you know what grinds my gears?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptistar

thats not elitist thats normal

even the jp shouts on our server specify if its a "experienced wanted" or "practice PT"

---

Nah, normal wouldn't exclude people just because they've never done it before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

Nah, normal wouldn't exclude people just because they've never done it before.

---

I guess it depends on your goal. If you have 6 people who want to speedruns I don't see anything wrong with only accepting experienced people. If you have 6 people hanging around town and just want to do something for the fun of it then fine invite whoever. I don't think lowering your requirements below your set goal would allow is elitist.

There is a difference between these 2 goals "doing hamlet and getting some wins" and "doing 67K hamlet runs". Both can be fun but you are going to set up the party differently depending on your goal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

Nah, normal wouldn't exclude people just because they've never done it before.

---

I've actually had a party do that before, they were doing Darkhold and I just happened to be standing there and was invited xD there was a roegadyn who never did darkhold before and they kicked him immediately. (They were only doing DH for 3 people who needed quests finished and no speed runs whatsoever)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pyretta_Blaze

I guess it depends on your goal. If you have 6 people who want to speedruns I don't see anything wrong with only accepting experienced people. If you have 6 people hanging around town and just want to do something for the fun of it then fine invite whoever. I don't think lowering your requirements below your set goal would allow is elitist.

There is a difference between these 2 goals "doing hamlet and getting some wins" and "doing 67K hamlet runs". Both can be fun but you are going to set up the party differently depending on your goal.

---

Does anyone do hamlet defense just for a win? Forgive my naivety, but I don't think anyone does. Of course they want 60k! Do you realize how easy it is to get 60k? It's incredibly simple! You don't need a provisioner at all. You can easily train anyone who is completely new to hamlet defense in a matter of about 5 runs. Now, knowing that is the case is it elitist to not allow new players to tag along? I think so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AsterBarnivere

I've actually had a party do that before, they were doing Darkhold and I just happened to be standing there and was invited xD there was a roegadyn who never did darkhold before and they kicked him immediately. (They were only doing DH for 3 people who needed quests finished and no speed runs whatsoever)

---

who was the party leader? and are they on your blacklist? they would be on mine. what a douchebag!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pyretta_Blaze

I guess it depends on your goal. If you have 6 people who want to speedruns I don't see anything wrong with only accepting experienced people. If you have 6 people hanging around town and just want to do something for the fun of it then fine invite whoever. I don't think lowering your requirements below your set goal would allow is elitist.

There is a difference between these 2 goals "doing hamlet and getting some wins" and "doing 67K hamlet runs". Both can be fun but you are going to set up the party differently depending on your goal.

---

You can be efficient as a player, but not allowing an inexperienced player into the group is a bad move for the community.

Who's going to show that baddie: where to stand, how to use their abilities correctly, how to improve themselves as players?

Having content in the game that makes the above kind of interaction a negative experience is counter productive in the long run.

Edit: That said, if you know someone is bad and is unwilling to improve or even try, yes remove them from your party.

Since reading and watching videos does only so much in the long run, it's the actual fight experience that makes all the difference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

Since reading and watching videos does only so much in the long run, it's the actual fight experience that makes all the difference.

---

^^ this

Everyone has different styles of learning. I learn by doing. No amount of watching videos, or reading about a fight will actually make the info sink in for me. I need to experience it for myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

who was the party leader? and are they on your blacklist? they would be on mine. what a douchebag!

---

I forgot, but he was a roe PLD, there were 2 blms (One was like "LOL bye" when they kicked the new guy) and 2 whm.
I asked why they kicked him and got the answer "He was a newb, we don't need any newbs ruining our run" and I replied: "It's not really a "Run" when you're only going through half the dungeon for AF items"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

^^ this

Everyone has different styles of learning. I learn by doing. No amount of watching videos, or reading about a fight will actually make the info sink in for me. I need to experience it for myself.

---

I also learn by doing, I memorized the entire DH map on my first run (I'm surprised by how many people forget the DH's layout by the time they open the 2nd gate)

I can watch a video 100 times and never really understand the fight until I have seen it.

And yes, people do things just for the fun of it still... I got with a couple of Linkshells that do things just to do them. It can be hard to find them, but there are those people out there still who are willing to both teach, learn and just play for the sheer joy of playing.

I am fortunate enough to have people to play with that respond positively to "Hey, I need my BLM final fight" and "I haven't done Ifrit before, can I come?" I'm not talking about months ago, I am talking last weekend. And this wasn't to help out old time friends always either this was some guy who just got his first 50 last week.

But I also understand it when people get tired of teaching the 200th person where to stand and what to do and just want to do some runs with experienced people. Next week they will probably be teaching the 201st person how not to die.

Also, 5 hamlet runs might be someones entire night... If I don't want to spend my night training someone I shouldn't have to. That said, I probably would because I love playing with people who are learning. It's a great way to make new friends. But no one should be forced to...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pyretta_Blaze

I am fortunate enough to have people to play with that respond positively to "Hey, I need my BLM final fight" and "I haven't done Ifrit before, can I come?" I'm not talking about months ago, I am talking last weekend. And this wasn't to help out old time friends always either this was some guy who just got his first 50 last week.

But I also understand it when people get tired of teaching the 200th person where to stand and what to do and just want to do some runs with experienced people. Next week they will probably be teaching the 201st person how not to die.

---

It's also true that an experienced XIV player will have an easier time finding skilled players to attempt high end content with. More-so than a green 50 with little to no experience and no reputation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShivenCasull

It's also true that an experienced XIV player will have an easier time finding skilled players to attempt high end content with. More-so than a green 50 with little to no experience and no reputation.

---

True, but a new person just needs to take the effort to find the right people to play with. I have had good people to play with for 2 years. I was new once too. I answered shouts, joined pugs, asked for pearls, tried to be generally helpful and nice and in return I have lots of good people to do things with. I still do all of the above and I still get to meet good people both new and old players alike.

It does take effort and there are assholes out there that will piss you off. I have been rejected by parties and linkshells. I've been kicked out of both. My gear wasn't good enough or I had the wrong job leveled or I wasn't experienced enough or whatever.

You have to get over it and move on always trying to grow your relationships with good people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

Nah, normal wouldn't exclude people just because they've never done it before.

---

well, i dunno, maybe your definition of elitist is a little lower standard than ours.
... cause it is normal >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pyretta_Blaze

True, but a new person just needs to take the effort to find the right people to play with. I have had good people to play with for 2 years. I was new once too. I answered shouts, joined pugs, asked for pearls, tried to be generally helpful and nice and in return I have lots of good people to do things with. I still do all of the above and I still get to meet good people both new and old players alike.

It does take effort and there are assholes out there that will piss you off. I have been rejected by parties and linkshells. I've been kicked out of both. My gear wasn't good enough or I had the wrong job leveled or I wasn't experienced enough or whatever.

You have to get over it and move on always trying to grow your relationships with good people.

---

Makes it sound as if it's simple to just throw a party or LS together as a completely new player. It takes work and some luck to meet people who are worth associating with and it's not always easy. This is true for any new activity, but I'm advocating that we can all be a little nicer to the new guys.

An example is: I played XI for a year after the NA release and about 6 months after I quit I returned to the game. I had previously made some aquaintences in the valkrum dunes while leveling. After returning they were the "elite" players in my LS. (both of them being 75 and geared)

This isn't personally against you, either Pyretta, just as a complaint about most gaming communities these days. Us vs them, and all that crap, and I'm personally really tired of it. :p

I never said it is simple, I said it does take effort and luck has a hand in it too. In my case it is taken 2 years of almost daily effort and I try work on building a wider circle of friends every time I play. There are a lot of other people helping out the new guys but you rarely see a forum post about "Someone helped me out!" even though it happens every day.

If people need training they have to look for it and we do need more of the experienced players to help. It is true a lot of LS's can't seem to look past their current roster needs.

But if I have spent the last 3 hours telling people what to craft in a Hamlet Defense and I just want to go do a few AV speedruns before bed then I should be able to if I want to and if that means building a party out of experienced players than I should be allowed to play with who I want to. No one is entitled to be in my party just as I am not entitled to be in anyone else’s.

Us vs. them isn’t a gaming community thing it is a human nature thing and we deal with it every day. The beauty of the 'them' group being the inexperienced is that they can fairly easily become one of 'us' with a little work and cooperation from both sides.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pyretta_Blaze

Us vs. them isn’t a gaming community thing it is a human nature thing and we deal with it every day. The beauty of the 'them' group being the inexperienced is that they can fairly easily become one of 'us' with a little work and cooperation from both sides.

---

We're in agreement, at least according to your closing statement. :P

It's not wrong to seek high quality members in a group for difficult content. I've had more than my fair share of pugging and dealing with horrible situations.

While it is typical human behavior to conflict... to do nothing about it when MMO's have (arguably) the most technological advanced community in the world. If we're not part of the solution... but I'm on a tangent.

Best of luck to you Pyretta.

You dont really even need a linkshell to tackle the content in xiv, just a friends list of reasonbly skilled players. End game linkshells should be like your home away from home in xiv. Sure there are cliques in it, and it will always suck looking in from the outside but thats only because you havent earned a right to be in it. Loyalty is something that shouldnt be given either so freely. People move servers for linkshells, because theyre worth doing so for.

One reason to answer that question:

It's like melding your gear. would you rather have 90% chance or 2% chance.
HQ VS NQ.

I find that the application keeps people who are incompatible out of an LS, rather than have someone join and find that they are a total jerk to everyone, some would like to avoid such things. A follow up interview is only getting to know what kind of personality you are dealing with. The applications I have come across, are pretty simple and uncomplicated. I find that someone who is unable to fill out an application, due to a hang up, will more than likely not fit in to the LS.

I have however found that some LS' have been rather rude and "Elitist" in their selections. The Elitist ones are easy, just don't join if you aren't looking for that Elite mentality, they usually specify "We are an Elite LS". The rude ones, they just need a better form of leadership. They would rather strike down on their applicants with closed minds and unfounded accusations. <= this has happened to me. Other than that, everything has a purpose and if used correctly will ensure that everyone, in the said LS, will have fun and enjoy each others company.

Every once and a while you may get someone who weasels their way in with lies and greedy intentions, but that's an easy fix. "DABOOT!" <3 gotto love it :p.

I hope you find what you're looking for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amyas

'u r idiot' Well i guess that speaks for itself right there. If I get a drop and there is someone else with the class to use it that I haven't leveled, of course i'm going to cede it to them. But if some douche leader says "thats mine u r noob" I would instant drop pt, ls, blacklist :/ I can't believe I actually read this on here. My experience with my ls is great, if it drops in your loot list its yours, the rng chose you, and no amount of some asshats douchery can change that. (Why are you trying to ruin my idea of how awesome the ff14 community is? I generally haven't seen much of this stupidity in game... guess it [I]is[I] a forum but still... its the forum for 14 :/)

---

I love it. 7 likes to your 0. The people have spoken.

<==== winner!

Look, if you set the terms in advance that RNG is king prior to joining fine. I'm not knocking that. No one is making you join a group that has different drop/lot rules. People saying that LSes that reward dedication/skill/loyalty is douchey or elitist "r idiot". The players joining the LS on those terms are fine w/ it. Some LS's set goals, and RNG is not the most efficient way to accomplish that. You act like other forms of drop allotment are below you or unfair. As the votes clearly indicate, most people find it to be a reasonable form of item allotment.

P.S. - U. R.

Checked your profile. It helps to explain why you can't see the other side o' the coin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Destain

I love it. 7 likes to your 0. The people have spoken.

<==== winner!

Look, if you set the terms in advance that RNG is king prior to joining fine. I'm not knocking that. No one is making you join a group that has different drop/lot rules. People saying that LSes that reward dedication/skill/loyalty is douchey or elitist "r idiot". The players joining the LS on those terms are fine w/ it. Some LS's set goals, and RNG is not the most efficient way to accomplish that. You act like other forms of drop allotment are below you or unfair. As the votes clearly indicate, most people find it to be a reasonable form of item allotment.

P.S. - U. R.

---

i agree with you destain. i would like to add something small to it. you know i have ran events with your group before and we had pretty good luck. you also know i have all classes that are capped.

what i wanted to add is even though i can equip every piece of gear for every class doesn't mean that i should or do lot on pieces that i don't play often. you guys know i play as mage primarily and that's all i will lot on. if a tank or dd piece drops you know i won't lot on it because it will be a wasted drop besides the once every 6 months i touch one of those classes.

the reason i bring this up is because alot of people don't realize that some ls's have these types of rules is the fact that if a good item drops to a tank and a non tank gets the item then it really is a wasted drop. when i go on ls runs or just random parties i am there to help the group/ls. if the ls tank gets the tank drop then it helps the whole ls/group the next time you do runs together. if a non tank gets the drop it helps nobody since the item cannot even be used. you should always gear up based off of your party setup/primary classes. once those are given to the people that needs them most then yes anyone else is welcome to them.

the people that want the drops for classes they don't even have leveled i see as more selfish than the people wanting to make the entire group better. it's selfish for a r40 player to say they deserve something when they are not even able to equip a piece of gear when the person in the party can instantly equip the item and help the party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

In all honesty I see the opinion of both sides because I have been playing MMOs for nearly 15 years and I understand the aspects of both sides of the arguments. Though as of lately I have been leaning to the side that I gave the spiel about. We all play the game for enjoyment and we all have different views of how things should be handled , hence part of the reason there are so many different LS's/Guilds in games. Each have their own unique rules and how things work, if you like one way over another then play with whatever group that has the same interests as you. Though I like would personally like to see more equality amongst members of a group that play together. I have seen in many situations where seniority goes way too far and royally screw someone else out of something they deserved.

All the things you have said have counter issues with them as well.


Why should their be a seniority on loot? Because you ran something 300 times means you should get it before guy who has only had the opportunity to run it 4-5 times? I mean I would be mad that I didn't get it in 300 runs but if you are there participating in the battle and it drops you should have just as much right as anyone else to roll on said piece of gear. If you want seniority rule then use a point system. (though this is why I like how primal fights are, your lamp your loot rule)



People understand the reason behind this but someone shouldn't be forced to be a healer because they have it leveled every time. Then people expect you to get gear for the healer class and what if they want to play their DD? Their DD is considered their main but you assign them something different? How is that fair? People don't always want to play the same class every time especially if they leveled multiple classes. Because said person has better gear than you means they get to play that class over you!? Sorry that is an elitist mentality, now if a fight requires a certain gear level and the person doesn't have it on their DD job that is understandable and needs to be explained.



By them saying "I'm above it" they are clarifying they think elitist mentality is childlike
and unnecessary, in which that is the truth of the matter. The whole I'm better than you concept because of game status is nothing more than a teenage pissing contest. I agree with the "I'm above it" comment, they aren't saying they are better than anyone but instead that they are more mature than that. Also stating that the childlike behavior expressed by the elitist mentality in all totality is a hindrance and grow up quit acting like you are still in High School. (unless you are in high school then you are excused)

---

Your post is far to long for someone of my maturity level. So I am just on a reply with a blanket "I disagree with everything you may have said above, or will say in subsequent posts".

I tell you what, get your speed runs done, do em 300 more times. Then I'll read your post just like it is an actual informed opinion instead of hot air and from a tree hugging hippy that thinks that everyone deserves a trophy just for showing up.

Guys this went too far, seriously, internet is over, just shut it down, we all go home

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Destain

Yeah, the people who want their drops over the newb that's never done the runs before and is tagging along learning, they are the douches. The people that have trained multiple groups of people and geared them out only to have them stop running once they get what they want, they are the douches.

Please read the previous with heavy sarcasm.

IMO the douche is the new guy that demands same lot rights when they are just starting. The douche is the guy that cries elitist when they aren't allowed to lot on that less than 1% drop, even though they have been told everything else is fair game.

That's not elitism, u r idiot. That is people that value their fellow LS members time and dedication and feel they should be rewarded accordingly.

---

You are a Douch! And your entire post reeks of Elitism, just look at how you say "An item that has 1% chance" seriously man is a pixel, and at the end of the day in this game is not an upgrade, for you dont need any 1% drop gear to beat any boss or monster in this game, you can rape them all with craftables, this aint WoW or anything like that, at the end of the day, he helped as much as everybody else on getting the drop, then you ditch him in a curb and act like "Sorry scrub elites only, but you can have this fire cyrstals noob"

Too many linkshells end up having something like this happen. I have seen it pretty much in every LS I have been in. Luckily I am in a great LS now that is helpful and kind to one another and the leaders are not selfish pricks. It is rare to find a group like this, but if needed you could start your own linkshell to help prevent favoritism.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX

You are a Douch! And your entire post reeks of Elitism, just look at how you say "An item that has 1% chance" seriously man is a pixel, and at the end of the day in this game is not an upgrade, for you dont need any 1% drop gear to beat any boss or monster in this game, you can rape them all with craftables, this aint WoW or anything like that, at the end of the day, he helped as much as everybody else on getting the drop, then you ditch him in a curb and act like "Sorry scrub elites only, but you can have this fire cyrstals noob"

---

Your awfully presumptuous, you act like the newb is a victim. They have every chance to earn their place in an optional to join LS. What happens more often than not is people join linkshells to get what they want and then ditch. So if linkshells want to take measures to protect themselves who the f are you to judge? No one, a noob with an obvious chip on your shoulder. And yeah, game content can be beaten without these super rare "pixels". Not that you would know from experience. That doesn't mean in the structure of an LS that some shitty playing newb that is still learning the endgame/content of the game should deserve an equal shot at these trophies people have worked hundreds of hours towards obtaining. Get your head out of your ass. LS leaders have to do what the can to reward the most deserving members.

Personally I have everyone pick an item from each dungeon, if it drops and no one else picked it it goes direct to them. If someone else picked it the two players random. I block bodies, they go to the people that will use them most in LS events. That's not elitism. That's rationality above political correctness. You want a trophie for showing up! That is douchtastic.

/thread

Ostia just jelly bc he no have shiny lewtz.

lots of people getting their panties wet because their ls runs loot distribution in a way that doesn't encourage anyone new to join lol

-Grace period/Assessment period
--New members falls under same lotting rights as anyone else

Any other kind of system completely devalues the contribution from newer members, and doesn't encourage them to help at all.

You aren't owed anything because you showed up first, nor are you entitled to anything because you've been doing it longer. If a player has the DKP, or you allow to go into negative DKP or they meet the need requirements and they are a member of your linkshell, why would you not want them to get an item/roll on an item?

If you are worried about people getting items and leaving, that is a risk all linkshells take with any player, new or old. If you're worried about that, then let all the items you ever get drop to the floor.

Look guys, what is fair is not always equal. What is equal is not always fair.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tymora

Use a macro. Type it once and you're golden.
OR, if you're using windowed mode, write an essay on it in a NotePad and copy & paste it in.

---

you know how many macros you would need to explain Garuda in text, jesus its 2012 VOIP is common practice in MMOs and free for users to use and takes literally seconds to download. This is not directed at you specifically but people need to stop being so stubborn and expect to be able to participate in everything the game has to offer without having to conform to the norm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valmonte

Ive watched the vids and read strategy's for all the hamlets, but that's not good enough for folks they only want you if you've been and won. there in is the issue i can't go, because i've never been.

or to put it to you away my buddy did "I'm tired of being Cock Blocked by a bunch of Circle Jerk Fairies, who woke one morning and suddenly knew exactly what to do."

---

you should never expect anything less out of PUG groups find a good LS that cares about you the person and not just about what you bring to the group, but word of advice get your minor to 45 or dont expect to take anything other than PLD in there. Thats just the way it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krausus

you know how many macros you would need to explain Garuda in text, jesus its 2012 VOIP is common practice in MMOs and free for users to use and takes literally seconds to download. This is not directed at you specifically but people need to stop being so stubborn and expect to be able to participate in everything the game has to offer without having to conform to the norm.

---

I just want to expand on this.

In Seraphim we have a member who is mute. She still gets on to mumble to hear what is going on during events. Unless you are deaf, your reasons for not using a voip client as a pc user these days are asinine to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Griss

I just want to expand on this.

In Seraphim we have a member who is mute. She still gets on to mumble to hear what is going on during events. Unless you are deaf, your reasons for not using a voip client as a pc user these days are asinine to me.

---

They just want to do their own thing, which has no place in end-game. That's why for most folks it's no mumble, no end-game. At least in my LS. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between. There are a handful of players that you know need no instructions, but they are the exception rather than the norm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX

You are a Douch! And your entire post reeks of Elitism, just look at how you say "An item that has 1% chance" seriously man is a pixel, and at the end of the day in this game is not an upgrade, for you dont need any 1% drop gear to beat any boss or monster in this game, you can rape them all with craftables, this aint WoW or anything like that, at the end of the day, he helped as much as everybody else on getting the drop, then you ditch him in a curb and act like "Sorry scrub elites only, but you can have this fire cyrstals noob"

---

yeah I went ahead and put him on my ignore list :/ Funny thing is i was starting to actually think about this stuff after discussing it with my ls friends yesterday (I was kinda pissed after being called 'u r idiot' for disagreeing with 'seniority drop' :p), like how people get screwed by rng for a long time, blah, and about DKP and possibly implementing that once stuff gets off the ground for everybody. But after reading how he touts his '7 likes' (lol) and how he read my profile history, i now know he's just one of those too hardcore guys thats only interested in how he plays with his buddies or w/e and i'm ok with that. To the future! :D

i actually have to take up for destain. i've played with him and his group and they are actually quite friendly and fun to play with. after being in their runs and the way they distribute loot i enjoy running with them. let's give you the list of things they go by starting at the top and if nobody meets that it goes to secondary and so forth.

1. before the dungeon you are asked what's your main and secondary. once an item drops if it's your main you lot on it.
2. if an item drops and everyone with main has it the people with secondary lots on it.
3. once both main and secondary gets it then anyone else that plays those classes gets to lot if not main/secondary.
4. after this anyone that can equip the gear lots on the item.
5. it becomes free and people of any level get to lot.

they are not dkp, but it goes by what helps the party be more efficient. say heavy darklight body drops and you barely made the speed run time. who benefits the party and ls the most by getting the piece of gear? i'd say the tank since it will help shave some time off the next run and allow more speed runs. that helps everyone when it goes to the class that helps the group. it's selfish to think someone that can not help the party should get that drop and not be able to help the group/ls by having it.

i'm not suggesting that new people shouldn't be allowed to get loot, but i am suggesting that loot whores that want everything no matter if they can use it or not should not get items over people that can use it. i'm merely stating that a new player should have a main that they want to play so they can get that class geared first. if the new player states their main is tank even if they are playing on whm during the run it drops i feel they should be able to lot on and get the tanking gear. i just don't think someone that says their main is tank and their pld is 40 should get the tanking gear over a r50 tank that is the primary tank for the party.

is that elitism? some of you may say so, but i call it efficiency. are you going to get one class completely geared or every class geared first? once one class is geared it's not a problem to start gearing another, but i feel you should gear the class you enjoy most first where you benefit everyone in the group instead of grabbing at every piece that drops and hurting your fellow party members or ls mates.

i won't even lot on dd/tanking gear even though i have them at 50. why would i do that? i don't because the gear is not as useful to me as it is others that plays them consistently. by getting the right gear to the right person i am helping everyone, including me, to be better the next time we run content. if everyone that plays those classes then i will lot for it, but only after the people that benefit the party gets it first.

New rule and best rule ever, new members have to do 100 runs before before lotting! this should be instituted game wide!

P.S. I called you an idiot Amyas because you said what mine and many LS's do is douchey bull.. and that is idiotic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i actually have to take up for destain. i've played with him and his group and they are actually quite friendly and fun to play with. after being in their runs and the way they distribute loot i enjoy running with them. let's give you the list of things they go by starting at the top and if nobody meets that it goes to secondary and so forth.

1. before the dungeon you are asked what's your main and secondary. once an item drops if it's your main you lot on it.
2. if an item drops and everyone with main has it the people with secondary lots on it.
3. once both main and secondary gets it then anyone else that plays those classes gets to lot if not main/secondary.
4. after this anyone that can equip the gear lots on the item.
5. it becomes free and people of any level get to lot.

they are not dkp, but it goes by what helps the party be more efficient. say heavy darklight body drops and you barely made the speed run time. who benefits the party and ls the most by getting the piece of gear? i'd say the tank since it will help shave some time off the next run and allow more speed runs. that helps everyone when it goes to the class that helps the group. it's selfish to think someone that can not help the party should get that drop and not be able to help the group/ls by having it.

i'm not suggesting that new people shouldn't be allowed to get loot, but i am suggesting that loot whores that want everything no matter if they can use it or not should not get items over people that can use it. i'm merely stating that a new player should have a main that they want to play so they can get that class geared first. if the new player states their main is tank even if they are playing on whm during the run it drops i feel they should be able to lot on and get the tanking gear. i just don't think someone that says their main is tank and their pld is 40 should get the tanking gear over a r50 tank that is the primary tank for the party.

is that elitism? some of you may say so, but i call it efficiency. are you going to get one class completely geared or every class geared first? once one class is geared it's not a problem to start gearing another, but i feel you should gear the class you enjoy most first where you benefit everyone in the group instead of grabbing at every piece that drops and hurting your fellow party members or ls mates.

i won't even lot on dd/tanking gear even though i have them at 50. why would i do that? i don't because the gear is not as useful to me as it is others that plays them consistently. by getting the right gear to the right person i am helping everyone, including me, to be better the next time we run content. if everyone that plays those classes then i will lot for it, but only after the people that benefit the party gets it first.

---

Well maybe he should think before he says 'u r idiot' to someone who made a comment not even directed at him. From what it sounds like, its how i'd play. If I'm playing whm and i get a suit of DL armor of course i'll give it to the tank if he doesn't already have it. (have war too, so i'd be shooting myself in the foot, but hey, crafted stuff is better anyways :p)
But i just can't agree that just because a person has done it more, or has been there longer that they automatically get something that drops into my loot list. I'd rather throw it away than give it to someone that demanded it just for that reason, but of course there are like above circumstances where i may not be able to use it, or where multiple party members could use it, then i would have no problem /randoming it or giving it to the person that would use it exclusively.

time = entitlement, { I don't want it }, which was the basis of my first EDIT: in my previously positive first comment on this thread. well that and the other stuff some of the more serious (?) lses are doing. but the way you talk its the opposite, similiar to my line of thinking that the person who will use it more to help the group should get w/e drop; efficient.

tl;dr
I don't want stuff I can't use; i'll cede whatever to whoever can statically use it, but i won't stand for no 'that mine, u r noob' bs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amyas

Well maybe he should think before he says 'u r idiot' to someone who made a comment not even directed at him. From what it sounds like, its how i'd play. If I'm playing whm and i get a suit of DL armor of course i'll give it to the tank if he doesn't already have it. (have war too, so i'd be shooting myself in the foot, but hey, crafted stuff is better anyways :p)
But i just can't agree that just because a person has done it more, or has been there longer that they automatically get something that drops into my loot list. I'd rather throw it away than give it to someone that demanded it just for that reason, but of course there are like above circumstances where i may not be able to use it, or where multiple party members could use it, then i would have no problem /randoming it or giving it to the person that would use it exclusively.

time = entitlement, { I don't want it }, which was the basis of my first EDIT: in my previously positive first comment on this thread. well that and the other stuff some of the more serious (?) lses are doing. but the way you talk its the opposite, similiar to my line of thinking that the person who will use it more to help the group should get w/e drop; efficient.

tl;dr
I don't want stuff I can't use; i'll cede whatever to whoever can statically use it, but i won't stand for no 'that mine, u r noob' bs.

---

no i'm not saying time should get better reward. there's dkp shells for that, but i'm personally not in them.

what i am saying is that if you are mrd as your favorite class regardless if it's your first run or your 300th run then if both you and another person have it ranked to 50 you should both have an equal chance at it first if you both said that's your main class. you as mrd would be able to put it to use and help the party where me as a mage could equip it, but not help the party. if both you and the other mrd got it then there's no issue with others getting it, but i just have the opinion that getting the gear to the people that will improve the overall party helps everyone including me.

edit: i'm not in a dkp shell, but that doesn't mean i'm opposed to them. i just feel the applications should not just be about them getting to know you, but you getting to know the ls as well. if they use dkp(for example) and you don't want it then it's just not the ls you should be joining. if that's how they want to play it's up to that group and they aren't wrong for wanting it nor are you for not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

no i'm not saying time should get better reward..

---

Yeah i know you're not saying that, I agree 100% with ya, but it was the basis of the comments destain and I had between each other. . its just that my orginal comment on here, after i edited it to include my disdain (should have worded it better in my first post but..) for the foreigness of certain LS rules, was replied to by Destain with some sarcasm then a personal attack (rather than a well thought out conversation starter, it became one of many snarky forum /slaps that I, too am guilty of, sadly ;_; ), which automatically put me on the defensive and... then w/e. I know its just a forum, but I don't always have my emotional SS up all the time... Off OP topic as hell but i had to say it just to clear stuff up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amyas

Yeah i know you're not saying that, I agree 100% with ya, but it was the basis of the comments destain and I had between each other. . its just that my orginal comment on here, after i edited it to include my disdain (should have worded it better in my first post but..) for the foreigness of certain LS rules, was replied to by Destain with some sarcasm then a personal attack (rather than a well thought out conversation starter, it became one of many snarky forum /slaps that I, too am guilty of, sadly ;_;), which automatically put me on the defensive and... then w/e. I know its just a stupid forum, but to me it a gathering place of my peers that enjoy something as much as I do, and I don't always have my emotional SS up all the time... Off OP topic as hell but i had to say it just to clear shit up.

---

i know, but all i am saying is that they are mad because some ls's do that. that's why i say that's the one good thing about the application process. you get to know what they expect and how they are just as well as they get to know about you. if they do things they don't like(like in the op) then just leave them. they just have a different idea from them. it's not right or wrong, but is just different. no matter the amount of complaining and arguing over who is right neither side will convince them so it's just best to part ways and find a group they do agree with.

i just don't feel the op is wrong, but don't believe the ls is wrong either. they just don't agree on what they want. it just means they are not a good fit for each other.