[dev1008] About Jumping

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

"Why ruin that trend?" Did you seriously just ask this? It never ceases to amaze me how rooted in tradition some of you are, only for the sake of upholding those traditions. Just because something's a trend doesn't mean it can't be altered for the better. SE really needs to put a stop to their antiquated ideals before it's too late.

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Jumping in MMOs is just a stupid gimmick. And I'm not rooted in tradition. I've played WoW to 80, and several other MMOs that all had jump. In the end, I stand on my opinion that jumping is just a stupid gimmick. I saw no value added with jump and thought all those scenarios mentioned previously where jump was used were again, just annoying gimmicks that removed from the fluidity of the game.

+1 in support of jump feature.

You put your right foot in you put your right out you stick your left foot in and you hear the players pout! You push the space bar and you flail all around, that's what it's all about!

I would like a jump feature to be added. It may not seem like a lot, but it really gives a HUGE sense of freedom to be able to move and jump where you want to go. So I guess I am not only in favor of adding the jump feature, but also the ability to jump on top of terrain features.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Not being able to get over knee-high obstacles is incredibly annoying. This was never a problem in 2D RPGs, and it also doesn't cause much of a problem in the pseudo-3D environments of the PS1 titles, but presents a huge limitation in true 3D RPGs. The inability to jump has been a major problem with several FF games ever since FFX, which was the first truly 3D entry in the FF series.

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Major problem? Seriously? So, if not being able to jump was such a major issue in FFs since X, why are they all rated at least above 85 on aggregate review site Metacritic? And why do I not see "inability to jump" as a con in any of the reviews I'm looking at? Really.

Not having a jump option does not become a "major problem" it becomes a -mild- inconvenience in a -limited- number of areas. Gosh, the people who are acting as if jumping is the end all, be all of a game are almost as bad as the ones who can't stand the idea of -any- jumping at all.

What is wrong with the contextual approach? It addresses the problems of "knee high" obstacles and avoids the problem of bunny hopping loonies. Where is the problem?

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Originally Posted by Menchi

It isn't about people not wanting to jump themselves, it is about not wanting everyone bunny hopping about.

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You could design player-initiated jumping in such a way that bunny hopping is impossible, such as adding a substantial delay where you can't move after you land, for example.

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

You could design player-initiated jumping in such a way that bunny hopping is impossible, such as adding a substantial delay where you can't move after you land, for example.

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I know right? There problem solved!

Yes because this game possesses so much character and atmosphere. What with the silent cities the lack of a reason to ever group up a weak and short story and very little lore. Jumping will be what ruins the game.

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Originally Posted by Talwin

Jumping in MMOs is just a stupid gimmick. And I'm not rooted in tradition. I've played WoW to 80, and several other MMOs that all had jump. In the end, I stand on my opinion that jumping is just a stupid gimmick. I saw no value added with jump and thought all those scenarios mentioned previously where jump was used were again, just annoying gimmicks that removed from the fluidity of the game.

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Your opinion is wrong, sorry. :(

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Originally Posted by Menchi

What is wrong with the contextual approach? It addresses the problems of "knee high" obstacles and avoids the problem of bunny hopping loonies. Where is the problem?

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There isn't anything inherently wrong with contextual jumping, it's just that it would probably take longer to program and implement at this point is all.

And "bunny hopping loonies" are actually not a problem. The REAL loonies are the people who let something so small annoy them so much. Personally, I never get annoyed in the least when I see another player jumping around in other MMOs. It's not something that bothers me, and I think it's silly to complain about it.

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Originally Posted by Talwin

Jumping in MMOs is just a stupid gimmick. And I'm not rooted in tradition. I've played WoW to 80, and several other MMOs that all had jump. In the end, I stand on my opinion that jumping is just a stupid gimmick. I saw no value added with jump and thought all those scenarios mentioned previously where jump was used were again, just annoying gimmicks that removed from the fluidity of the game.

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There are plenty of MMOs where jumping isn't just a gimmick. Plenty of people posted the ways WoW uses the manual jumping to make combat and dungeons more complex. Even if the jump feature is a gimmick in an MMO, who cares? Also, who's saying that we want it now? Jumping adds freedom to the game, which is something a lot of people enjoy about MMOs. I could care less when they implement it, as long as it gets implemented at some point

I made a thing

http://i52.tinypic.com/30rrwi0.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/2vi5ac4.jpg

edit: dont start with "you couldnt jump that high" pugilists can dunk on a t-rex.

People who don't like manual jumping seem to dislike freedom also, tracking their other threads. It really saddens me that you play an MMO and treat the environment as nothing more than something to passively digested but never explored, etc.

Didn't go through all the pages, didn't see a lot of point.

Just going to say that jumping, manual jumping, would be a huge lift in this game for me. It helps to break up the tedium that is otherwise very long walks, and adds to your exploration possibilities. Even something as simple as jumping over a small rock if I feel like it can be add a lot to the experience.

If people don't want to see people jumping for no reason in town, fine, disable jumping in town. But when I'm out there leveling and trying to enjoy the game, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't be able to jump.

LOL these people just focus on the negatives of jumping... They could later add dungeons where you have to climb, jump, and swim making the game more of an adventure. TERA does this and it looks great, so why not? MOST of you people voted you'd accept radical changes to this game, so what's wrong with jumping?

I would not like jump AT ALL put in FFXIV. I see no need for it. It isn't hard to just walk around the rocks and cliffs.

Only William Wallace can use the word freedom with a sense. Don't talk about freedom, we are not under an evil king.

If, from a point of view it can add contents, because you can add tactics (as I have already posted in page 9),
from another point of view it removes contents, because the world is not projected to skip "checkpoints", what you will able to do jumping (some quest).
For example, monsters do not fall off when targetted, and I will be able to apply this kind of glitch:

Hit a monster,
Wait until it's near,
jump the cliff,
hit,
wait until it's near,
jump.

fun, is it?

Of course this is advantage of ranged. melees will have to fight normally.
Monsters can be done able to cliff down a rock face. Ok, What about ranged monsters?
Do you prefer monsters fighting on a rock face? If you are a ranged, it's fine, but a melee?

What I'm trying to say is: with the feature "jump a fence" there will be a lot of problems to fix. However, something like FFX-2 or FF13 is more realistic.

or you could disable jumping in combat, which i'd probably do.

I would NOT mind jumping if it's like FF13. You get near the border, you click ''x'', you drop down. It's SIMPLE, it would make it easier to walk around the environnement and it wouldn't look stupid. (ex : People jumping around in uldah)

If it enhances gameplay, I'm all for it. Agreed with the idea of something similar to FFXIII's jump system. I'm not entirely sure jumping is necessary, but it could certainly make for some thrilling exploration.

I'm not opposed to jumping, as long as it doesn't break what's already there. If you make the landscape useless; there's no point... you might as well fly around at will.

My vote for jumping is to have it implimented as abilities, and not a spacebar/X jump. Sure the Melee jobs can all jump to avoid shockwaves (Drg(High jump); Gld(Leap); Mur(Lunge); Nin(flip); Soilder( Sorry - you can't jump with all that armor.) But please be creative SE. Bring 'Float' back. A 'Levitate' too maybe. Maybe the Thief could 'Climb walls'. Please make all this stuff ability based. No spacebars.

Maybe just add it to the contextual actions like "sit", "stand", or "use lift" etc. That I wouldn't mind. Though free form jumping, I'm not so against either. What will it bring though? Unless they give us some areas where skilled jumping is required to access or changes gameplay, why even implement it? Don't implement things just for the sake of implementing it...

If you can't jump in real life I say leave jumping out of the game. Oh wait, you are retarded CSLionheart because I can jump in real life. I know, why don't they let everyone jump and put you in a wheelchair in game.

Manual jumping is the way to go. You want game immersion? Nothing makes you feel more immersed than being able to do what you want in game. This ff13 style jumping is just as dumb as it was in ff13. It makes sense for a linear game, not an MMO.

Immersion is directly affected by limitations. Think about it... "I would really like to see whats on the top of this hill. Hopefully SE has put something there and will let me hop up some platforms to see it". Or, "I wonder if I can get on on top of that hill'. Then try to jump and climb. What's more immersive? What's more fun? To have something so basic like jumping limited is just nonsense its bad enough you can't even jump in game at all right now.

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Originally Posted by Rayle

Manual jumping is the way to go. You want game immersion? Nothing makes you feel more immersed than being able to do what you want in game. This ff13 style jumping is just as dumb as it was in ff13. It makes sense for a linear game, not an MMO.

Immersion is directly affected by limitations. Think about it... "I would really like to see whats on the top of this hill. Hopefully SE has put something there and will let me hop up some platforms to see it". Or, "I wonder if I can get on on top of that hill'. Then try to jump and climb. What's more immersive? What's more fun? To have something so basic like jumping limited is just nonsense its bad enough you can't even jump in game at all right now.

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But the bored bunny hoppers!

I think the only complaint I have ever heard about jumping is the hopping-while-bored thing. It's the most nitpick-y thing I can imagine.

Oh boy, a person is jumping around when bored. Why does it matter? Is that really a strong enough negative about jumping that it warrants destroying some really cool things SE can otherwise do with jumping?

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Originally Posted by Sav

If it enhances gameplay, I'm all for it. Agreed with the idea of something similar to FFXIII's jump system. I'm not entirely sure jumping is necessary, but it could certainly make for some thrilling exploration.

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Yeah, would be great for some vertical oriented dungeons or mountain areas similar to Mt. Ordeals/Koltz.

Examples: Mount Koltz video

Mount Ordeals video

The reason why context sensitive jumping would work with XIV, is that any spot could be an action spot, similar to examine. Not just for jumping, but for climbing as well. Manual jumping would be fine, but keep in mind they motion capture every action players can perform, so that could mean no bunny hopping since the animation might take awhile to end.

I see only two ways this can go: Realistic jumping where you can just cross a small natural gap, or climb up a small cliffside. Or Advent Children style craziness...which wouldnt really fit in this environment.

I really hope Yoshi-P has plans for some really detailed and unique dungeons (XI didnt really have a decent mountain or tower zone that felt like a true high location, aside from running around Al'Tieu or Riverne) planned.

I vote that Jumping is the least of FFXIV problems right now, and I'm kinda upset @ all the pages of this thread.

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Originally Posted by WolfOak

My vote for jumping is to have it implimented as abilities, and not a spacebar/X jump. Sure the Melee jobs can all jump to avoid shockwaves (Drg(High jump); Gld(Leap); Mur(Lunge); Nin(flip); Soilder( Sorry - you can't jump with all that armor.) But please be creative SE. Bring 'Float' back. A 'Levitate' too maybe. Maybe the Thief could 'Climb walls'. Please make all this stuff ability based. No spacebars.

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I am completely the opposite. I think it's interesting to have individual types of jump. And perhaps it's a good idea to even limit jumping to people in light armour, but a menu-derivative ability is the worst idea. Go into action stance -> deploy ability. Do you have any idea how annoying this is whenever you want to use Quickstride?

It needs to be more fluid. It feels so contrived and unnatural at the moment. Whenever I want to sprint, I have to use some ability called Quickstride by first going into a specific stance, flipping through my action bar menu and then activating it. All I want to do is run faster, it shouldn't feel that arduous and unnatural. The same applies to a jump.

I want jumping. Walking up to a small, small cliff and not being able to just hop over it infuriates me. It makes the game feel dated to me. People act like jump spam will be everywhere - and even if it is, so what? Contextual jumping is nonsense, it'd take forever to implement. Id actually prefer regular style jumping, it could be used for travel in future map updates and encounters.

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Originally Posted by Rayle

Manual jumping is the way to go. You want game immersion? Nothing makes you feel more immersed than being able to do what you want in game. This ff13 style jumping is just as dumb as it was in ff13. It makes sense for a linear game, not an MMO.

Immersion is directly affected by limitations. Think about it... "I would really like to see whats on the top of this hill. Hopefully SE has put something there and will let me hop up some platforms to see it". Or, "I wonder if I can get on on top of that hill'. Then try to jump and climb. What's more immersive? What's more fun? To have something so basic like jumping limited is just nonsense its bad enough you can't even jump in game at all right now.

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This is FF forums, you can't try to appeal to people's sense of adventure/reason, you can only appeal to their sense of tradition. Everyone here is so entrenched in the idea of not having jump because they think of it as incompatible with an MMO, and especially with an FF title, only because of tradition and nothing else. It's no wonder this game is in such a state, look at the target audience.

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Originally Posted by Aeru

I vote that Jumping is the least of FFXIV problems right now, and I'm kinda upset @ all the pages of this thread.

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It is, but the issue of jumping has always been a big deal as far back as WoW vanilla and FFXI.

I just don't want to stop moving forward when i run into a cliff that was slightly too high for me to just walk down. I don't need jump, I just want some of the effects it has on a character's <x.y.z> positions.

I vote for NO jumping, at least not like you can do in Wow or CoV. I look at it as a cartoony, and I think it fits in with the style of those MMOs, but I think it would be absolutely ridiculous in a FF game and ruin the game play. There is no reason for a dedicated jump feature. I do agree with those who have suggested allowing an ‘auto jump’ feature like in FFXIII or the Zelda games. But I think if you do that, can all races jump/scale the same height distance.

If SE does that i'll make a Lalafell male Character with a little mustach called Super Mario, just to mock off ppl :)

It should drain 1/3 of the stamina bar to prevent spamming.

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Originally Posted by Rau

It should drain 1/3 of the stamina bar to prevent spamming.

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I vote for no jumping, but if people won't shut up until they get it, AT LEAST implement this guy's BRILLIANT idea.

Lots of reading to do here but I have to say, now that Lalafells are the smallest thing in the game they should be able to jump. We need to keep them from having a complex.

But in all seriousness. If we are going to get jump, then how about swimming. Wading in water at least? But I digress...

I think jump would be fun, we don't NEED it no, it has no use but to entertain unless we get a feature that will let us jump over 3 inch ledges. I don't even know if jumping would allow us to do it. There would have to be a lot of physics to take into consideration to do it correctly.

1. Okay lets say they add jump, do you think it is possible for SE to add a way to be able to turn off the visual action of it if you didn't want to see it happening?

2. If the majority of the community is more conservative when it comes to jumping do you really think that it will be used to the point of abuse?

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3. I like the stamina idea, but then would that put you in active mode and then you would have to get in and out of active mode? Meh... maybe allow it to be in passive mode with stamina?

I can't believe this stuff. When you guys see track and field with long jumping and high jumping do you guys shudder and turn the tv off real fast then pretend you never saw it? Its just jumping.... its not like its going to cause you emotional distress. Grow up, guys.

Jumping (in some form) is standard in most 3D games these days. That there is such resistance to the idea out of nothing else other than tradition and a desire to limit what others can do shows what's holding this game back.

If the concern is realism, just have jumping consume Stamina, or maybe give a 30-second "Winded" debuff that disables jumping after using it more than a few times in a row without a few seconds of rest. There are sensible solutions that don't involve sounding like you're old hat.

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Originally Posted by Rayle

I can't believe this stuff. When you guys see track and field with long jumping and high jumping do you guys shudder and turn the tv off real fast then pretend you never saw it? Its just jumping.... its not like its going to cause you emotional distress. Grow up, guys.

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You're exaggerating. The issue people are having isn't jumping in sports, it's jumping for no reason in everyday situations. People simply don't jump around while shopping for groceries, or talking to their peers. Emotional distress is a stretch, but it'd sure feel awkward.