Melee roles are being gimped in this game

I have a bard and dragoon, I've used them both in extreme modes and in coil. I don't find dragoon any more difficult to play. Annoying sometimes if boss is moving around but more difficult? lol hardly

One doesn't have a faster run speed than the other, so I don't find it any easier or harder to dodge aoe with either which is what the game is about mostly.

Melee generally have the highest damage here. it more than makes up for the damage they lose traveling to the target.

It is very easy to notice the shocking difference in damage between bard and melee. Mages can clock up alot of damage but i guess they sorta have their draw backs too.

It's not really about melee being stronger or weaker than ranged it's about effort and risk Vs. reward. DRG and MNK are not to hard to play and yes you can use them in every fight in the game. The problem is the more you bring the sharper the difficulty can rise thanks to mechanics, side combos when eruptions is about to fire on ifrit X is death no if an or buts you will die and take up mp and lose a huge amount of DPS. The other hand not doing flank combos is also a DPS lose and puts you at a huge disadvantage Leaving you to make tough choices on the fly of when and when not to perform certain moves. Now compare this to BRD that can not only hide in the back full time, but can also continue to deal damage while moving.

Ifrit eruptions are a bad example because they are trivial for melee and impact range DPS just about the same.

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Originally Posted by Enforcer

I don't know. I'm currently on Turn 4 in Coil and i wouldn't say that i feel gimped because i'm bad, or don't know how to avoid zones, but simply because you have to work harder while having less damage output as a melee.

While there are bad ones who don't know their class very well or have a hard time dodging mechanics, the better ones shouldn't be put into a disadvantage to ranged classes.

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The fact that we did t4 with 4 melee dps and it was the fastest we ever cleared it (did it for fun) makes me think your lower dps comment is completely wrong.

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Originally Posted by Cligue

The fact that we did t4 with 4 melee dps and it was the fastest we ever cleared it (did it for fun) makes me think your lower dps comment is completely wrong.

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completely agree

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4tTWd20MYI 4 melee on turn 4. There's plenty of people that have done it.

Turn 4 has never been a big deal in terms of melee vs. ranged DPS. I don't know why people reference it as such.

If I had to guess it's probably because the whole turn is mostly just a big DPS race.

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Originally Posted by JetBrooks

You're complaining about melee in Garuda EX, but perhaps forgetting about casters in Titan EX. The Titan fight is far far easier for melee to maximize their DPS. And Ifrit EX doesn't seem to matter much either way (assuming healers don't murder melee with Searing Winds). So uh... sounds like a trade-off, no? I have DRG and BLM leveled, and simply take the easier job to its respective fight.

I'd rather take melee to Ultima HM as well, as I seem to be constantly interrupted when trying to play BLM on it.

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You actually make a very good point.

Unfortunately, my main is PLD. I play monk as a secondary, healer as a third and bard at a forth.. (i pretty much play everything but BLM cause i just dont like it haha)

With the rate gear becomes obsolete i dont get to play bard pretty much ever.. even though i could pull hate off a +1 DRG with my i55 weapon bard in garuda HM :)

I'm not complaining i'm asking that every fight every job is equally viable. Its not difficult to make content where one job isnt a major handicap... i dont know why the choose to make these choices.

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Originally Posted by Asakura93

I learned today that we, apparently, do not need to ever attack from the behind or flank. Courtesy of this Tank :)

http://i.imgur.com/3pdWYrp.jpg

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... again i main tank.. this is not something pleasant to see :/

I second monk and its the most annoying thing to have a tank running around crazy. I personally, when tanking try to keep the enemies back to the party and move as little as possible. I also mark the mob who uses indicated attacks that i need to dodge as #1 so that way i dont have another mob targeted then turn them and screw up dps while i'm dodging the other guy :)

While it may be melee dps > ranged dps in a pure DPS race, the risk vs reward still isn't there. Melee is inherently risky, as was discussed. Reward? Sure, you get more DPS, but not necessary DPS.

People can clear instances with 4 ranged DPS as well as they could clear it with 3 ranged/1 melee or 2 ranged/ 2 melee. Maybe you kill it a bit faster, but the DPS checks on these bosses doesn't require the extra DPS that MNK (and I guess DRG?) can put out.

It isn't risk vs reward then. The only benefit now is that if you rely on the limit break to be there at a certain time, you need at least 1 melee DPS in the party. Other than that... there is no reward for bringing melee DPS.

I agree with the OP, its getting frustrating showing up as Mnk in DF Garuda EX with sighs and moans as soon as the CS fades. Before we strated, I was only asking which to prioritize killing first (sisters) and one overly bitter WHM answered = "yourselves.." Kill yourselves..."

I've been to several failed DF Garuda attempts and each group seem to have difference in strat on the sisters part. Melee DPS have an odd disadvantage on this primal IMHO because of the WW timing.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Turn 4 has never been a big deal in terms of melee vs. ranged DPS. I don't know why people reference it as such.

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Personally I find that more melee make this fight easier. T1 and T4 melee really shine on and in both cases bringing extra melee isn't going to cause a problem.

i do agree garuda EX is an odd exception only thing i ask i usually do chirada first instead of suparna and i tell all partys Range DD u guys better carry me cause the downtime between sister while waiting on WW is a bit annoying...

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

Personally I find that more melee make this fight easier. T1 and T4 melee really shine on and in both cases bringing extra melee isn't going to cause a problem.

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Three melee on T1 is slightly annoying due to the multiple stacked spit pools.

Shrug, but "annoying" is just that.

As long as SE don't pull too many Gaurda EX or ADS (though melee will still outperform range DPS in these fights if he and the group knows exactly what they doing), than I'm perfectly fine with things the way they are. If they buff melee any more, its gonna cause imbalance issues. If you aren't confident, good, or knowledgeable enough to deal with the extra crap that melee has to deal with, then play a bard. Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

I second monk and its the most annoying thing to have a tank running around crazy. I personally, when tanking try to keep the enemies back to the party and move as little as possible.

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Think you missed the point. He's saying that the tank is telling him to stop moving "unnecessarily" even though he's a monk, which is hilariously. Even more hilarious is that tank brought up WoW, as if that has anything to do with it.

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

As long as SE don't pull too many Gaurda EX or ADS (though melee will still outperform range DPS in these fights if he and the group knows exactly what they doing), than I'm perfectly fine with things the way they are. If they buff melee any more, its gonna cause imbalance issues. If you aren't confident, good, or knowledgeable enough to deal with the extra crap that melee has to deal with, then play a bard. Simple as that.



Think you missed the point. He's saying that the tank is telling him to stop moving "unnecessarily" even though he's a monk, which is hilariously. Even more hilarious is that tank brought up WoW, as if that has anything to do with it.

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Actually, I suspect that has everything to do with it. The tank probably came from it, and nothing in that game moves half as much as the monk does. There's no flanking positional attacks; it's a few behind the target and a few in front of target attacks, and in general melee can just plant and only have to move when they dodge. The tank probably doesn't even realize monks have to move like that and the added movement is confusing him.

To which I say too bad, of course. Don't care if it bothers the tank; it doesn't actually affect him so ignore him!

I find it ironic that this still comes up and was one of the primary reasons brd got nerfed and melee got adjustments/buffs. Even though it was stated several times prior to 2.1 that mechanics of the fights hindered melee more than anything else.

Playing both melee and ranged I saw the actual mechanics of the fight hindering melee the most not only due to the rate at which conal/surround AOE occur, but because of the amount of damage they do. Adjusting/nerfing dmg output doesn't really change much if the ones getting the adjustments still have to move in and out of range or get interrupted during phase changes causing chain windows to pass or buffs to drop. I would have rather seen and adjustment to Sch or tank that gave upclose melee a better damage nullification instead of buffs/nerfs that didn't necessarily do much to help with mechanics that hinder melee.