Auto Attack wins!

I am in favor of watching television while doing battle

I am strongly against using the same key more than twice in a battle

The point is: whoever had to push same key more than twice in battle, was playing the game wrong.

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Originally Posted by Lamhirh

The point is: whoever had to push same key more than twice in battle, was playing the game wrong.

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Pushing three or more times and it's playing with yourself. ;)

Choosing to use diverse attacks when repeating the right one would be the better choice is not a valid way to prove that the system has depth or fun.

Also your EVE online comment was just like the SWG one. You're missing the biggest point here: those games had/have playerbases. Those games had an acceptable number of players that liked the systems the way they were. You listen to the current players when there are players to listen to. You listen to the current players when making them happy is more profitable than risking pissing them off in order to try and grab new people.

Since you need it spelled out: This game does not have a profitable playerbase. This game doesn't have an acceptable number of players (or potential players) that are happy with the current systems.

<30k players is not a niche, it's a server shutdown, at least for an MMO like this.

thise games fouhgt for their playerbase. eve start was hard and difficult, and it took years to get to current state. SWG was different. The built on one of biggest name in industry ever made: Star Wars. they had people from start, and had nice playerbase, but wanted to change, and they lost it.

WOW SE smart smart smart choice... And all you haters of auto attack can suck it... It is the only way to move forward with the battle system in my eyes.. WOOT!

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Originally Posted by Maat

WOW SE smart smart smart choice... And all you haters of auto attack can suck it... It is the only way to move forward with the battle system in my eyes.. WOOT!

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You wankers heard the man

Just shut up and stop complaining. Deal with it. Auto Attack is in. Auto Attack is Winning. There is no need to continue posting on this thread as SE has spit it's verdict in all of your faces. Deal with it.

/TheEnd

I think my brain cells commited suicide after reading the last page of this thread

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

I think my brain cells commited suicide after reading the last page of this thread

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Doesn't this happen in...every thread? lol

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

Doesn't this happen in...every thread? lol

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Lol, good point

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

What server are you on? I haven't seen anyone use the party search since December on Saronia.

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I guess all the fast learners are on karnak :P

Hey I attempted to have to logical conversation on the issue, while trying to respect opinions. 2 pages later and... yeah.

well, i have to say, i am dissapointed by the confirmation that we will indeed be having an auto attack. But i can't say i'm surprised. Hotly debated, and flamed about since the forum was opened, and finally we have a winner.

I won't claim i'll stop playing or anything, i just hope they don't /change/ things so much as /improve/ them. I love battle in FFXIV as it stands right now, granted the animations and effects could use some looking at in some abilities, but i never truly felt it needed changing too much.

All i can say is it's a good job they ASKED what people wanted before they just did it, otherwise we'd have a similar situation to the CU and NGE updates to SWG. and we all know how well that went down, people don't like surprises.

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Originally Posted by Galamantyl

Pushing three or more times and it's playing with yourself. ;)

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this made my rolflmao irl.

YAY! The game is on the right track ! Keep up the good work!

In other news, Guild Wars2 and TERA understand that Auto-attack is antiquated and have moved on from that.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

In other news, Guild Wars2 and TERA understand that Auto-attack is antiquated and have moved on from that.

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I'm trying to be optimistic but I can't help but be slightly distraught about their decision. If FFXIV was faster paced like WoW(or other "twitch" MMOs) then maybe that auto attack feature wouldn't be such an issue for me. However, just like with the other barely detailed responses I will reserve judgement until that patch releases.

Meh... I don't care for auto-attack, but whatever. Just please don't half-ass it.

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Originally Posted by Reika

A lot of people use the party search feature... it works just fine.

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That was a pretty delusional comment lol.
If by a lot your definition is one party non english speaking in one area at most a day sure.

You can't really argue this point, no one uses it, and its not because they DONT want to party or lack of people online, its a badly coded feature. I think you meant to post that in the FFXI forum cause this so not true for 14.

As it pertains now most people lvl with friends and leve with guildies.
Once the party system is fixed so we aren't forced to solo grind like in WoW..... this is going to change.
Solo ? Sure, but the whole point of the party mechanic changes they are working SO hard to change will be for not unless they fix the simplest thing off all to fix.

I see someone said they will be addressing this however its not in the developer's list of things to "Re evaluate" right now, was this recently said?
Or before the new team took over.

I also remember them saying that but it was near release a LONG time ago, and have seen nothing about it since then.

Now that we know what's happening... the anticipation is still building inside me.
I can't wait any longer ahhhhhhh :)

Auto Attack wins so do the AFK DDs that suck at their job. Atlest I can let them grab hate and disband the PT.

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Originally Posted by Grimm

Auto Attack wins so do the AFK DDs that suck at their job. Atlest I can let them grab hate and disband the PT.

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As I understood it, its probably gonna be more involved than that.

well thats just ... fuck!

*shakes head and walks off*

I don't care if they add it or not.... at least they're adding something that will make grinding in between behests slightly less boring/dreadful :P

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Originally Posted by Akumu

I'm trying to be optimistic but I can't help but be slightly distraught about their decision. If FFXIV was faster paced like WoW(or other "twitch" MMOs) then maybe that auto attack feature wouldn't be such an issue for me. However, just like with the other barely detailed responses I will reserve judgement until that patch releases.

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The thing about this is, sure WoW has auto attack, but remember it is also possible to get good xp without doing ANYTHING else when using it, making for quick but brainless effort battles.
The dev here however stated they do not plan on making it so you can auto attack and quickly win for xp.
This is the main difference.
FFXI was like this, if you only tried to auto attack you would not win, in fact you would get your **** handed to you on a goblin platter.
I'm not to worried about this being considered a copy from FFXI.
Auto attack is a feature, not something specific to one mmo. I think this is going to make the game great as long as it does NOT follow auto attack tactics like in wow.

What they seem to be doing here is ONLY taking the auto attack speed from wow, but keeping strategic elements on top of it such as in ffxi. Successfully implementing both to keep things fun without spamming and giving us a challenge.

I personally can not wait for AA.
Less spam, more talking in fights, and most of all easier planning of strategy which sounds like will be a requirement. So woorah.

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

As I understood it, its probably gonna be more involved than that.

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Keep in mind, that all the extant of the details we were given, I'm waiting for details before I pop the champainge

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Originally Posted by Picoman

Im looking forward to having more time to concentrate on other game systems rather than pressing 1, 1, 1, 1, 1.

Might actually be able to communicate with party members.

To everyone crying about change, id say the way SE are implementing things we are likely to see a toggle on/off.

Lets just wait and see.

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If Matsui is truly planning to make changes that would "prevent players from winning fights by just using AA", you're not going to have extra time to chat.

See, that's the thing that's pissing a lot of people off. They want to keep battle fast-paced. And yes, he's said they're adding AA, but he also said they'll still be keeping battle interesting and fast-paced. So you won't be able to have your conversations with your party unless you do exactly what people are complaining about:

Only AAing while you're chatting away incessantly.

AA isn't changing anything except giving people an excuse to be lazy.

Now granted, I'm fine with the AA if they do make other skills more important and keep it fast-paced, like he said they're planning. But at the same time, just having AA at all is going to give an excuse to bad players to either AA while watching TV or AA while they chat about how their day went and what their favorite video games are (or whatever other topic gets their geek on).

You guys shouldn't worry about bad players this much, seriously. FFXI had a small community, FFXIV will be the same. If someone is bad enough it will spread fast. Kick him from your party and blacklist him ... he either starts playing properly or simply quits the game since he can not get a party anymore. I do not see the problem.

I hardly played with bad players in FFXI. There were lots of them. I hardly played with bad players in WoW .. there were millions of them. It is me that decides who I play with so why should I care and worry about someone being a bad player? Get over it already.

Kae I can see how you came up with that, but
How I'm taking their making things fast paced is simply increasing animation and delay on AA attacks so characters aren't standing around for 15 seconds at a time like in XI.

If this is their take, then players should be able to chat just as much as they did in XI during fighting, because the faster pace is being granted from things going on automatically,

While player inputted manual commands will be needed a little less.

If their plan is to eliminate the feeling of spam attacks, AND, increase battle pace, then this is how they would HAVE to do it with their statement.
Remember, they plan on doing both (ironically to someone that does not play this sounds contradictory)

While at the same time you can't simply win with AA, so in that case they would need to increase the time it takes to kill a single mob. As even with a majority of the spam being for fighting, another large portion is from targeting because fights are too short, some before you can even get one swing in.

Are bad lazy players going to come about from implementing AA? Of course! They're going to instinctly revert to how they played other MMO's, which is to let the AA feature do almost all the work, and most FFXI players KNOW you can't do that.

So just like in XI and as stated by evenstar you just have to kick them from party and not play with them. The community will eventually weed them out for being lazy a**hats.

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Originally Posted by UnrealTai

Kae I can see how you came up with that, but
How I'm taking their making things fast paced is simply increasing animation and delay on AA attacks so characters aren't standing around for 15 seconds at a time like in XI.

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I sincerely hope that is not the case. If it is, they aren't keeping it fast-paced, they are slowing it down.

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If their plan is to eliminate the feeling of spam attacks, AND, increase battle pace, then this is how they would HAVE to do it with their statement.
Remember, they plan on doing both (ironically to someone that does not play this sounds contradictory)

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Actually, he says the exact opposite. "we are thinking about making the auto-attack system for FFXIV have a shorter attack delay". "battles rich in strategy, pace, and exhilaration". "require proper timing of abilities, magic, and weapon skills.". So my point still stands that you won't have time to have a conversation during battle.

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While at the same time you can't simply win with AA, so in that case they would need to increase the time it takes to kill a single mob. As even with a majority of the spam being for fighting, another large portion is from targeting because fights are too short, some before you can even get one swing in.

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I highly doubt they will increase the time it takes to kill something. That would just piss people off. Additionally he says, "that with the exception of weak enemies, you will not be able to win by using just AA." Meaning you'll be able to AA weaker enemies to death.

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Are bad lazy players going to come about from implementing AA? Of course! They're going to instinctly revert to how they played other MMO's, which is to let the AA feature do almost all the work, and most FFXI players KNOW you can't do that.

So just like in XI and as stated by evenstar you just have to kick them from party and not play with them. The community will eventually weed them out for being lazy a**hats.

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Oh, I know that it's MOSTLY the player's fault for being a lazy bum... but there is no reason to ENCOURAGE laziness.

as long as they don't make sheild guarding auto I don't care. the only reason I didn't want auto-attack
was fear that they would mess with that.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

I'm wondering how auto attack will work with archer and multishot....

This isn't a feature I've been clamoring for, but if they think that it'll work best with the new battle system, then ok, I guess... We'll see.

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Unless they give arc a melee weapon of some kind, or unless this auto attack can be turned off, I believe it will affect arc for the worst, not gonna repeat my reasoning, since it clearly fell on deaf ears.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Unless they give arc a melee weapon of some kind, or unless this auto attack can be turned off, I believe it will affect arc for the worst, not gonna repeat my reasoning, since it clearly fell on deaf ears.

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Yeah, people tend to ignore points that are made that hurt their case.

I doubt they will give them a melee weapon, so I really don't have any clue how they plan to deal with the problems of AA for Archers.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Unless they give arc a melee weapon of some kind, or unless this auto attack can be turned off, I believe it will affect arc for the worst, not gonna repeat my reasoning, since it clearly fell on deaf ears.

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Don't worry guys, they're turning it into WoW.

I guess they didn't get the memo that WoW is outdated nowadays...

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

I doubt they will give them a melee weapon, so I really don't have any clue how they plan to deal with the problems of AA for Archers.

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-Auto-attack can easily be a toggle: click once to start, click again to stop.

-Abilities like multi-shot/trifurcate/other buffs could reset the auto-attack timer and so they can be used mid-battle without having to toggle the attack off manually. I'm pretty sure Boost did this in FFXI.

As for other individual worries the guy you quoted brought up:

-If you toggle auto-Close-Shot on and you put multi shot or trifurcate up, they won't go off unless you switch to auto-Light-Shot. I fail to see how this is any different than the current system. If you spam Close shot after putting them up, the abilities won't be used up.

Either way, I find more likely for abilities like Close Shot, Heavy Thrust, Light Strike, etc, to be left as they are, perhaps with a small TP cost, cooldown, or removing their ability to generate TP. They don't necesarily have to be transformed into methods of auto-attack.

Some of them could even be turned into buffs that modify the effect auto-attack has: Heavy Slash could be turned into a buff that increases the enmity generated by your auto-attacks for the next x seconds.

-If you choose to keep auto-attack toggled on while you're blinded and you're worried about wasting ammo, then that's your own problem. How is it different than spamming light shot while you're blinded? If you're smart enough to stop pressing 1, you're smart enough to press 1.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Yeah, people tend to ignore points that are made that hurt their case.

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But I have to agree with this.

In the end there's too much worrying about what they're doing, but nobody is really at fault. They haven't given us enough information. Wait for that before crying about it, at least. There are a lot of approaches that could be taken and a lot of changes that could be made to accomodate for all these problems.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Unless they give arc a melee weapon of some kind, or unless this auto attack can be turned off, I believe it will affect arc for the worst, not gonna repeat my reasoning, since it clearly fell on deaf ears.

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I do have to agree with you on this also, as a LNC I do use my alt. basic attackss often and do wonder how this will effect me as well.

I really never understood why people complained so much about spamming 1 either, I mean every other game out there makes you press the same button again if you want to do that action, not like the game does the dirty work for you most of the time. I know they need to add a way for players to talk but saying the current combat system needs to go is a pretty weak statement with nothing to back it up.

How are they turning it into WoW(auto-attack wise)? im sure FFXI was there before WoW.. and they are taking stuff from FFXI and making it a bit different.

even if ARC don't get melee weapons, would that matter? did RNG in FFXI melee(non-solo)?, RNG melee weapons in FFXI was there just for the stats it gave for the archery.

i dont see how ARC cant have auto-attack?it would just be like close range dd but far away. Multishot would just overwrite the auto attack untill it is used.