a ridiculous statement that I have to think she's rage baiting.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

"Smile is black gospel music so if you dislike it you're racist" is such a ridiculous statement that I have to think she's rage baiting.

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The worst part is that people aren't connecting Smile to black gospel, they are connecting it to the Disney Hercules song which is inspired by gospel. It'd be like accusing people of hating Mexicans for not liking Taco Bell. The accusation itself is patronizing, just like the people equating Erenville to black representation after he said he doesn't know his dad. Please stop helping. You're not.

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

The worst part is that people aren't connecting Smile to black gospel, they are connecting it to the Disney Hercules song which is inspired by gospel. It'd be like accusing people of hating Mexicans for not liking Taco Bell. The accusation itself is patronizing, just like the people equating Erenville to black representation after he said he doesn't know his dad. Please stop helping. You're not.

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...that Erenville one has to be a 4ch troll. I refuse to believe otherwise, because that says some really, really bad things.

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Originally Posted by BigBoom550

...that Erenville one has to be a 4ch troll. I refuse to believe otherwise, because that says some really, really bad things.

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Nah, well meaning people really did argue the writers did a racism when a bunny of color mentioned not knowing his father and I had to explain that while Erenville is black, he's not black. And when FF14 wants a group in game associated with a real life group, they let you know and Viera are not modeled after African Americans. And fathers smashing and dashing has been established as part of Viera culture regardless what color the bunny is. And that suddenly connecting Erenville with blackness because he doesn't know his father was way worse than anything the writers did.

Sometimes people are so eager to fight racism, they do a bit of a 360... I feel Sena is doing something similar with her comments about Smile (I just found out who made that statement.)

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Originally Posted by Remiferia

Woke up to a lovely tweet from Wuk Lamat's VA insinuating that disliking Smile could be because you're a racist.

People already don't like the character and have issues with the performance, yet people like me were willing to defend the person for doing her job as best as she was able and believing that any directional or casting issues should be laid at the feet of the company, but now she's doubling down on these implications that Dawntrail is only receiving mixed reception because fans are intolerant and don't like Black Gospel, South American culture, or Trans VAs.

I'm sure there's a certain subsection of the fandom that do believe this, and I believe her when she says she's been getting harassed due to the presence of grifters like Grummz getting involved. She should be allowed to vent her frustrations and discuss said harassment, but she's becoming a brand risk by attacking the average fan now - even if she believes that putting plausible deniability in her wording is clever.

I'm beginning to feel like the character has simply got to go. She's doing more damage in a couple months than every other VA has in the last decade combined. Lack of professionalism.

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Wow, I am not surprised. Glad you are finally getting rid of the veil and seeing what everyone else was seeing the whole time. My other comments got deleted but I stand by my opinions on him. I hope they take a closer look at future hires. Check the social media and everything,like a full deepdive so this never happens again. I thought they did do that though but I guess when it comes to DEI hires it doesn’t matter how rotten the apple is.

People just didn’t like a Disney type song. Has nothing to do with any color of people. I hated it. Was so weird and felt out of place like I just watched a family movie ending. But then again we can argue the msq was a disney movie plot with bad voiceacting and one of those side character that always needs attention from the main character.

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Originally Posted by Nyxs

Wow, I am not surprised. Glad you are finally getting rid of the veil and seeing what everyone else was seeing the whole time. My other comments got deleted but I stand by my opinions on him. I hope they take a closer look at future hires. Check the social media and everything,like a full deepdive so this never happens again. I thought they did do that though but I guess when it comes to DEI hires it doesn’t matter how rotten the apple is.

People just didn’t like a Disney type song. Has nothing to do with any color of people. I hated it. Was so weird and felt out of place like I just watched a family movie ending. But then again we can argue the msq was a disney movie plot with bad voiceacting and one of those side character that always needs attention from the main character.

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Sorry, but just to be absolutely clear: I won't participate in any misgendering and I think treating Sweet Baby/DEI like some kind of video game illuminati is equally unhinged. To do so is to ignore all of the critically acclaimed games that have released with the assistance of consulting firms and there are plenty of stinkers that release without them.

I do find some of Sena's comments and opinions on the fanbase/industry concerning. I also think that her continuing to do so would and SHOULD make her position as the voice actor for a protagonist role in Square Enix's crowning jewel untenable, but I leverage that against her as an individual and not as some personification of 'everything wrong with video gamez today'. She's not. She's done better in other roles. She's likely also lashing out because of the abuse she's been receiving and I understand that, but it's no less unprofessional and inappropriate.

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Originally Posted by Remiferia

Sorry, but just to be absolutely clear: I won't participate in any misgendering and I think treating Sweet Baby/DEI like some kind of video game illuminati is equally unhinged. To do so is to ignore all of the critically acclaimed games that have released with the assistance of consulting firms and there are plenty of stinkers that release without them.

I do find some of Sena's comments and opinions on the fanbase/industry concerning. I also think that her continuing to do so would and SHOULD make her position as the voice actor for a protagonist role in Square Enix's crowning jewel untenable, but I leverage that against her as an individual and not as some personification of 'everything wrong with video gamez today'. She's not. She's done better in other roles. She's likely also lashing out because of the abuse she's been receiving and I understand that, but it's no less unprofessional and inappropriate.

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Except what I said is true. Just because you dont think so doesn’t mean otherwise.

If they had cared more about the game and the fanbase they would of hired someone who deserved the role and would of did it justice.Hiring someone to tick a checkbox is never a good idea so I hope they learn from this. Many companies doing the same are struggling with negative reviews as Dawntrail is currently. Companies need to pull back from this nonsense while going back to caring about the product they are making.

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Originally Posted by Nyxs

Except what I said is true. Just because you dont think so doesn’t mean otherwise.

If they had cared more about the game and the fanbase they would of hired someone who deserved the role and would of did it justice.Hiring someone to tick a checkbox is never a good idea so I hope they learn from this. Many companies doing the same are struggling with negative reviews as Dawntrail is currently. Companies need to pull back from this nonsense while going back to caring about the product they are making.

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Given Sena was one voice actor out of several who played Wuk Lamat and people are taking issue with DT regardless of what language they played it in, it seems to me the writing was the main problem, not one voice actor. Are you also claiming the writers were DEI hires?

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Originally Posted by Remiferia

Woke up to a lovely tweet from Wuk Lamat's VA insinuating that disliking Smile could be because you're a racist.

People already don't like the character and have issues with the performance, yet people like me were willing to defend the person for doing her job as best as she was able and believing that any directional or casting issues should be laid at the feet of the company, but now she's doubling down on these implications that Dawntrail is only receiving mixed reception because fans are intolerant and don't like Black Gospel, South American culture, or Trans VAs.

I'm sure there's a certain subsection of the fandom that do believe this, and I believe her when she says she's been getting harassed due to the presence of grifters like Grummz getting involved. She should be allowed to vent her frustrations and discuss said harassment, but she's becoming a brand risk by attacking the average fan now - even if she believes that putting plausible deniability in her wording is clever.

I'm beginning to feel like the character has simply got to go. She's doing more damage in a couple months than every other VA has in the last decade combined. Lack of professionalism.

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Is Smile supposed to be Black Gospel inspired? I thought it was supposed to be like American musical big choral piece.

Anyways. I think Smile's issue is that it's played during the Evangelion "Congradulations" cutscene for Wuk Lamat and the literal plotting of committing a terror attack by train bomb that make it more cringey than hated.

Its super out of place.

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Originally Posted by Nyxs

Except what I said is true. Just because you dont think so doesn’t mean otherwise.

If they had cared more about the game and the fanbase they would of hired someone who deserved the role and would of did it justice.Hiring someone to tick a checkbox is never a good idea so I hope they learn from this. Many companies doing the same are struggling with negative reviews as Dawntrail is currently. Companies need to pull back from this nonsense while going back to caring about the product they are making.

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It's not true, though, because Dawntrail fucking sucks on its own merits (or lack thereof) completely separate of one VA in one language.

You can't say with certainty that she was hired to 'tick a checkbox' on the basis she's trans when Wuk Lamat's JP VA is also a relatively fresh face so they could have just wanted to hire an 'up and comer'. They could have just as easily wanted her on the basis she has Puerto Rican blood and they felt she fit the bill for their South American story. You say there are 'many companies' doing the same and are struggling but there are also many companies who are not. Baldur's Gate 3 has won so many awards that it affected their development. On the flip side, SSKTJL was just a bad game with a shitty battle pass but people for some reason blame the consulting firm. The argument is disingenuous.

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Originally Posted by Remiferia

You can't say with certainty that she was hired to 'tick a checkbox' on the basis she's trans when Wuk Lamat's JP VA is also a relatively fresh face so they could have just wanted to hire an 'up and comer'.

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While we cannot be 100% sure this was made for "checkbox", it is the most obvious thought, unfortunately.

Otherwise, why they hired this clearly B grade actor to voice a character that is present in... pretty much ALL voiced Dawntrail cutscenes and is the center point of the expansion?!
I didn't thought CBU3 cared so little about their playerbase. Neither Emet or Zenos were voiced anywhere close. Hell, the entirety of Fandaniel/Hermes crazed performance is delivered through VA, which did an amazing job!

It was just the previous expansion, mind you. And now we have "SPeEeEeEn, Lissun to me!" and the rest of the slop Wuk said during this trial. There were no effort to deliver emotions, no weight in words at all. And it wasn't just a single oversight, the overall performance from 6.55 to 7.0 in its entirety barely reaches the "acceptable" level. Just listen to other languages, the difference is flipping massive!

It doesn't have to be VA being a trans, it is just raw inexperience. Which points back to the initial question.

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Originally Posted by Remember_The_Name

Snip.

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I do agree that this part was clearly well above what she could do but that's not really on her. She has an agency that gets her these parts and she can say that she's lent her voice to critically acclaimed games like Unicorn Overlord and anime. If SE have been going to these companies in the US for South American talent then the agency is going to lean into her Puerto Rican heritage. This is just the nature of getting clients jobs and it's the nature of every person who has ever had to sell themselves in a job application.

6.1-7.0 have been an overall downgrade in voice direction and of course that's going to hurt the character with the most lines the most. A lot of people focus on the 'Speen! Lissun to me!' (which IS bad delivery) but far less people mention how poor Sphene's line delivery is in her own boss fight, or how dry Krile and Y'shtola sound, or how the voice direction has clearly told Erenville to roll his R's so hard he's at risk of taking flight etc. Voice directors and likely NDAs have fucked non-JP delivery up as well and we shouldn't be letting them off the hook.

Just recently, Faye Mata (Jade from Honkai Star Rail in this context, but also Aqua from KonoSuba, Metera from GBF and Petra from FE3H) said in a stream that she watched Jade's story trailer for the first time with the general public, and she said that she would have read her lines completely differently if she was actually told that Jade was talking to someone else as she had interpret the context herself and guessed it was a monologue. The situation VAs are put in suck ass for a trailer so imagine how fucking bad it is for a whole MMO.

This isn't to excuse poor performances or clear struggling with the role, but I think it's quite reductive to chalk everything up to Square Enix arbitrarily 'ticking a checkbox' when the issues with the game go far, far beyond Sena and it's patently unfair to lay all our hangups at her feet. Wuk Lamat and the DT story is divisive in all languages.