Please Allow 50's to Enter Ishgard w/o having completed MSQ

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Do not take this the wrong way, however: What work?

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The work to get into hw. I get what your saying and what not. But it's how it is. For example you had to buy expansions for wow to do the content that was added. Best I can say is don't buy the exspantion till you get to that point? New jobs and area would have to wait. The main story takes like a week to do or faster. Also hear exp and what not will be better when hw comes out. Getting through the storyline will be much fast then as well. This isn't a free to play game ether.

My guess is that Square-Enix will likely work to compress extraneous quests (shortening the Corrupted Crystal/Company of Heroes lines), adjust the flow of the MSQ to fit more smoothly into 1-50 (so that you, for example, are fighting Garuda or doing Castrum closer to level 30), and create solo instances or simple 4-man duties for the hard-mode primals. There's honestly a lot of cruft you could cut from the MSQ (mostly Moogle Mog and parts of Ramuh, some of the random Waking Sands/Rising Stones quests) without impacting the overall arc of the storyline.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Doesn't really help the those coming into the game at 3.0. They will still have to go around and out of their way to complete not only an extra 20 levels of a job they might not be interested in - but also completing the MSQ as those jobs that they have no interest in.


Honestly, I only see benefits in allowing players to unlock jobs at level 30 instead of level 50 if the job itself is going to be level 30. For example. That's 20 levels of completing the dungouns leading up to level 50. 20 levels of playing as their job instead of as another job, and not just fate grinding - likely completing main scenario story to get there, whcih means they'll be using their skills in a meaningful way.

Instead, what you'll likely see is people clearing the MSQ as JobTheyHate#1, and then going back and unlocking the other job. Then they'll FateGrind those jobs to 50, without a clue what to do, and start entering the Ishgard/Heavensward content as the job they wanted to be all along. And when they have no idea what to do in level 50 dungouns because they grinded fates instead of learning their skills like a majority of Ninjas, I want people to remember that this was their preffered reason "FOR THEIR LORE."

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If that's going to happen with fresh 50s, its going to happen anyway with people who are already 50 and are changing to a new job. Frankly in the number of people who will be causing this problem, new players will barely be a drop in the bucket.

If we really wanted to do away with this issue then they shouldn't be adding any new Jobs at all.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Well, FFXI did a pretty good job at throwing the lore out of the window to allow this.
Not sure if it's a good example to follow :p

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Shame there was a lot of zones you couldn't access until you had progressed far enough in the expansions story. Sea, Sky, Walk of echoes to start with.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

SWTOR or WoW does not gate a new area behind content completion. It was tied to being max level.

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Last I checked we were talking about FFXIV. What other MMOs did has no relevance.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

Can't. You know why? Like the majority of new players this is my first experience with the FF series. Which seems to be something the vast majority of naysayers in this thread seem to forget.

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This is the problem, too many players can't approach a new game without basing their expectations on what they played before. Approach each game as something different and new instead of looking as a continuation or even the same as previous games that you played. When you start to see it as its own game, with its own rules. Well, you might start to enjoy it for what it is, rather than what it isn't.

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Originally Posted by Galdous

You will complain about nothing to do after you complain about it takes to long to do stuff.

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People complain about anything, if there is nothing to complain about, they'l complain there's nothing to complain about or make something up XD

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Because indeed, for everyone, it takes quite a bit of time to complete the MSQ, its not by any means fast.

Take it from me, someone that agrees with the content being locked behind the story: your argument of the MSQ being fast to complete is just plain incorrect.

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Yet it took me 2 weeks to level up my SCH alt to 50 and complete all MSQ upto 2.4, which was prior to 2.5 going live. 2 weeks in an MMO you generally play for a substantial amount of time is nothing. Its half the free month.

Take it from me, someone that agrees with the content being locked behind the story: your argument of the MSQ being fast to complete is just plain correct. and will be even faster with 3.0 and changes to levelling 50 and below.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Doesn't really help the those coming into the game at 3.0. They will still have to go around and out of their way to complete not only an extra 20 levels of a job they might not be interested in - but also completing the MSQ as those jobs that they have no interest in.


Honestly, I only see benefits in allowing players to unlock jobs at level 30 instead of level 50 if the job itself is going to be level 30. For example. That's 20 levels of completing the dungouns leading up to level 50. 20 levels of playing as their job instead of as another job, and not just fate grinding - likely completing main scenario story to get there, whcih means they'll be using their skills in a meaningful way.

Instead, what you'll likely see is people clearing the MSQ as JobTheyHate#1, and then going back and unlocking the other job. Then they'll FateGrind those jobs to 50, without a clue what to do, and start entering the Ishgard/Heavensward content as the job they wanted to be all along. And when they have no idea what to do in level 50 dungouns because they grinded fates instead of learning their skills like a majority of Ninjas, I want people to remember that this was their preffered reason "FOR THEIR LORE."

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so being inconvenienced for a couple of days is worth all this complaining? SE is shoving people through with the 2.0 changes coming at 3.0. way more xp, some required content pre 3.0 will no longer be tied to the MSQ, higher lvl gear drops in dungeons, more incentives for older players to do lower lvl content. yet there is still all this complaining and butthurt. you know what? i am not happy about having to "unlock" winds to fly instead of hoping on my flying mount right out of the gate and flying. . .yet i will suck it up and do whatever SE has laid out for me to be able to fly. i will not be ranting on the forums about the unfairness of it all. you people acting like SE said you had to clear MSQ, all coils, all dungeons, all primals and all Hildy quests. . .that's the level of crying going on.

Quote Originally Posted by Tuathaa View Post
SWTOR or WoW does not gate a new area behind content completion. It was tied to being max level.

Which you still had to grind/work at to get to. The thread is a complaint that you have to work to get a reward.

All these WoW players need to go back to their second-rate game and get their handouts and quit whining here, really.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

HOW many times must you hear "MSQ is the fastest way to access Ishgard" before you realize they dramatically streamlined the process to eliminate any repeated grinding to catch up? Today it takes roughly eighteen cumulative hours to go from level 1 newbie to clearing Steps of Faith, WITH grinding. Heavensward gets more than double the XP AND i90+ gear as rewards. I would bet 9 hours is a fair measurement for those who want to rush the story in 3.0. So that would mean what, 4.5 hours if you are rushing from level 30?

If you can't accept 5 hours of work as a tradeoff for not putting in the work like the rest of us.... I think we're done here.

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How many times must you hear that even streamlined, that's a LOT of time to invest into getting to the ONE class you want, and a good number of people might lose their interest by that point?


Let's also not kid ourselves here - Not everyone's going to skip the story and try to zergrush to 50 using the most efficient leveling method. At 2.0, I had the option to transfer my character in, but I instead chose to start a new character (originally on Cactuar) and leveled him to 50, enjoying the story, sidequests, etc...

Also, why does your number randomly decrease? It goes from "18 hours to 50 and Steps of Faith" to "5 hours of work"... Where did the other 13 go? Or are these made-up numbers?

Honestly, I wouldn't mind finding out how long it takes a -new- learning player to get to 50 / steps of faith as a good comparison, but I think we lack the access to that information. Shame.

You may say it "Only takes 18 hours", which, if someone plays an hour a day, is slightly short of 3 weeks just to get to a point where they can unlock a new job that they want to play. Some people might lose interest in the game by that point.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

There's 10 jobs right now. if they hate all of them, they are most certainly going to hate the next three. Tryharder.

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Fun Fact: Not everyone likes to play multiple jobs. I know plenty of people that only play one job because it's the "One they enjoy." Tryhardertolookcool. Then go getgud. :P

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Originally Posted by Cian

so being inconvenienced for a couple of days is worth all this complaining? SE is shoving people through with the 2.0 changes coming at 3.0. way more xp, some required content pre 3.0 will no longer be tied to the MSQ, higher lvl gear drops in dungeons, more incentives for older players to do lower lvl content. yet there is still all this complaining and butthurt. you know what? i am not happy about having to "unlock" winds to fly instead of hoping on my flying mount right out of the gate and flying. . .yet i will suck it up and do whatever SE has laid out for me to be able to fly. i will not be ranting on the forums about the unfairness of it all. you people acting like SE said you had to clear MSQ, all coils, all dungeons, all primals and all Hildy quests. . .that's the level of crying going on.

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Yes, it is worth the complaints. Do you know why?

Because positive discussion that could potentially grab SE's ear and let them hear the complaints and concerns of customers - no different than you or I - is never a bad thing. Laying back and "Accepting things as they are" is a pretty pathetic thing to do, and I'm not the type to just roll over and show my stomach.

More than that, I genuinly enjoy positive discussion. When someone gives a very good, fair point back, I love pinging the ideas back and forth and seeing how a conversation can evolve.

"Winds" for flying mounts are different. They're not gating you off from part of the content, they're built into it, like the steps of the "Coil of Bahamut" to get to the next step. You're not being prevented from going to the zone and exploring because you haven't completed an abritrary quest from the old content of the game, you can go there and work on it right away if you want. And it's level-appropriate.

Now, I would love to ask where this discussion of high-level gear drops coming from dungouns is from? If so I must applaud that, and concede the point that at the very least, the process post-50 will be eased. However, even still, I can not agree with making a character go to 50 to complete MSQ to play the level 30 job they want to play as.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

If that's going to happen with fresh 50s, its going to happen anyway with people who are already 50 and are changing to a new job. Frankly in the number of people who will be causing this problem, new players will barely be a drop in the bucket.

If we really wanted to do away with this issue then they shouldn't be adding any new Jobs at all.

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Well, not going to call anyone a "drop in the bucket" I'm afraid. We'll have to see how things play out to see if there are a lot of players that embody my concerns for the early level-50 to 60 days of Heavensward. Sadly we can wait and see, but it's a very valid concern.

Getting rid of new jobs though would be a disservice to the game :P There are so many jobs that people want to see because to some people, this is sort of like a Final Fantasy Tactics MMO in some ways. Getting to make your characters and build him up to be what you want to be. Can't really think of the main-final fantasies that gave you that level of freedome to kinda "Play how you want" save X-2... Which is still one of the guiltiest pleasures I have to date.

Regardless, I do hope things work out for the best, but I believe you missed my point - which was the logical progression of how people focusing on those new jobs will go. Get a class/job to 50 and be good at it from playing it -> Switch to Dark Knight -> FATE to 50 -> Be bad at Dark Knight post-50, in the shortest and sweetest of words. Mind you, the best of players will always research and work at learning their skills, and those will never change. But I believe that going through MSQ as your preferred job does train you to a degree that it helps slower to warm up players and aids in a learning curve compared to FATE's to 50.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Not enough tanks/heals, that's who.

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Players will be levelling up the new jobs in 3.0.... So there will be DRKs and AST for tanking and healing. So there may even be an increase in tanks and healers for new players going through the MSQ dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Players will be levelling up the new jobs in 3.0.... So there will be DRKs and AST for tanking and healing. So there may even be an increase in tanks and healers for new players going through the MSQ dungeons.

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There is a strong case to be made for us doing roullettes more aggressively as well--since they'll be granting EXP again.

[QUOTE/]Regardless, I do hope things work out for the best, but I believe you missed my point - which was the logical progression of how people focusing on those new jobs will go. Get a class/job to 50 and be good at it from playing it -> Switch to Dark Knight -> FATE to 50 -> Be bad at Dark Knight post-50, in the shortest and sweetest of words. Mind you, the best of players will always research and work at learning their skills, and those will never change. But I believe that going through MSQ as your preferred job does train you to a degree that it helps slower to warm up players and aids in a learning curve compared to FATE's to 50.[/QUOTE]

Why the hell would you FATE to level 60 on DRK? Hello, tank instaqueues?