Viera Changes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alahria

I'm devastated, personally. This is awful.
https://i.imgur.com/pN8JTWy.png

---

I decided to take some better screenshots and I think one of the issues with MViera face 4 is that the eyelashes change with the color of our hair now. Of course, the lip changes are very obvious. Sorry my screenshots aren't perfect side-by-side comparisons.

https://i.imgur.com/J2eHUoB.png
https://i.imgur.com/1IDUviN.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

How does it look in the actual DT benchmark? The lighting in the CC zones is pretty awful and casts a yellow light.

---

"green in all but very cool light". It's the same. Limsa-backdrop CC is where it's the most visible, but it's pretty much across the board unless the lighting is cool-tinted, including in the benchmark trailer. In the few daylit-lighting settings where they're not green, they lose a lot of the desaturation and grey undertone and become very tan, so even when the lighting is neutral rather than warmish, it's simply not the same skintone.

Anyway comparing CC to CC also allows for a fairer side-by-side, since it's the same pose and time of day, which is why I chose to do that instead of comparing live gameplay shots to benchmark cutscene shots given that the issue is omnipresent anyway. The only escape is to switch subraces, which comes with its own set of issues.

I'm not the biggest fan of how difficult it is to see the nose smudge. If others don't want it, they can turn it off, but i picked it because it pushed the bunny nose to be more prominent. Under certain lighting it might as well not be there... And for certain skin tones, they kinda look more like they're made of thick ballistic gel than skin u_u;;

I've even tried turning the gamma correction off

There it is
https://i.imgur.com/FSIrW2d.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/nj2Kfzl.png

Where did it gooooo - Also to the point of the skin tone lighting feeling a bit strange and more like an inorganic material
https://i.imgur.com/O9bXC4Z.png

Then on the darkest skin tone setting..... Er.. it does not look like it belongs there at all versus if it was say... like a Multiply layer
https://i.imgur.com/gieYtBO.png

it's an incredibly crude edit, but I dunno, it should just be way darker and not just... brown
https://i.imgur.com/g2uGzds.png

On current XIV, you dont lose the marking regardless of the lighting situation
https://i.imgur.com/EFmIxF1.png https://i.imgur.com/BYzqAHq.png

And the issues with the lips being super flattened and losing a lot of the shapeliness was already addressed in the posts above....

I wanna like the Benchmark changes more than I do but it feels more like I'm looking at a doppelganger who couldn't quite get it right and it's more uncanny than it is likeable ahaha.

Adding my voice to the mix of people unhappy with what the update did to their bunny. Light hair on pale skin seems to make eyebrows disappear entirely. The nose shading is too harsh and changes the apparent shape of the nose. And the pupil/iris changes to Veenas only emphasizes the wax doll/dead inside look.

While I took these screenshots in the character creator (for easier angle/lighting matching), running the character through the trailer does not fix any of these issues.

EW (left) | DT benchmark (right)
https://i.ibb.co/4VbBk8Q/ffxiv-04152024-113240-339.png

Your character is very similar to mine, maybe a little lighter in skin tone. The DT character creator has given the same ruination of the facial characteristics.
Basically, it's lost the life the current one portrays. The eyes look dead, with a zombie staring demeanour. The nose isn't a graphic update - it's just a different nose.
And the mouth has lost attractiveness, lacking the appearance of healthy texture.

Another face3 mviera victim here.
Beauty mark butchered, brows are paler, thinner, face shape is different, eyes perception changed due to the loss of veena irises, nose changes, lips. Skin tone is off in every environment. The overall feel of OC lost. I am devastated personally.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a4f49e96e9358&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...8a0a910eadf76&

Also I play on ps5 and had to ask my friends on pc to recreate my characters. I would have appreciated an option for console players to see the changes for themselves.

As I already said, easiest fix would be to drop out Viera graphical update and retain the original look for this one race.

In current game version, this race looks great compared to all older races, all faces looks perfect in my opinion and everyone I know is satisfied with how the Viera looks. They have this specific charm which is lost in DT benchmark tool.

Is there someone who thought Viera needed any graphical "uplift"? Whose great idea it was? :D

On the other hand, kudos to all that beautiful enviroments and water, game finally advancing into 21 century ... within engine limitations of course :)
Also some older races benefited from this rework. Hyurs, Lalas, miqotes looks great in the new graphics.
Of course, these was also affected with minor changes on face, mainly the lips.
But I guess lips will be fixed until release, it looks like a common bug across all races.

This Viera fiacso however - I can imagine many Viera mains will not be excited for DT, including me:rolleyes:
I dont think this will be fixed until DT release in 2 months, so best solution would be to exclude Vieras as a most negatively affected race from this update, or at least postpone it until devs squash all the bugs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sammywhatammy

I'm... I'm not going to lie. this is just a video game. but I'm kinda...devastated. I love my girl so much and she's just...not the same.

---

Same though! I feel the same way about my Rava boy; he looks like someone made a wax figure of him instead of it actually being him. He didn't look any better in the benchmark itself versus the CC

Some characters do look amazing in the update; I've seen some friends' characters come out beautifully! It seems to highly depend on the race + face you were using, though, because I do think viera got hit pretty hard. Especially male viera face 3:

https://imgur.com/amtJKGN.png

Same character data in both. The main points of issue, I think:

• eyebrows are smaller/thinner, and barely visible in some cases like here
• lips are much less defined and unique
• eyes are flat
• skin is oddly lit all over? looks luminescent, almost.

I'm sure a lot went into the update, but I do think it needs tweaking for viera.

Edited with an image from the benchmark cutscenes:
https://i.gyazo.com/5808aba5f1a01aed...d59d3b6e55.jpg

The eyes seem a lot better here than in the CC, at least! The issues with the eyebrows, lips, and lack of skin shading are still there, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RulerKelso

Easiest fix would be to drop out Viera graphical update and retain the original look for this one race.

In current game version, this race looks great compared to all older races, all faces looks perfect in my opinion and everyone I know is satisfied with how the Viera looks.

---

Sorry, no. I don't agree, and as you said: Everyone I know thinks the race looks better with the upgrade.

The issue with either of us saying that is that it doesn't really mean anything. Also, I could begin to tell you why the upgrade looks so much better to me, but I won't because I know for a fact I won't convince you.

That said, your suggestion of completely excluding Viera from the update is ludicrous.

Here's the solution: Compromise. We should have the upgrade. They should iterate based on feedback.

You'd be surprised at how amazing compromises can be when you have opposing arguments trying to meet in the middle.

I made an account on this forum just to talk about the impact of the new graphics. My multiple Viera looked soulless / depressed no matter what settings I tuned. Seeing them has crushed me.

Lashes – inconsistently lit and set. Light-haired characters have no matching lashes. I like that the lashes match but make them thicker + consistent, or give options to toggle on/off. The lashes are half-lit across the face, so I get half white on one side + black lashes on the other. Combined with dead eyes, this is particularly saddening.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...f49151dce41b3&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...170fd2a6989f6&

Skin - Skin translucency is shot. In the trailer and CC, they look oversmoothed / poorly lit. They also have no jawline aside from a faint shadow a lot. As an artist, I know jawlines don't look like this in these lighting sources. It was immediately noticeable when the characters moved. I'm glad that folks have shown how other games have fixed this issue.

Eyes + Face Shape – the dead fish eye look took the life out of my characters. Either put false catchlights back in or make sure that lighting is rendered properly across locations+sources. This made me want to cry b/c the light in my WoL's eyes reminds me of his strength. Face3 + Face4 have gotten hit hard. My main is F3. I'm echoing what others have said: face is too round, over-smooth, lower lips are too flat, and no angular features are left.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...5d64147103450&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...d000638d918dd&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1a9f9d8405c27&

Ears – The half-lop ears have the most trouble in + out of CC. You can see the glowstick look in the trailer's first few seconds. The bad transparenct is even more obvious when he's near the sun.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...5975ac32042a4&

Please consider changing this. Male Viera were an unexpected birthday present for me w/ EW. I'm giving this feedback out of love b/c I want to stay. I know you're still making improvements, so I remain hopeful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RulerKelso

As I already said, easiest fix would be to drop out Viera graphical update and retain the original look for this one race.

In current game version, this race looks great compared to all older races, all faces looks perfect in my opinion and everyone I know is satisfied with how the Viera looks. They have this specific charm which is lost in DT benchmark tool.

Is there someone who thought Viera needed any graphical "uplift"? Whose great idea it was? :D

On the other hand, kudos to all that beautiful enviroments and water, game finally advancing into 21 century ... within engine limitations of course :)
Also some older races benefited from this rework. Hyurs, Lalas, miqotes looks great in the new graphics.
Of course, these was also affected with minor changes on face, mainly the lips.
But I guess lips will be fixed until release, it looks like a common bug across all races.

This Viera fiacso however - I can imagine many Viera mains will not be excited for DT, including me:rolleyes:
I dont think this will be fixed until DT release in 2 months, so best solution would be to exclude Vieras as a most negatively affected race from this update, or at least postpone it until devs squash all the bugs.

---

They don't need to be excluded from the update, but they need more attention because the current iteration of these updates absolutely butchered male viera's appearance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

They don't need to be excluded from the update, but they need more attention because the current iteration of these updates absolutely butchered male viera's appearance.

---

https://media0.giphy.com/media/QMZpn...=200w.gif&ct=g
Here, compromise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Sorry, no. I don't agree, and as you said: Everyone I know thinks the race looks better with the upgrade.

The issue with either of us saying that is that it doesn't really mean anything. Also, I could begin to tell you why the upgrade looks so much better to me, but I won't because I know for a fact I won't convince you.

That said, your suggestion of completely excluding Viera from the update is ludicrous.

Here's the solution: Compromise. We should have the upgrade. They should iterate based on feedback.

You'd be surprised at how amazing compromises can be when you have opposing arguments trying to meet in the middle.

---

Sure, I respect your opinion :) But as I said, there is just not enough time to fix this. I see lots of glaring problems with new Viera appearance and DT is just around the corner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiaDeem

as you said: Everyone I know thinks the race looks better with the upgrade.

---

Well I did not know you and your opinion before, so now I know your thoughts on this matter.
You are probably one of the lucky ones, whom character was not devoid of its soul and sparkle. And Im glad for you. Have a nice evening ;)

the lips look AWFUL. they've completely lost their unique shape. his eyes look dead and the dark shadows over his eyelids are gone. his eyebrows look like they are several shades lighter even though i didn't touch anything. literally looks my viera saw a ghost or he is ill and about to cry/throw up

endwalker benchmark:
https://i.imgur.com/GUuv8xK.png

dawntrail benchmark:
https://i.imgur.com/bEvQLpH.png

i was so upset with the changes i had to search and see if other people were as well. the little bunny nose and dark shadow around the eyes is just completely gone. the shine to the hair and eyes as well. actually awful :(

https://i.imgur.com/sRUNzll.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RulerKelso

Well I did not know you and your opinion before, so now I know your thoughts on this matter.
You are probably one of the lucky ones, whom character was not devoid of its soul and sparkle. And Im glad for you. Have a nice evening ;)

---

I want everyone to be happier with their characters. Yesterday I mentioned I hoped they had given us access to the characters earlier to have more time to iterate. If they really made their characters easier to work on (part of why they wanted to do the update) I can only hope they can implement feedback-based changes sooner for everyone.

I rarely post on OF but I felt like there was a downgrade of my Face 2 M Viera's head as I feel like they flattened the lips and oddly changed the nose.

https://i.imgur.com/CZ3Yv8g.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/iSlwgqD.png

Also, even if there's no lipstick ...his lips just look oddly darker than normal. I can give or take the Viera nose since I tend to ignore it already.

TBH his entire expression reminds me if someone sanded down an egg since it just kinda looks too smooth even for a game character with anime-like art.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who thinks my viera looks odd, he was delicate before, now he's depressed
They really need to do something before the launch, I like the details of the iris in the eyes, but the rest is a mess
I agree with the vieras been the race that needs most adjustments before Dawntrail, not just male, the female too

<< 7.0-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------6.0>>
https://i.imgur.com/Aq9pPDg.png
ps: my computer is a little old, so the graphics my not be the best in both version, but is the only way i can play this game

Here's what I noticed going back and forth between the two. The nose also looks less rabbit-like since it's more rounded off and more human shaped.

https://imgur.com/MZUHPfT.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I want everyone to be happier with their characters. Yesterday I mentioned I hoped they had given us access to the characters earlier to have more time to iterate. If they really made their characters easier to work on (part of why they wanted to do the update) I can only hope they can implement feedback-based changes sooner for everyone.

---

Keeping my fingers crossed that 2 months is enough time to implement a reasonable amount of changes. I did not expect the raid tier of this expac to be the character creator (savage).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kogekigami

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...4f3b053ea0967&

Why has my viera been downgraded so much?

I had to change face completely to try and fix him which meant loosing his beauty mark which is sad. Can we not get some of the facial features like colour lashes, beauty marks and scars made universal across the faces if we are gonna have to make drastic changes to our characters like this?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...94b93ba79b687& Best I could do to fix him...

---

holy crap that looks like PS4 vs Switch version, buns look really flat in colour too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rugno

Keeping my fingers crossed that 2 months is enough time to implement a reasonable amount of changes. I did not expect the raid tier of this expac to be the character creator (savage).

---

Well... if memory serves, one reason for the update was to streamline the way the models were constructed within the engine to expedite stuff like Hroth/Viera hairstyles and our hats. I'm hoping that if this is true, that they can also iterate quickly on the characters based on feedback so the update pleases as many people as possible.

https://i.imgur.com/PD9QYCt.png

It feels dumb to be this upset over an update to a video game but man, I'm gutted. That's a completely different character.


- Eyebrows have pretty much been removed

- Eyes are very uncanny with inhumanly white sclera and a totally different iris color/pupil shape

- Skin is a different color, the cool undertone is completely gone

- Lips are overly defined and a different shape/color, he looks actively upset for some reason

- Makeup is toned way way down

- Hair has smooth textures with super rough edges and is a completely different color (black hair seems to be that gross washed out gray across the board though)


I'll be disappointed but not surprised if they force this update on us pretty much unchanged from its current state. It's so bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by moenbrydas

endwalker benchmark:
https://i.imgur.com/GUuv8xK.png

dawntrail benchmark:
https://i.imgur.com/bEvQLpH.png

---

showed my boyfriend these and he thought the ew picture was the updated textures... my manbun is also face 4 and the more I look at the benchmark the more the new eyes and lips feel like such a downgrade.

Square, please.

https://i.imgur.com/FEm6XzF.png

This is a race-specific and gender-specific hairstyle. Both this version and the swept-back fringe version have a gap between the hair and the side of the face, no matter which face style is chosen. Why?

After a bit I'm starting to get used to it? I got a lil lucky with the upgrade.
He still looks a bit flat/waxy/dead inside though and the lighting probably isn't helping with that, and that's after going through the settings to try and make it look better. My main problem is the ears, please fix the lightbulb ears :(
(also sorry if this post is wrong, first time posting I just want to throw my thoughts at SE)
https://imgur.com/a/MOZvB2U

Did they really use subsurface scattering for bunny ears?? LOL

The glowing ears seem to be a problem with the half-folded 'lop' ears. specifically; I haven't seen anyone with the upright ear styles making similar complaints. It feels probable this is one of the multiple texture problems present in the benchmark. (ie. One of the hairstyles that previously had black ear tips for male Mi'qote now shows the markings so faded, they're almost invisible. Lalafel, Roegadyn and Viera nose markings are also inconsistently applied with a similar-seeming issue.)

I usually just observe the forums but this graphical update pushed me to actually create a forum account to also voice my concern. I feel like this graphical update ripped all of the personality out of the viera and an *almost all* downgrade.

I was most concerned about the nose when the photos were first released. The lighting and the shadows on the nose just don't feel like they are working in harmony with each other and it just looks... bad? I also absolutely hate the eyes, I feel like there is something off about them. It is almost as if the graphic update erased the detail in the original eyes. The new face in general is just so off-putting in comparison to what it was before. I have seen some vieras look good with the change, but the majority look *very* different in the benchmark and not different in a good way.

I'm not here to complain, I just simply want to voice my concerns after noticing that so many others feel the same way. Even a small change to bring the personality back to the way that vieras looked before the benchmark would be amazing!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LaraWildstone

I also absolutely hate the eyes, I feel like there is something off about them. It is almost as if the graphic update erased the detail in the original eyes.

---

I'm pretty sure a lot of the weirdness with eyes can be blamed on removing the painted catchlights for the sake of "realism," which I guess means having no shine at all in most lighting conditions because the sun isn't blasting directly into your character's eyes. It looks very creepy.

Also adding in my hat to not quite being satisfied with what they did to the Veena Viera. I feel like their features have been a little too airbrushed into obscurity ( if that makes sense ) and the designs would benefit for a retouch of the fairly sharper, more pronounced lines we used to have to add more depth and dimension to their faces, primarily when it comes to their eyes. They used to look warmer, now I admit they look more like a blank doll. Which is to say, I too would love to have the catchlight back!

And although I doubt it'll make the Dawntrail release, I feel like we'd benefit so much if we could have the full color wheel at our disposal rather than simply selected colors that may come off as too dark or too light from how we actually want our Warriors of Light to look. If we could choose the exact shades we'd want, I feel like it'd help a lot in easing some of these grievances with them looking too muted with the new lighting/shadows, etc. That way the dev's could simply focus on trying to make sure the game lighting itself highlights everyone properly and fine-tune from there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lady_J

Also adding in my hat to not quite being satisfied with what they did to the Veena Viera. I feel like their features have been a little too airbrushed into obscurity ( if that makes sense ) and the designs would benefit for a retouch of the fairly sharper, more pronounced lines we used to have to add more depth and dimension to their faces, primarily when it comes to their eyes. They used to look warmer, now I admit they look more like a blank doll. Which is to say, I too would love to have the catchlight back!

---

Part of the reason Veena specifically look a little strange in the eyes is because their pupils are much smaller than they used to be. Although they are still larger than their Rava counterparts, I miss the Veena pupil we have right now. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Did they really use subsurface scattering for bunny ears?? LOL

---

They seem to be trying to!
(as they should! it's a nice detail!)
It just doesn't seem to be working properly :x

I got lucky my female bun looks about the same with more details on the eyes and hair. The male face 4 completely changed for lips, skin, and eyes. Honestly....looks dead with oily skin.

If you main Reaper job then now is the time to join Bun Boi because you look dead too

My male face 4 looks similar on the benchmark. That wax-like skin is painful to watch. I'm pretty sure the additional polygons caused this glossiness issue initially. The real solution is lighting on the texture.

When light hits the model and does not consider EVERY visible point in lighting the model, then you’re going to get unnatural looking lighting. Shaders are made to allow the devs to determine per pixel lighting conditions. So instead of seeing what appears to be a gloss or subdued lighting, in a literal sense EVERY point on the polygon is lit according to the texture and adjusted based on the lights and shadows reflecting on it.

Please fix the shader lighting on the textures! It doesn't matter in character creation or benchmark. It's the same underlying issue.

This is so sad Dx The world looks great. I do rather like the new whiter teeth and sclera personally, some of the sharper details in the eyes too but it’s absolutely a downgrade overall and I would take the previous look in a heartbeat. Viera males didn’t need to be touched. I have 4 endgame bunnies and they look so rough. Face 3s especially, which was an easy contender (winner imo) for most beautiful face in the game, now seems flat, depressed, and oily. I was really happy for DT but suddenly they look like they Seen Some Shit (tm) and need intensive therapy instead of being ready for their beach episode.

*First off it’s pretty mind blowing that the nose shadow isn’t a toggle. It makes their noses much rounder and wider.
*The missing lip shine should be brought back.
*Hair texture might be better but it’s very dull, black isn’t black enough and also needs the previous shine.
*I’m especially bothered about the missing catchlights (which they should’ve added more of not less??)
*And their beautiful lashes and eyebrows have completely vanished! I would’ve added even more lashes/liner, not taken it away lol
*Tattoo is lighter and wonky as well the beauty mark on face 3.
*The weird shadowing on the side of the lower face is atrocious and makes it look dirty.

Please, fix this.

And yes I joined the forums just to see if others felt the same and post here.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/ab4a7a0d...19e4015d11.pnj
https://64.media.tumblr.com/ab4a7a0d...951c6a5ba5.pnj

The link above is to the full-sized image.

I'm going to start by stating that I'm not too upset over the new lighting changes for him. He still looks roughly the same and I can fix them if this ends up being the end product. With that said, I would like to point out what I noticed based on the Endwalker and Dawntrail Benchmarks.

• Shadows are not as harsh in the update.
• Lips are matte and appear flat with a lack of shadows/light
• The scar is more embedded into the skin than embossed
• More light passes through the ears making them glow in certain lighting

I know eyelashes are also a problem, but it is still visible in different light environments. Also, the Limsa area tends to add a yellow/green light depending on the skin tone, while the Gridania area lacks light making the characters look flat.

Honestly, I think the dead eye look could be fixed if Viera kept the big white shine instead of the two/three tiny dots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kouren

Square, please.

https://i.imgur.com/FEm6XzF.png

This is a race-specific and gender-specific hairstyle. Both this version and the swept-back fringe version have a gap between the hair and the side of the face, no matter which face style is chosen. Why? It looks fine in the live environment; this is specific to the Dawntrail models.

---

Oh damn it. I posted in this thread yesterday and mentioned, among several problems, that my fem Viera's racial hairstyle also appeared to have gaps that aren't present in the live game.

My male Viera uses the same hairstyle as you, but I missed it on him... After seeing this, I'd honestly recommend everyone double-check their hairstyles--probably on other races, too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kouren

The glowing ears seem to be a problem with the half-folded 'lop' ears. specifically; I haven't seen anyone with the upright ear styles making similar complaints. It feels probable this is one of the multiple texture problems present in the benchmark. (ie. One of the hairstyles that previously had black ear tips for male Mi'qote now shows the markings so faded, they're almost invisible. Lalafel, Roegadyn and Viera nose markings are also inconsistently applied with a similar-seeming issue.)

---

Behold, upright glowing ears!
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ca04ed4fa6978&