Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

Not quite to show support for Omega-M as a base, but he IS a good example of what you can do with an existing base. He looks like what Elezen should've looked like if their models were made now, and I'm hoping that if male Elezen are used as a base for male Viera, that they'll get similar treatment, expand on what's there rather than lazily use it and, as Yoshida himself sadly said, slap on a Miqo face and bunny ears

Imo its not lore friendly adding male viera. We know they exist and stuff but they should stay in secret.

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Originally Posted by RoseBnargin

Imo its not lore friendly adding male viera. We know they exist and stuff but they should stay in secret.

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Is that--- is that a Moon Keeper in your avatar? No that's a Seeker, right? Because it would've been ironic if it were a Keeper.
Male Miqo'te either way :D Who's up to starting a drinking game? Down one whenever someone who's running a previously genderlocked option is now against adding male Vieras and female Hroths

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Not quite to show support for Omega-M as a base, but he IS a good example of what you can do with an existing base. He looks like what Elezen should've looked like if their models were made now, and I'm hoping that if male Elezen are used as a base for male Viera, that they'll get similar treatment, expand on what's there rather than lazily use it and, as Yoshida himself sadly said, slap on a Miqo face and bunny ears

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Miqo'te faces are pretty squished, they hardly have a forehead half the time IMO. I don't know, if I wanted a miqo'te face I'd play a male miqo, but it would be lovely if the design principles for the female models mirrored the males, so male and female Viera would fit together side by side - as in the males didn't have weird noses compared to the females or something. After all Viera children look the same until puperty, so I'd imagine they would get handsome faces and two cute options or something.

Also I think when people say tall, muscled race I cant stop but think about Au Ra. Are they not that body type already?
Actually now that Im thinking about it, a slim, smaller race (and with small I talk about the sketch from the jp forum) might make a new body type.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Is that--- is that a Moon Keeper in your avatar? No that's a Seeker, right? Because it would've been ironic if it were a Keeper.
Male Miqo'te either way :D Who's up to starting a drinking game? Down one whenever someone who's running a previously genderlocked option is now against adding male Vieras and female Hroths

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It's Keeper of the Moon. So yes, most lore unfriendly tribe says that it's lore unfriendly to add race with quite same lore. :eyes:

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Is that--- is that a Moon Keeper in your avatar? No that's a Seeker, right? Because it would've been ironic if it were a Keeper.
Male Miqo'te either way :D Who's up to starting a drinking game? Down one whenever someone who's running a previously genderlocked option is now against adding male Vieras and female Hroths

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I think people say that because they come protecting the lore of the Ivalice saga, not cause of FF14. They just dont want the Ivalice lore changed. They are fanboy'ing it way to hard. Female Viera have been always a mysterious, female only race "thats why they have to stay female only".
But I think people forget also this is a FF theme park and it changes lore from previous FF series. Thats why I dont see a reason why it should be lore friendly. After all Ashe and Rasler are siblings, which actually put me more off. FF14 Ivalice =!= Tactics, 12, etc

i bet though if males were actually added
people wouldn't even bat an eye on the lore and there inclusion

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Originally Posted by Duskane

i bet though if males were actually added
people wouldn't even bat an eye on the lore and there inclusion

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Sure. I'm also sure that a lot of those who says about lore now will actually swap in the end.

Hello from 2011: lore, -1 for adding, playing male Keeper of the Moon in the end. On the very 1st page in the thread.
http://static.diary.ru/userdir/1/3/1...7/86246959.png

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Sure. I'm also sure that a lot of those who says about lore now will actually swap in the end.

Hello from 2011: lore, -1 for adding, playing male Keeper of the Moon in the end. On the very 1st page in the thread.
http://static.diary.ru/userdir/1/3/1...7/86246959.png

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This is hilarious. Also I thought the lore meme kinda died too. Guess some people still like bringing it back. (If that one guy who keeps popping up in this thread swapped to mViera, it would just...complete me...)

More Bunny bois! (and kitty gals)

Signing this so hopefully we will get a response from the Dev Team!

+1 another person who finished setting up their forum account just to support this.

Short/small male Viera please.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/9eb76154...5r3jo1_500.jpg
I saw this fan art a while ago. This is a slim body type that some ppl seem to like I guess ^^

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Who's up to starting a drinking game? Down one whenever someone who's running a previously genderlocked option is now against adding male Vieras and female Hroths

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Do you want us to die from alcohol poisoning?

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Originally Posted by Kelryth

Conan with bunny ears?...lol

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https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....7L._SY445_.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dyegp4vVAAAI_kz.png

:)

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

You guys really shouldn't post on the JP thread, leaving a like is fine but let them organically have conversations, spamming or inserting yourself into a conversation without any other context than to post an image isn't a good look and can be confrontational.

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I'm not seeing the issue. I am sure many JP posters come here to leave pictures as well. Certainly, no one was complaining when pics of slim male Viera were left there. I'd like to know what the JP posters think of the pic I posted, and since no one else had put it up, I thought I might as well do so.

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Originally Posted by xxSouxx

Can you guys stop posting images to the Japanese thread?
It's not like we need to be enlightened!

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That's an awfully odd way to look at it. I just consider it to be sharing art.

Here. I gotcha fam. Enjoy. (though need larger ears!!!) - Actually gonna add more to this post to please all your needs.

https://poipiku.com/user_img01/00003...V.jpeg_640.jpg

@artist: https://poipiku.com/33261/292889.html

EDIT

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DymFTE7VsAAfzBO.jpg

@artist: https://twitter.com/garyo_kure/statu...51010235572224

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyqxbmQU8AArMBA.png

artist: https://twitter.com/Kotobuki_Eetu/st...81123435106304

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Originally Posted by Lauront

[IMG]snip

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Just share art here it's why this thread exists, it just looks like you're artificially trying to get a response out of a completely different community culturally, to negative effects.

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Can you guys stop posting images to the Japanese thread?
It's not like we need to be enlightened!

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I'm sure there are people who want buff viera there, the issue is let them discuss and enter the topic themselves, instead you sort of just make yourselves and the images you're posting the topic. Most likely because you believe it'll "sway" whatever imaginary bias you think the devs might gain because of "thin" viera posters. The EN forums exist for a reason, utilize them.

Either way I'm not here to police adults. Do as you please at your own consequence.

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Originally Posted by Ceallach

I'd like to use this post as an example of what I really wanted all along.

At the end of the day, I don't care what your political beliefs are. I have mine, you have yours, and this is a game. I'm not the first person to bring politics into this thread. I probably won't be the last. But at the end of the day, this is a game with a fantasy setting, its own worlds, and its own continuities. It has to make sense within itself. Why do you think series like The Lord of the Rings are so compelling? Worldbuilding. Worldbuilding is key. This quoted post is a great answer as to why male Viera could be playable without disrupting or disrespecting the worldbuilding the devs have already gone through. This is an answer that works, and Xebric should be proud. But to claim not having male Viera or female Hrothgar be playable is somehow homophobic or something? That's disrespectful toward the devs. That completely ignores what it means to build a world, or even to tell a story. That's why I have no respect whatsoever for that point of view.

All I really ever wanted from this thread and the Hrothgar one is thoughts like this one and a civil debate as to why that could or could not work. The problem is too many people are either unable to do so or unwilling to do so, and often for very silly reasons.

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I don't fundamentally disagree with your perspective or beliefs in any real sense, but this thread has been very light on what you describe and has by and large been conducted in a respectful tone towards the devs. I think what you say was certainly truer of some earlier iterations of the topic, though.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

That is a really weak argument and does nothing in your argument against male vieras. We get it, you hate feminism but that does not mean everyone here is fighting for that agenda just bc they want male vieras. Nor does anyone wanting a weak, smaller, or slight male viera equate to yaaaaas queen, lets eviscerate that toxic masculinity with our feminized male vieras.

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TBH, the people who cannot distinguish fiction from reality and believe fiction must conform to certain political or moral ideals annoy me the most, especially when they're against a setting portraying such elements even in a descriptive sense. Nonetheless, I'm certainly not partial to the ideological persuasion you mention, but I want male Viera - why? 1) because I think gender-locks are idiotic for reasons besides ideology and 2) I like the wood elf vibe they've been given.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Either way I'm not here to police adults. Do as you please at your own consequence.

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Thanks.

For the record, I'm not too concerned about the devs gaining any "bias", as they will no doubt undertake a much broader review of community feedback and also run it by the Ivalice team before proceeding. I'm aware that certain people on there, much like here, don't like buff Viera much. However, I don't see an issue with posting imagery of buffer Viera there, and if that stimulates further conversations around it, that's fine. I don't really see why the JP forum should be treated as some bubble, not to be touched, whereas the EN one is seen as a free-for-all.

After all, if people don't like the imagery, they can very organically, just ignore it, or block me.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....7L._SY445_.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dyegp4vVAAAI_kz.png

:)

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Should have posted a pic of some of the conan cover art work!

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/55/67/0d/5...tasy-armor.jpg

I mean the resemblance is uncanny! Right?!

/s

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Originally Posted by Lauront

TBH, the people who cannot distinguish fiction from reality and believe fiction must conform to certain political or moral ideals annoy me the most, especially when they're against a setting portraying such elements even in a descriptive sense. Nonetheless, I'm certainly not partial to the ideological persuasion you mention, but I want male Viera - why? 1) because I think gender-locks are idiotic for reasons besides ideology and 2) I like the wood elf vibe they've been given.

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Tbh I am VERY against the ideological persuasion I brought up and I think it is so ridiculous that when people try to use it as a gotcha I want to roll my eyes so hard they fly out of my skull. I'm very much in the camp of fiction does not equal reality, and I wouldn't be surprised if many of us in this thread also are too. So when people try to use the whole 'feminism ruins everything therefor no male viera' argument people seem to keep bringing up, I get a knee jerk reaction to say something. Also this is a fight over a MALE viera, why even use feminism as an argument?

I also want a wood elf vibe and I merely find the genderlocks stupid. Doesn't need a political reason attached to it lol.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

snip

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It's not that it's a bubble, but it's frowned upon to post on there as the forums themselves are not active and post from EN posters could be seen as again. Attempting to sway opinions and feedback, that's also the reason why there are two different forums for two different languages and two different viewpoints on feedback. In game of course you're bound to play with all types, but for discussion you obviously can't participate, so just chucking art in there is jarring for it's own reasons, you also should not make yourself enough of a nuisance that a generally passive community needs to block you.

I guess we shall have to differ on how much of a nuisance that really poses, but that was the only pic I had in mind to post there, so fret not. ;p

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

Tbh I am VERY against the ideological persuasion I brought up and I think it is so ridiculous that when people try to use it as a gotcha I want to roll my eyes so hard they fly out of my skull. I'm very much in the camp of fiction does not equal reality, and I wouldn't be surprised if many of us in this thread also are too. So when people try to use the whole 'feminism ruins everything therefor no male viera' argument people seem to keep bringing up, I get a knee jerk reaction to say something. Also this is a fight over a MALE viera, why even use feminism as an argument?

I also want a wood elf vibe and I merely find the genderlocks stupid. Doesn't need a political reason attached to it lol.

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It's because identity politics was brought up quite a bit in some of the earlier threads, so now the issues have become conflated, which is why I was cautioning against invoking it at the time, besides the fact that it's a fairly insular set of concerns and likely to be of extremely little relevance to SE.

But I agree, strictly speaking, the two things have nothing to do with one another, and I'm on much the same page as you.

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Originally Posted by Kazran

Should have posted a pic of some of the conan cover art work!

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/55/67/0d/5...tasy-armor.jpg

I mean the resemblance is uncanny! Right?!

/s

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Maybe if he ate enough of them. You are what you eat, after all.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I'm not seeing the issue. I am sure many JP posters come here to leave pictures as well. Certainly, no one was complaining when pics of slim male Viera were left there. I'd like to know what the JP posters think of the pic I posted, and since no one else had put it up, I thought I might as well do so.

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Mm. I note that there's no mention of the fact that the people posting slim bunny men were actively encouraging people to post the buff pictures over there. I feel as though the people criticising you for doing as much are deliberately overlooking that fact. Though reading between the lines, I'm inclined to wonder if the real issue is that the amount of likes on the buff bunny men pictures breaks the false narrative that is thrown around in regards to Japanese players only being interested in 'cute' and 'slim' aesthetics.

Either way, on my end the intention was only ever to provide some balance. So long as nobody from this thread posts over there again, there's no reason to balance things out again. Hopefully that means the attempts to make it into some major scandal can be brushed aside.

How dare people try to communicate with other players around the world, don't you know we are all separate and supposed to stay that way. Every region has it's own version of FfXIV and they do not effect each other ever!!!

How dare you try to be apart of a conversation about Viera Male design that being had by a part of the FFXIV community!!!!!

This game is not multinational!!!

/s

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Here. I gotcha fam. Enjoy. (though need larger ears!!!) -

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyqxbmQU8AArMBA.png

artist: https://twitter.com/Kotobuki_Eetu/st...81123435106304

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Have to admit I like this one best, but that's due to me being biased towards the Male Miqo'te build.

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Originally Posted by Kazran

How dare people try to communicate with other players around the world, don't you know we are all separate and supposed to stay that way. Every region has it's own version of FfXIV and they do not effect each other ever!!!

How dare you try to be apart of a conversation about Viera Male design that being had by a part of the FFXIV community!!!!!

This game is not multinational!!!

/s

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I mean, separate forums exist for separate feedback relating to that region/language sector, there's already quite a stigma about the NA community in JP. It just seems odd to post there when this thread already exists, again you can do what you want but on both sides whatever SE decides to do with Male viera is their own business and whatever feedback they get and sift through shouldn't have inclusions, of.

"Yes the EN players have been posting the JP forums about male viera as well."

Don't cross the streams man.

That art design is far too young looking. To the point where it'd be legitimately creepy to imagine someone like Fran mating with him or for players to dress him in some of the skimpier outfits available in the game.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

I mean, separate forums exist for separate feedback relating to that region/language sector, there's already quite a stigma about the NA community in JP. It just seems odd to post there when this thread already exists, again you can do what you want but on both sides whatever SE decides to do with Male viera is their own business and whatever feedback they get and sift through shouldn't have inclusions, of.

"Yes the EN players have been posting the JP forums about male viera as well."

Don't cross the streams man.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Either way I'm not here to police adults. Do as you please at your own consequence.

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Perhaps you should drop it now, given that you're seemingly only criticising one side to begin with?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That's far too young looking. To the point where it'd be legitimately creepy to imagine someone like Fran mating with him.

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Stating reasoning is now policing I guess, H'okay.

Edit: ??? I'm criticizing the people who addressed me in regards to the topic along with those that went on the JP forum to post period when this topic exists, I already stated on BOTH sides that it shouldn't be done in my opinion and for what reasons, along with why getting bent out of shape or criticizing ANYONE'S art or opinion about how they should look is silly since there hasn't even been an official response in regards to male viera being confirmed to be in development ON the forums. Unless someone is breaking ToS or outright posting they want alphinaud(SIXTEEN SUMMERS) as an optional body type there's no reason to jump to conclusions or get upset.

Whether it's the OP being bias or someone making a nonsensical argument because someone drew something they didn't like, I'll address if I see the need to. Really need to stop with the sides thing though because again whatever viera gets added is at the end of the day up to Yoshida to be added. If it's even added in the first place.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

I mean, separate forums exist for separate feedback relating to that region/language sector, there's already quite a stigma about the NA community in JP. It just seems odd to post there when this thread already exists, again you can do what you want but on both sides whatever SE decides to do with Male viera is their own business and whatever feedback they get and sift through shouldn't have inclusions, of.

"Yes the EN players have been posting the JP forums about male viera as well."

Don't cross the streams man.

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Ah yes segregation is best. Foreigners should never interact. Keep the races separate but equal!

Who cares how well the person might speak and understand the language. Who cares If English speakers might play on JP servers or the other way around!

Do not interact! Who cares if there might be different perspectives to be known and discuss nope nope!

/s

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Stating reasoning is now policing I guess, H'okay.

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Attempting to stamp out a particular action would easily count as 'policing'. Especially when your previous comment on the matter suggested that you were not going to address it again.

Having just checked the Japanese thread, nobody from the NA or EU forum has even posted there since the event in question which makes it all the easier to just brush the incident under the rug and disallow it from dragging this thread off course.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

I mean, separate forums exist for separate feedback relating to that region/language sector, there's already quite a stigma about the NA community in JP. It just seems odd to post there when this thread already exists, again you can do what you want but on both sides whatever SE decides to do with Male viera is their own business and whatever feedback they get and sift through shouldn't have inclusions, of.

"Yes the EN players have been posting the JP forums about male viera as well."

Don't cross the streams man.

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Separate forums exist not for separate feedback, they exist for separate languages (and btw there was a thread about this on JP forum). And one guy brought good example which I will bring up too: if somebody don't speak English/German/French, but do know Japanese, while they are not Japanese themselves - what should these people do? Should they be prohibited to use forum because they are not Japanese? Of course not.

The point is that you can use JP forum. It's not "territory" section, it's "language" section, which means that you should write in Japanese and follow their rules. As long as you write in proper language and don't do anything prohibited - it's okay.

Still, though, it's better not to spam there same as here, and it's better not to drop there any harsh opinion.

[Throws a bunny into the air as a distraction]

I wonder what kind of hairstyles we'll be getting when they finally come. A lot of arts show them with long hair and it'll match the aesthetic of the females. Because if the females can manage to be jungle Amazons with those hairdos, why can't the guys? And I'm so totally digging that aesthetic.
Push comes to shove I guess I'll have to buy the Ala Mhigan hairstyle, because gosh that'll fit. Hm.

I suspect that Viera and Hrothgar will have a lot of unique hairstyles, much like Au Ra to better account for their more unusual features. Personally I'm of the belief that a lot of the current hairstyles will look pretty jarring on them, since they're designed for Hyur first and foremost.

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Originally Posted by Kazran

Ah yes segregation is best. Foreigners should never interact. Keep the races separate but equal!

Who cares how well the person might speak and understand the language. Who cares If English speakers might play on JP servers or the other way around!

Do not interact! Who cares if there might be different perspectives to be known and discuss nope nope!

/s

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Are you calling me a racist?

https://gyazo.com/04e4c0488909ac74d4d3b748e6040f9e

Quote:

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Attempting to stamp out a particular action would easily count as 'policing'. Especially when your previous comment on the matter suggested that you were not going to address it again.

Having just checked the Japanese thread, nobody from the NA or EU forum has even posted there since the event in question which makes it all the easier to just brush the incident under the rug and disallow it from dragging this thread off course.

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I was replying to posts in reply to mine, whether indirectly or not, but whatever really.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Separate forum exist not for separate feedback, they exist for separate languages (and btw there was a thread about this on JP forum). And one guy brought good example which I will bring up too: if somebody doesn't speak English/German/French, but does know Japanese, while he is not Japanese himself - what should these people do? Should they be prohibited to use forum because they are not Japanese? Of course not.

The point is that you can use JP forum. It's not "territory" section, it's "language" section, which means that you should write in Japanese and follow their rules. As long as you write in proper language and don't do anything prohibited - it's okay. Still, though, it's better not to spam there same as here, and it's better not to drop there any harsh opinion.

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agreed!

and also i don't think this is the "official" NA forum as so many make it seem to be. It's the english forums, for everybody speaking english. i'm not from na and not from any english speaking country, but i use this forum since it's the most active one.
and i think many from other country do the same to comunicate with people from other countries speaking other languages... english is the "lingua franca" for many countries.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

agreed!

and also i don't think this is the "official" NA forum as so many make it seem to be. It's the english forums, for everybody speaking english. i'm not from na and not from any english speaking country, but i use this forum since it's the most active one.
and i think many from other country do the same to comunicate with people from other countries speaking other languages... english is the "lingua franca" for many countries.

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well if we point it like this, I'm not from NA and not from EU as well. None of the languages of this game is native to me. And there are thousands players who are the same. ツ

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Originally Posted by Halivel

follow their rules. As long as you write in proper language and don't do anything prohibited - it's okay.

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Wish this would also apply in the EN forum. But nah, rather put more salt into the wound. Some people just love to trigger others.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Wish this would also apply in the EN forum. But nah, rather put more salt into the wound. Some people just love to trigger others.

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Unfortunately (or not?), English speaking community is very big and also very different in terms of way of thinking for different players. EN section is 5 time bigger than JP. It's 140.000+ threads and more than 2 million comments here while JP has about 30.000 threads and 500 thousands comments. And while Japanese are more or less orginized and tend to act in specific way, here we have wide range of positions and opinions from all over the world. It's not bad, but it's just hard to orginize and moderate such community, there always will be some people, who act indecent. It doesn't excuse their behaviour, though.

Posting in the JP forums is OK as long as you do it moderately like they do, and only to share your opinion, after all, people move and post between forums, even the Japanese players do. What I see here is people being upset because we dared to throw some variety into a very one sided thread, as far as we know a non Japanese player could have started the short viera thing there, Senn indeed moved the omega M body type matter to the JP forums, it's just fair for other players to do the same with their opinions.