BLM

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Originally Posted by shinros

So question I just got blizzard 3 should I be using blizz 3 and fire 3 to move between UI and AF? Instead of transpose? Since both spells put me into UI 2 and AF 2 straight away.

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gives you level 3 AF, UI right away. so you should use blizzard3 and fire3 for UI <-> AF switching purpose, yes.

Wow, can't believe I missed that. Still used transpose losing 1 full second of dps!

ok i'm confused here after reading over the first few pages.

Wanna just do a quick check:
For BLM is it THM lvl 30 + Archer lvl 15?? Or THEM lvl 30 + Arcanist lvl 15?

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Black_Mage here from the wiki it says archer. But the first few pages on this thread says that it's arcanist. So which is it? Cos i've just hit 30 on my THM and i'm at a loss here.

Black Mage is: 30 THM 15 Archer

Source - I am a Black Mage

So, most of you still agree that this -> [ Blizzard 3 (Umbral 3) -> Thunder 3 -> Fire 3 (Astral 3) -> Fire 1 (until Firestarter procs) -> 500 mana -> Blizzard 3 (Umbral 3) -> Repeat. --> Thunder 3 on every Thundercloud proc] is the best rotation so far?

Just a little Question:

Where is the accuracy cap as BLM?
I have a bit acc on my gear, and i have 100% hit with all of my spells (if the app is right).
But i would like to know the exact amount of hit we need. Without it feels like wasting many statpoints :>

Sorry I'm alil late here. So transpose is useless?

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Originally Posted by Rigus

Sorry I'm alil late here. So transpose is useless?

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Not useless, it becomes more of a utility skill. If you use too many fires and you're out of mana AND your convert is on cooldown (I think that's the name of the skill at work and drawing a blank, the one where you trade HP for MP), you transpose to get that 1 frost to get you mana faster to cast bliz3 to get back into your rotation.

At lower levels though (before you get blizzard 3 and fire 3) transpose is great for swapping between attacks when low on MP

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Originally Posted by Rigus

Sorry I'm alil late here. So transpose is useless?

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It still has a few uses. Like after nails on Ifrit. If he starts the triple leap while you are in a fire burn phase, UF3 will run off. You can just transpose to be back at full mana when the leaps stop.

Gotcha thanks

There are only 3 things when you want to use your transpose skill.

1. When you dont have enough MP to cast Blizzard 3 and you are on Astral Fire Mode.
2. When you are kiting enemy and need to replenish your Mana.
3. After you defeat a mob and your on Astral fire.

Does anyone find much use for our limit break?
I find that since adds usually go down fast enough or just are worth the limit break, melee limit break always seems like a better option.

I haven't directly been able to compare damage though. Is meteor ever really worth using?

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

I haven't directly been able to compare damage though. Is meteor ever really worth using?

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Ifrit hardmode.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Does anyone find much use for our limit break?
I find that since adds usually go down fast enough or just are worth the limit break, melee limit break always seems like a better option.

I haven't directly been able to compare damage though. Is meteor ever really worth using?

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And if you're doing 4 man dungeons and the other DPS is a Bard.

Hey, I have a question on limit breaks too.

I know that each bar raises the power level. But what I am getting at is, does it make a difference who in your group uses the LB when you have two BLMs but one has better gear than the other.... in otherwords is the damage done by a limit break static or is the amount based on your current stats?

Yes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...sle=true&pli=1

Limit breaks are just attacks with huge potency. The better your weapon, the more damage you do.

Edit: And Int/Det are a constant linear. They add the same amount of damage no matter what attack you do.

And Limit Breaks cannot crit.

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

Yes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...sle=true&pli=1

Limit breaks are just attacks with huge potency. The better your weapon, the more damage you do.

Edit: And Int/Det are a constant linear. They add the same amount of damage no matter what attack you do.

And Limit Breaks cannot crit.

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So Raging Strikes from archer works on the limit break? If so, that'd be incredible.

I find use for it in four mans due to the lack of diversity (2 blms or the other dps is a bard or summoner). Just not sure it's useful in bigger things. I'm asking cause I just got into end game so I have little experience.
Any particular boss fights that you found Meteor is viable?

@denda Thanks for mentioning Ifrit.

I enjoy a good BLM LB now and then, I just dislike that my character seems lost in thought for eternity after he casts it. It's imperative to position yourself somewhere that's safe for the next 2 hours while your character decides what his next course of action in life is and then writes a book about it because you won't be moving out of the way of anything while he's busy at it.

I'll use the demon wall boss as an example because it's easy and readily available, if you start the LB cycle to quickly drop the adds and you've made the mistake of being in the middle of the bridge when you decided to LB, you're getting hit by something and moving out of it is unlikely. LBs are great, but remember kids, safety first.

Not entirely sure but I think some people may be missing out on the important part of that 5% proc for thunder III.
It in't 5%
It's 5% per tick
So that's a 5% chance each tick for 24 seconds, so multiple 5% chances, which seems pretty decent odds to me. Or am I misunderstanding it?

No you're right. It's something like a 33% chance to proc over the course of a whole thunder III

Are you sure?

The percentage of the buff-procc doesn't add up, does it?

You have 8 ticks of the damage - so tick 1 = 5%, tick 2 = 5% etc. - it is just 5%, isn't it?

It's just a straight 5% per tick, I'm not sure where the number 33% throughout a full thunder III came up. If it ticked 20 times it would happen once which is 5%, nothing more nothing less.

Yeah I typoed. it's 34%
5% per tick. That's a 95% chance per tick nothings happens.
But you get 8 ticks per Thunder 3.
So .95^8 = .66. That's a 66% chance that over all 8 ticks of thunder 3 that you don't get a proc.
So per Thunder 3 cast you will proc 34% of the time.

This is how independent events work.
Say you're rolling dice. You want to roll a 1, that's an 1/6th chance ~16%. If you roll the dice 2 times you have two 16% chances for a 23% chance you will roll a 1 over your two tries.

I highly doubt your mathematics here, sorry. :)

Can't imagine that a 5% per tick chance makes it to a ~ 30% procc chance in the end.

Not my fault if you don't know how to do math on probability.

Here's how it works out ~halfway down.
http://www.mathsisfun.com/data/proba...ependent.htmls

edit for better link

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Originally Posted by Nyel

I highly doubt your mathematics here, sorry. :)

Can't imagine that a 5% per tick chance makes it to a ~ 30% procc chance in the end.

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His math is correct. 34% chance.

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Originally Posted by Nyel

I highly doubt your mathematics here, sorry. :)

Can't imagine that a 5% per tick chance makes it to a ~ 30% procc chance in the end.

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You misunderstand. What Rbstr is saying is that with a 5% probability of firing at each tick and 8 ticks per Thunder 3, over the course of the entire Thunder 3, there is a 34% chance that Thunderstorm will have triggered at some point during that duration. In other words, if you were to use cast Thunder 3 100 times, and let it tick its full duration, roughly 34 of those would proc a Thunderstorm at some point.
The probability of an event occurring at least once over a series of tries is obviously greater than the probability it occurs on a single event. Flip a coin a hundred times and the probability of at least one head is much, much greater than 50%.

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Originally Posted by Rbstr

So per Thunder 3 cast you will proc 34% of the time.

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This is correct. The only thing I would add to this is that it is a 66% chance that you don't get any proc; this is not the same as a 34% chance for one proc, which is what some people may be reading from this.

This is why some of you may be scratching your heads thinking "but if I have 80 ticks then I would get on average about 4 procs (one proc for each 20 ticks), which is 10 Thunder 3 casts, which means 4 procs/10 casts, or 40%, chance per cast, on average." The reason for this is because while you will only proc for 34% of casts, some casts will have multiple procs; the total number of procs per cast is about 40%.

TL;DR
The number of procs per cast over a large sample will be equal to about 40%, while the chance per cast for a proc at all (including multiple procs) is only 34% per cast.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Does anyone find much use for our limit break?
I find that since adds usually go down fast enough or just are worth the limit break, melee limit break always seems like a better option.

I haven't directly been able to compare damage though. Is meteor ever really worth using?

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Garuda Hard Mode.

Our FC allways goes with a BLM. The second time the Sisters Spawn (Suparna and Chirada) they all come to the center. Our BLM casts Limit level 3 on them and one shots them and also does decent damage to Garuda itself. Pretty neat IMHO.

Melee Limit is better for single targets tho.

But in Garuda BLM Limit Rock it rocks.

question for you blms, what are your opinions on eye for an eye?
my acn is only at level 12... i guess sooner or later i'll level the acn to learn it....

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Originally Posted by Eyria

So, most of you still agree that this -> [ Blizzard 3 (Umbral 3) -> Thunder 3 -> Fire 3 (Astral 3) -> Fire 1 (until Firestarter procs) -> 500 mana -> Blizzard 3 (Umbral 3) -> Repeat. --> Thunder 3 on every Thundercloud proc] is the best rotation so far?

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The beginning is something I've heard differently from a lot of places.

Some go Thunder II > swiftcast Fire 3 > fire 1(until proc) > 500 mana bliz 3, and use T3 on procs.


The only thing overall that annoys me about blm is that Firestarter's proc triggers when F1 hits the target, not on cast, if they keep it on hit, let us use the proc outside GCD.

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Originally Posted by Qvoth

question for you blms, what are your opinions on eye for an eye?
my acn is only at level 12... i guess sooner or later i'll level the acn to learn it....

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This is a vital cross class ability to help your healers for the 2nd half of Binding Coil of Bahamut. It will relieve dmg and in turn help your healers out not have to heal. This will also let them use a lower rank heal that would in turn generate less threat.

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Originally Posted by Rigus

Sorry I'm alil late here. So transpose is useless?

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Very situational, ideally you wouldn't want to use it or need to if done in a "perfect" rotation and timing of mods.

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Originally Posted by Eyria

So, most of you still agree that this -> [ Blizzard 3 (Umbral 3) -> Thunder 3 -> Fire 3 (Astral 3) -> Fire 1 (until Firestarter procs) -> 500 mana -> Blizzard 3 (Umbral 3) -> Repeat. --> Thunder 3 on every Thundercloud proc] is the best rotation so far?

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Pretty much sums it up, my rotation is below.

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Here is my rotation currently, please give any input that you see may be improved upon.

Single Target Rotation

• Pre Cast Thunder III just before tank pulls during a count down
• Swiftcast (Opener) + Raging Strikes (Cross Skill from Level 4 Archer) + Fire III (To get a 3 stack of Astral Fire)
• Fire (Till 15%-20% MP)
• Blizzard III (To get a 3 stack of Umbral Ice for large MP regeneration ticks)
• Thunder II (Reapply only if needed)
• Fire III (3 stack of Astral Fire reapplied)
• Fire (Till 15%-20% MP)
• Repeat Rotation....

Situational Reminders (For Single Target DPS)

• Only use Fire III when you have a 3 stack of Umbral Ice (Reminder when you have either 3 stack of Umbral Ice or Astral Fire, it will cut the cast time of your ice / fire spells by 50%.)
• Only use Thunder II when you are in Umbral Ice state, this will give you time for your MP consumption from Umbral Ice stacks to tick..
• Only use Thunder III when you have proc Thundercloud.
• While using Fire always weave in your free instant cast Fire III from Firestarter

AoE Rotation

• Fire III (To get a 3 stack of Astral Fire)
• Fire II (Till 20% MP)
• Blizzard III (To get a 3 stack of Umbral Ice for large MP regeneration ticks)
• Fire III (Target highest HP mob)
• Fire II (Till 20% MP)
• Blizzard III
• Repeat Rotation....

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Originally Posted by mpetason

Apparently it's when it connects. I usually end up using it after the next cast since you are about halfway in when you get the proc. Either they need to change it to on cast completion it procs, or allow it to stack instead of having travel time + hitting the target before you know you have it. Finish your cast, use the proc, and I guess accept that you will sometimes miss the chance to use every proc.

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If it procs while you are casting, you finish the cast, then, white the next fire 1 is in transit, insta-cast fire 3, can you launch that fire 3 in time for the fire 1 you were casting to trigger a new proc?

I really am curious where the idea of Thunder II cast + Thunder III for procs came from. Do people have data on this? The tool-tip explicitly states if you use Thunder II for the dot, your thundercloud procs will have a 295 potency no matter what rank thunder spell you use to trigger it. Whereas using Thunder III gives a 345 potency thundercloud proc, again no matter what rank use you to trigger it.

So if you cast thunder II and a thundercloud procs, you can hit Thunder I, II or III and they will all do the same damage. There's no "bonus". Is using Thunder III for procs, putting up Thunder III's dot(instead of re-applying Thunder II's) and then that turns all future Thundercloud procs into the 345 potency instead of 295, until you hard cast thunder II again?

I'm not seeing the benefit of losing 50 potency per cloud proc for .5 seconds of cast time(outside situations with tons of movement).

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Originally Posted by Cinge

So if you cast thunder II and a thundercloud procs, you can hit Thunder I, II or III and they will all do the same damage. There's no "bonus". Is using Thunder III for procs, putting up Thunder III's dot(instead of re-applying Thunder II's) and then that turns all future Thundercloud procs into the 345 potency instead of 295, until you hard cast thunder II again?

I'm not seeing the benefit of losing 50 potency per cloud proc for .5 seconds of cast time(outside situations with tons of movement).

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I think the argument about the time was more about time spent sitting at full MP, and not spamming fire, than it was about movement. But I have only seen conjecture, no math yet, but it seems possible that getting back to fire spam .5 sec quicker might be better than a few more tics and a more frequent/potent proc.

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Originally Posted by Cinge

I really am curious where the idea of Thunder II cast + Thunder III for procs came from. Do people have data on this? The tool-tip explicitly states if you use Thunder II for the dot, your thundercloud procs will have a 295 potency no matter what rank thunder spell you use to trigger it. Whereas using Thunder III gives a 345 potency thundercloud proc, again no matter what rank use you to trigger it.

So if you cast thunder II and a thundercloud procs, you can hit Thunder I, II or III and they will all do the same damage. There's no "bonus". Is using Thunder III for procs, putting up Thunder III's dot(instead of re-applying Thunder II's) and then that turns all future Thundercloud procs into the 345 potency instead of 295, until you hard cast thunder II again?

I'm not seeing the benefit of losing 50 potency per cloud proc for .5 seconds of cast time(outside situations with tons of movement).

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"Grants a 5% chance that after each damage over time tick inflicted by any Thunder spell, the next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III will add its full damage over time amount to its initial damage, have no cast time, and cost no MP."

I don't see anywhere in the tooltip that it states a set base potency on proc. Due to not stating a base potency, the clear choice here is the highest one.. which would be Thunder III.

Keep in mind when you overlap thunder debuffs they do not merge, you will lose the dps on the remaining ticks from the "refresh."

i think more than most here are assuming hardcasting a higher rank spell will do more overall damage
this is incorrect

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Originally Posted by Elvine

"Grants a 5% chance that after each damage over time tick inflicted by any Thunder spell, the next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III will add its full damage over time amount to its initial damage, have no cast time, and cost no MP."

I don't see anywhere in the tooltip that it states a set base potency on proc. Due to not stating a base potency, the clear choice here is the highest one.. which would be Thunder III.

Keep in mind when you overlap thunder debuffs they do not merge, you will lose the dps on the remaining ticks from the "refresh."

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You forgot to bold one extra word. It makes a big difference. See: here

Read Descriptions for Thunder and friends. Specifically states that, if you cast Thunder I, you will do a 240 potency for the Thundercloud even if you use Thunder 3. I haven't done tests but, I see no reason for tooltips to not be telling the truth.

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

You forgot to bold one extra word. It makes a big difference. See: here

Read Descriptions for Thunder and friends. Specifically states that, if you cast Thunder I, you will do a 240 potency for the Thundercloud even if you use Thunder 3. I haven't done tests but, I see no reason for tooltips to not be telling the truth.

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The tooltips for the individual Thunder spells are inaccurate. Or rather, you would want to focus on the tooltip for thundercloud:

Grants a 5% chance that after each damage over time tick inflicted by any Thunder spell, the next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III will add its full damage over time amount to its initial damage, have no cast time, and cost no MP.

If you test it in-game, you would find that it actually holds true.

When you get a thundercloud proc, if you mouseover the tooltips, you would see that the first line of the tooltip changes to Deals lightning damage with a potency of 240/295/340, respectively for T1, T2 and T3.

Further testing on dummies also shows that a Thunder III thundercloud proc does more damage than a Thunder thundercloud proc. In my case, Thunder III does around ~750 dmg, whereas Thunder only does ~500 dmg.

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Originally Posted by Elvine

"Grants a 5% chance that after each damage over time tick inflicted by any Thunder spell, the next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III will add its full damage over time amount to its initial damage, have no cast time, and cost no MP."

I don't see anywhere in the tooltip that it states a set base potency on proc. Due to not stating a base potency, the clear choice here is the highest one.. which would be Thunder III.

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Not sure which Tooltip is right, but you should check out the Thunder I,II,II tooltips.

Thunder III
Additional Effect: 5% chance after each tick that potency of next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III will be 340, have no cast time, and cost no MP

Thunder II
Additional Effect: 5% chance after each tick that potency of next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III will be 295, have no cast time, and cost no MP

Thunder I
Additional Effect: 5% chance after each tick that potency of next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III will be 240, have no cast time, and cost no MP

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Originally Posted by Elvine

Keep in mind when you overlap thunder debuffs they do not merge, you will lose the dps on the remaining ticks from the "refresh."

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Also that is not exactly true, you should check out how DoTs/HoTs are working in this game. In FFXIV:ARR you could even get a little DPS BOOST with DoT clipping. (random)

Here's a guide which shows pretty clear how DoTs/HoTs are working in this game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQGGTKgL8-g