fflogs and privacy

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

But if people didn't record other people's gameplay performance without telling them how would they then proceed to use it against them in earnest later?! Think!!! /s

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I don't know what's worse...

The fact that YOU thought you needed the /s

Or the fact that I think the /s is necessary

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Originally Posted by Phyoka

I don't know what's worse...

The fact that YOU thought you needed the /s

Or the fact that I think the /s is necessary

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Tried it without the /s on a previous post, users of fflogs of course were offended and assumed I meant everyone who ever even thought about the thing had the sole intent of harassing people, decided to play the safe route this time!

Fact is if you like it or not, Square knows about FFLogs and they will never do anything against it and that is completly fine, If you dont like it just quit the game, sayonara

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

Fact is if you like it or not, Square knows about FFLogs and they will never do anything against it and that is completly fine, If you dont like it just quit the game, sayonara

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"if u dont like something just quit lol XD"

So... if you don't like people complaining about it, would you also be quitting? Or does "thats different" apply to you when concerning your own logic?

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

"if u dont like something just quit lol XD"

So... if you don't like people complaining about it, would you also be quitting? Or does "thats different" apply to you when concerning your own logic?

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The difference is, i complain about people not about the game or something square does, but yea if 95% of everything i could say about the game would be complains then yea i would quit

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

The difference is, i complain about people not about the game or something square does, but yea if 95% of everything i could say about the game would be complains then yea i would quit

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But... you're complaining about people who are complaining about the game which is kinda caused by the game, so I feel like your own logic would apply to you here, at least a little bit?

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

But... you're complaining about people who are complaining about the game which is kinda caused by the game, so I feel like your own logic would apply to you here, at least a little bit?

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not really and i mean tbh im not even really complaining about the people right now, i just stated how it is, fflogs is a site which is involved with ffxiv for many many many years now, do you actually know how square gets his infos for balancing issues? not only through the "own" data, its no secret that devs using external sites for job balance, be it ffxiv or wow or eso what ever, so square clearly knows about fflogs and just dont care about and and so they will never care about it either

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

not really and i mean tbh im not even really complaining about the people right now, i just stated how it is, fflogs is a site which is involved with ffxiv for many many many years now, do you actually know how square gets his infos for balancing issues? not only through the "own" data, its no secret that devs using external sites for job balance, be it ffxiv or wow or eso what ever, so square clearly knows about fflogs and just dont care about and and so they will never care about it either

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If they rely on fflogs for balancing issues like you're saying and the game is still this poorly balanced, they should stop relying on it.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

Fact is if you like it or not, Square knows about FFLogs and they will never do anything against it and that is completly fine, If you dont like it just quit the game, sayonara

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true and straight to the point

no need to read 20 pages

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

If they rely on fflogs for balancing issues like you're saying and the game is still this poorly balanced, they should stop relying on it.

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The community, not SE, relies on fflogs to assess balancing issues. Without fflogs, identifying job discrepancies would be much harder and more reliant on personal anecdotes instead of aggregated data. That information ultimately makes its way to SE through channels like the official forums.

Since the introduction of fflogs, the game’s overall balance has improved compared to the pre-fflogs era. It’s still not perfect, but we’ve gotten closer to an ideal state because players now have concrete performance data to make balance demands. Pictomancer is a perfect example of this.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

Square knows about FFLogs and they will never do anything against it and that is completly finea

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How can you call this "completely fine"? Square can invalidate any player complaint due to these tools not being official. Although uncommon, they've already done so: "we have different numbers". The playerbase always indirectly admits using third party tools when they ask for changes, which is against the ToS. Most of the times, Square turns a blind eye when answering. It feels like two groups of children having a conversation.

While the third party website doesn't want to hide people's nicknames, their profile being private by default would be very easy to achieve. We need an official FFXIV tool, and anything different is far from "completely fine", so long as Square keeps the same stance towards ACT.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

If they rely on fflogs for balancing issues like you're saying and the game is still this poorly balanced, they should stop relying on it.

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And how would you suggest they do a large sample pool containing all levels of mastery over the job concerning the content they release?

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Originally Posted by brinn12

How can you call this "completely fine"? Square can invalidate any player complaint due to these tools not being official. Although uncommon, they've already done so: "we have different numbers". The playerbase always indirectly admits using third party tools when they ask for changes, which is against the ToS. Most of the times, Square turns a blind eye when answering. It feels like two groups of children having a conversation.

While the third party website doesn't want to hide people's nicknames, their profile being private by default would be very easy to achieve. We need an official FFXIV tool, and anything different is far from "completely fine", so long as Square keeps the same stance towards ACT.

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Its fine for me because im used to it, Final is the last Game which is kinda "primitive" Eso allows Mods even goes so far to Support in the Future Mods on Consoles, WoW allows Mods, so many MMO allowing Mods because thats something where the feature in MMOs are, only Final refuses it "Official" while lets be real, they dont really care like i said earlier


And the biggest Issue is not "ACT" or "FFLogs" its the Crybabys which are scared of to get kicked out of a Group because of the Logs while refusing to even try to IMPROVE.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

And the biggest Issue is not "ACT" or "FFLogs" its the Crybabys which are scared of to get kicked out of a Group because of the Logs while refusing to even try to IMPROVE.

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Just keep in mind that people like you are the reason we don't have ACT in FFXIV. Probably never will. And any instance of using it is illegal, while other MMOs either have it or allow third party usage, like you pointed out. You're being part of the problem, not the people you're referring to.

the problem are the extreme ends on both sides. its not just one of them.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

And how would you suggest they do a large sample pool containing all levels of mastery over the job concerning the content they release?

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There are many variables fflogs simply doesn't account for when determining player skill. Why do you find it a flawless way to balance content, rather?

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

And the biggest Issue is not "ACT" or "FFLogs" its the Crybabys which are scared of to get kicked out of a Group because of the Logs while refusing to even try to IMPROVE.

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What about the people who don't care about their logs... are they also a "crybaby" in your definition? Because, nobody likes being kicked out of groups, I don't think you'd react positively to it either.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

What about the people who don't care about their logs... are they also a "crybaby" in your definition? Because, nobody likes being kicked out of groups, I don't think you'd react positively to it either.

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I would accept it, is my Playstyle or my "Skill" not the Standard certain Groups want, then i accept it and move on instead of going to the Forum and complain about FFLogs, you cant force your way in a group if your standard is not the same as the group standard

im not a top player either not even close to it, but i carry my own weight and i expect the same from everyone, if you wanna do content carry your own weight if you cant dont expect to get carried and be mad if you get kiicked

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

I would accept it, is my Playstyle or my "Skill" not the Standard certain Groups want, then i accept it and move on instead of going to the Forum and complain about FFLogs, you cant force your way in a group if your standard is not the same as the group standard

im not a top player either not even close to it, but i carry my own weight and i expect the same from everyone, if you wanna do content carry your own weight if you cant dont expect to get carried and be mad if you get kiicked

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Can people not "carry their own weight" and not care about their logs at the same time? They're not mutually exclusive.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

Can people not "carry their own weight" and not care about their logs at the same time? They're not mutually exclusive.

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Ofc they can, but let me ask you something if people wouldnt "care" would the whole fflogs thing even matter? no, they complain and trying to get rid of it even because it matters for them and i mean its not like you get kicked because you are only blue or purple, if you get kicked because of the logs would mean to be constant at grey which would mean you lacking significant class fundamentals

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

Can people not "carry their own weight" and not care about their logs at the same time? They're not mutually exclusive.

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If they don't care about their logs then why is FFLogs a problem?

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

Can people not "carry their own weight" and not care about their logs at the same time? They're not mutually exclusive.

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If you don't care about your performance, you are likely not "carrying your own weight".

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Originally Posted by brinn12

Just keep in mind that people like you are the reason we don't have ACT in FFXIV. Probably never will. And any instance of using it is illegal, while other MMOs either have it or allow third party usage, like you pointed out. You're being part of the problem, not the people you're referring to.

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In terms of usage, it’s like ACT is legal

I bet at least 80-90% of the Ex/Savage/Ultimate pf you join, someone have ACT running

Even if SE makes ACT legal, harassment will still not be allowed

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

What about the people who don't care about their logs... are they also a "crybaby" in your definition? Because, nobody likes being kicked out of groups, I don't think you'd react positively to it either.

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Well if you dont care about your logs you should not join EX+ pf

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

If they don't care about their logs then why is FFLogs a problem?

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It isn't? Until someone starts bugging you about it anyway

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

Well if you dont care about your logs you should not join EX+ pf

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I don't think every single ex+ pf relies 100% on logs, but if thats how you determine which pfs you join, thats cool.

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

If you don't care about your performance, you are likely not "carrying your own weight".

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So good logs = good player, bad logs = bad player...? Yikes.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

So good logs = good player, bad logs = bad player...? Yikes.

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I said nothing about logs. I said not caring about your performance.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

So good logs = good player, bad logs = bad player...? Yikes.

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Kinda yes, like i said earlier, lets take it a step further

You clear a fight, you didnt die, your log is bottom grey, and that means since you even didnt die that you are lacking fundamentals of your class.

Idk sometimes i think that people think to even reach Green/Blue Logs you need already to play very very good which isnt even true, to reach blue you just need to understand the core of your class and press buttons, if you are constant grey you straight up lack every fundamental and core the class has

Not everyone has problems with the numbers site because they don't want to improve. In addition to percentage numbers, people are also kicking people for many other things that they should have no way of knowing, like number of clears/prog point/boss HP%.

Like for example, let's say I'm extremely confident in mechanic C and don't make any mistakes during it, so I go and join a prog PF for mechanic D, but I get kicked because I've never seen mechanic D due to the fact that my party keeps wiping to someone not doing mechanic C properly and so boss never starts casting mechanic D.

Or another example, let's say I clear savage week 1 and want to clear for my alt too, so I join a clear PF and get kicked because I have no logged amount of prog on that character. Does that mean I should go and join prog PFs even though I gain no benefit from it at all?

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Not everyone has problems with the numbers site because they don't want to improve. In addition to percentage numbers, people are also kicking people for many other things that they should have no way of knowing, like number of clears/prog point/boss HP%.

Like for example, let's say I'm extremely confident in mechanic C and don't make any mistakes during it, so I go and join a prog PF for mechanic D, but I get kicked because I've never seen mechanic D due to the fact that my party keeps wiping to someone not doing mechanic C properly and so boss never starts casting mechanic D.

Or another example, let's say I clear savage week 1 and want to clear for my alt too, so I join a clear PF and get kicked because I have no logged amount of prog on that character. Does that mean I should go and join prog PFs even though I gain no benefit from it at all?

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For the alt thing I would just say it when joining.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Not everyone has problems with the numbers site because they don't want to improve. In addition to percentage numbers, people are also kicking people for many other things that they should have no way of knowing, like number of clears/prog point/boss HP%.

Like for example, let's say I'm extremely confident in mechanic C and don't make any mistakes during it, so I go and join a prog PF for mechanic D, but I get kicked because I've never seen mechanic D due to the fact that my party keeps wiping to someone not doing mechanic C properly and so boss never starts casting mechanic D.

Or another example, let's say I clear savage week 1 and want to clear for my alt too, so I join a clear PF and get kicked because I have no logged amount of prog on that character. Does that mean I should go and join prog PFs even though I gain no benefit from it at all?

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Is this really a thing? I have never been kicked out of a party for lack of progress on my alts. Getting my first clear on an alt is usually what causes me trouble, because farm groups are locked behind a kill requirement and kill for friend / enrage parties tend to be... not as kill for friendy or enragy as I would hope ^_^. But lack of progress has never been an issue for me. And I have never experienced someone being kicked from a party for a similar reason.

I personally have been PF-ing a LOT for the last 3 tiers and the instance when somebody got kicked was so rare and in between that it's almost not worth mentioning. Also, it was never because they had a grey parse but more because their consistency was a complete ass for whatever reason. It doesn't matter if they saw the mechanic or not.

I am generally a lot more inclined to kick and blacklist, for a limited time, the people who lie about their prog point or who do not remove themselves if they have an off day because I absolutely despise people that do that.

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Originally Posted by Xelanar

Is this really a thing? I have never been kicked out of a party for lack of progress on my alts. Getting my first clear on an alt is usually what causes me trouble, because farm groups are locked behind a kill requirement and kill for friend / enrage parties tend to be... not as kill for friendy or enragy as I would hope ^_^. But lack of progress has never been an issue for me. And I have never experienced someone being kicked from a party for a similar reason.

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It's a thing but rare. I was removed, for what I can only assume was for parse related reasons, on my main trying to get reclears done. I joined with two other friends and two of us were removed a couple of minutes after joining without a word with the PF still being up afterwards. We both reached out to ask why to complete silence.

So yeah, it exists but definitely not the majority or at the point of being a real issue.

Being kicked due to the website OP mentioned is rare.

But more and more people are normalizing the use of the other stalking website that they have, which makes every log uploaded public by default, including wipes. Naturally, this will happen more in Ultis. Some people can prog a Savage fight in 1 or 2 lockouts.

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Originally Posted by ExcellusUltimus

I would love to see SE sue the creators of FFLOGs and have the website shut down permanently. FFLOGs is a blight on this game, and the average player doesn't have the intelligence necessary to use the website in a reasonable manner.

Hell, last night I was in a party for Chaotic and somebody insulted me for having less than 20 logged clears. (I had 19.) Even though I've cleared all content in the game, including all ultimates, most on patch, since 2.0.

FFlogs provides fuel for morons and the community would be better off without it.

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If we followed your logic in real life there would be no cars, no knives, no string/thin rope, no pillows, no flammable items, no heavy blunt objects, etc. Why? Because some morons decided to use those things to harm others. Better chop off everyone's hands while we're at it, those are also used to harm others regardless of the useful tasks they can also do.

Removing a tool that morons use won't stop them from being morons. They'll find other tools to use for the same ends. Maybe we should focus on doing something about the morons instead?

The morons can be reported to SE if they are harassing other players in game. They can be reported to Discord if they are harassing people in Discord. They can be reported to YouTube or Twitch if they are harassing people in their content creation.

Kick them from your parties if they start harassing other players while in party. Leave their parties if they're the party leader. Don't let them benefit from acting like morons.

It's sad a large part of the community wants to continue to enable the morons by allowing (or demanding) the blame to be shifted elsewhere instead of doing something about the morons who are responsible for the harassment.

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Originally Posted by brinn12

Being kicked due to the website OP mentioned is rare.

But more and more people are normalizing the use of the other stalking website that they have, which makes every log uploaded public by default, including wipes. Naturally, this will happen more in Ultis. Some people can prog a Savage fight in 1 or 2 lockouts.

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Tomestone is actually GOATed tbh. Being able to spot prog liars in PF is basically essential for ultimate. I've seen people trying (and failing) to skip whole phases of prog. Tomestone is the best way to confirm that they 100% need to be blacklisted for trying to lie their way into groups and aren't just having a bad day.

Mishapen Chair says it best also applies to discussions to job variety.

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Originally Posted by Xelanar

Is this really a thing? I have never been kicked out of a party for lack of progress on my alts. Getting my first clear on an alt is usually what causes me trouble, because farm groups are locked behind a kill requirement and kill for friend / enrage parties tend to be... not as kill for friendy or enragy as I would hope ^_^. But lack of progress has never been an issue for me. And I have never experienced someone being kicked from a party for a similar reason.

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You can't join [Duty Complete] parties on an alt that hasn't cleared anyway. You have to send the party leader a /tell and say "hi, this an alt. my main is Character Name. is it ok if i join?" and have them invite you.

I don't think the person that you were replying to even thought about their complaint before making it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If we followed your logic in real life there would be no cars, no knives, no string/thin rope, no pillows, no flammable items, no heavy blunt objects, etc. Why? Because some morons decided to use those things to harm others. Better chop off everyone's hands while we're at it, those are also used to harm others regardless of the useful tasks they can also do.

Removing a tool that morons use won't stop them from being morons. They'll find other tools to use for the same ends. Maybe we should focus on doing something about the morons instead?

The morons can be reported to SE if they are harassing other players in game. They can be reported to Discord if they are harassing people in Discord. They can be reported to YouTube or Twitch if they are harassing people in their content creation.

Kick them from your parties if they start harassing other players while in party. Leave their parties if they're the party leader. Don't let them benefit from acting like morons.

It's sad a large part of the community wants to continue to enable the morons by allowing (or demanding) the blame to be shifted elsewhere instead of doing something about the morons who are responsible for the harassment.

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That's an interesting slope to follow, I dare hope it's not too slippery. The real question becomes where do you put the line and how many morons are "some morons", and how much of their "moronic" culture spreading is too much, becoming the de facto standard of acceptance that shapes the rules permeating the whole community?

You chose cars and makeshift weapons. Could have also gone for hard drugs on the other end of the spectrum.

Which one is the better analogy here? I don't honestly know, but I'll let you chose.