Okay they weren't lying about the relic

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

Also just going to link the Everquest Magician relic quest for people that think they want a grind.
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/...html?quest=760

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I actually loved the EQ epic quests. I did several of them (especially Cleric) multiple times.

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Originally Posted by DisasterGayofCrisis

Please don't try to gaslight me. I even said, in this very thread, I enjoyed what I've done with Eureka and various other side content, I enjoy doing dungeons so even the ARR relic quests weren't a big deal. Again, I am still waiting to hear what is lost by not tying one specific thing to exploratory zones when there are still a ton of other rewards and reasons to play in these zones, so again what is lost? Why is the longer timesink the more reasonable choice for relics as opposed to just doing roulettes? Because again, the content isn't harder or more demanding in the way ultimates are, they're just more of a time sink.

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Late to this but since they aren't giving what you want:

1) You cannot pre-complete previous Relic Steps like you can with the 1,500 tomes. This meant that on release day you had new goals and objectives to complete and a motivation to stay in game with something to chase.

2) This game objectively has no end-game content for people that enjoy the MMO side of an MMORPG. It barely has content for the RPG side. Getting these few quests each couple patches means a lot for some of us who actually enjoy having an RPG in our MMORPG in which we feel like our character is progressing, and our goals are being neared.

3) It feels good to accomplish a task that took a lot of investment to complete, be it time or energy or skill. I have an attachment to every single other Relic in my armoire. Each one has memories attached to it, ones I farmed with friends, ones I farmed out of spite, ones I farmed with weird self-imposed challenged, ect. With this current relic it feels no different than opening a vendor window and buying a level 1 copper sword.

4) It is a RELIC weapon. They literally have their own rarity. They were, by design, intended to be a long time-intensive grind as their entire reason for existing. We already have Tome Weapons. With this current setup there is literally no reason for Relics to exist any longer and they may as well just delete them from the game as all it does is induce conflict between people who want everything handed to them instantly for free, and people who enjoy MMORPGs.

5) No one said it had to be tied to an exploratory zone, they just said that 1500 tomes was stupid and boring, which it is. There are a million cool things they could do, but saying "oh it used to be bad so this extreme overreaction change is perfect" is completely disconnected from reality.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Tome grind lets me play at MY pace in the content I choose, not the alternate route CBU3 decides to gatekeep the relics behind.

Result? I do roulettes to get my tomes and in doing so help other people with what they need.

If you saved tomes before or are no-lifing all of them in a week, you have no business complaining about how easy they are to get. That's on you. You chose to do that.

Bozja and Eureka can't be unsynced and they're largely dead content now.

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I played the game for less than 3 hours this month that the final relic tier dropped. I had enough tomes passively just for being online and helping a couple friends with some side content to purchase the relic on release day. That is not "no lifing" thats pathetic lmao

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Originally Posted by Orinori

I played the game for less than 3 hours this month that the final relic tier dropped. I had enough tomes passively just for being online and helping a couple friends with some side content to purchase the relic on release day. That is not "no lifing" thats pathetic lmao

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I really believe Yoship's biggest mistake was to advertise the game as "an MMO that respects your time" without specifying and elaborating for people with few brain cells, to a point which the AFKers distorted and twisted its meaning, taking this argument to a whole new level to a point where "respecting people's time" entails killing any endgame activity and variety of content.

Pretty much, the ones that are satisfied with EW's relic "progression" format, want the easiest way to get ALL of the rewards because otherwise, having just a little bit more fleshed out and varied system of relic progression would mean they wouldn't be able to get all 19 weapons as fast as possible, shortening the amount of time they want to basically go back into AFKing or not playing the game.

Newsflash for them, no one was putting a gun to their heads to grind all and every single relics back when the progression meant something, the game is not disrespecting your time by having a little bit more thought and depth to a content, you could still grind your relic at your pace. But to disregard everyone else that wants a bit more from the endgame casual/midcore scene for your own personal time is damaging to the game.

They wouldn't give two shits about relic grinding if the weapons was just a bland looking without any effect, they just want a flashy glam that requires zero brain cells to get.

Only in FFXIV there's such a community with a parcel that celebrates paying monthly to not play, other MMO companies and devs would have their heads on spikes by their playerbase for taking content depth away from its community.

This seems like mostly a fighting thread, but I'll add my feedback that I would prefer older-style, harder relics.

My ideal system looks like ARR books except the objectives are closer to those in Wondrous Tails.

I look forward to Dawntrail, and hope the new exploration content will satisfy the wants of endgame players!

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Originally Posted by Jargal

I really believe Yoship's biggest mistake was to advertise the game as "an MMO that respects your time" without specifying and elaborating for people with few brain cells, to a point which the AFKers distorted and twisted its meaning, taking this argument to a whole new level to a point where "respecting people's time" entails killing any endgame activity and variety of content.

Pretty much, the ones that are satisfied with EW's relic "progression" format, want the easiest way to get ALL of the rewards because otherwise, having just a little bit more fleshed out and varied system of relic progression would mean they wouldn't be able to get all 19 weapons as fast as possible, shortening the amount of time they want to basically go back into AFKing or not playing the game.

Newsflash for them, no one was putting a gun to their heads to grind all and every single relics back when the progression meant something, the game is not disrespecting your time by having a little bit more thought and depth to a content, you could still grind your relic at your pace. But to disregard everyone else that wants a bit more from the endgame casual/midcore scene for your own personal time is damaging to the game.

They wouldn't give two shits about relic grinding if the weapons was just a bland looking without any effect, they just want a flashy glam that requires zero brain cells to get.

Only in FFXIV there's such a community with a parcel that celebrates paying monthly to not play, other MMO companies and devs would have their heads on spikes by their playerbase for taking content depth away from its community.

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Its wild to see people finally speaking up when i called alot of this years ago and flamed relentlessly for it. Im just glad people are starting to wake up finally

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Originally Posted by Orinori

1) You cannot pre-complete previous Relic Steps like you can with the 1,500 tomes. This meant that on release day you had new goals and objectives to complete and a motivation to stay in game with something to chase.

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This pre-completion aspect is really the #1 disappointment for me and feels like such a fundamental design mistake.

Why do people insist on calling our additional tome weapon the relic? EW just didn't have a relic for some reason it's weird, I hope they fix it in DT.

Casual player: hehe

For a moment prior last step implementation, I thought they were going to 'surprise' us with something that's not just 'another 1,500 tomes lmao' because the Wondrous Tail a week prior specifically did not exclude the 2 liner 500 causality reward when they actually had done exactly that before Majestic step. Turns out it's just an extra normal trial with very unoriginal BGM. It's something at least... but not much.

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All of these just to appeal "people who bails as soon as the game demands something more nuanced/quits when not given reward soonafter" (as per Yoshi-P mentioned, paraphrased). Let that sink in.

Tbh I suspect the general reason for tomes based enchantments is that the relic itself is locked behind a 4 expansions long side story questline. Which most veteran players seem to not take into account, because majority of them played through it as it was released. Ivalice (which Bozja was locked behind), in comparison, wasn't nearly as long despite having three dungeons in it.

Now, if you're a new player who's just about to start it - yeah, looks like a bit of hussle. Not saying that only requesting tomestones was necessarily a right decision (variety never hurts, so I understand why current version is frustrating for some), but I can kind of see why they did it this way.

That said something also tells me that if DT relics will be grindy - we'll see the whining again, perhaps even more so than now. Possibly from the same people, too. Wouldn't be the first time it happens, so prepare the popcorn ig. /shrug

Next time SE should remove stats from weapons/armor so casuals won't complain about "wasting their precious time" playing a video game online.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Tbh I suspect the general reason for tomes based enchantments is that the relic itself is locked behind a 4 expansions long side story questline. Which most veteran players seem to not take into account, because majority of them played through it as it was released. Ivalice (which Bozja was locked behind), in comparison, wasn't nearly as long despite having three dungeons in it.

Now, if you're a new player who's just about to start it - yeah, looks like a bit of hussle. Not saying that only requesting tomestones was necessarily a right decision (variety never hurts, so I understand why current version is frustrating for some), but I can kind of see why they did it this way.

That said something also tells me that if DT relics will be grindy - we'll see the whining again, perhaps even more so than now. Possibly from the same people, too. Wouldn't be the first time it happens, so prepare the popcorn ig. /shrug

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I've thought of this too. I guess we will see in DT, as they can't use that as a reason anymore

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Tbh I suspect the general reason for tomes based enchantments is that the relic itself is locked behind a 4 expansions long side story questline. Which most veteran players seem to not take into account, because majority of them played through it as it was released. Ivalice (which Bozja was locked behind), in comparison, wasn't nearly as long despite having three dungeons in it.

Now, if you're a new player who's just about to start it - yeah, looks like a bit of hussle. Not saying that only requesting tomestones was necessarily a right decision (variety never hurts, so I understand why current version is frustrating for some), but I can kind of see why they did it this way.

That said something also tells me that if DT relics will be grindy - we'll see the whining again, perhaps even more so than now. Possibly from the same people, too. Wouldn't be the first time it happens, so prepare the popcorn ig. /shrug

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It very well could be a freelic again since their goal this time around seemed to be for people to complete many relics instead of just one or two.

I would be surprised if they didn’t go back to tying it to field content

VC had a terrible drop off in people doing it (SS-70% MR-40% AI-30% of capped playerbase) and struggled to entice anyone into it because of its terrible reward structure, Bozja meanwhile sat at 90% for SF, 70% for Zadnor, 50% for dalriada; it’s debatable how much of that was attributed to forced progression by the relics but the retention of progression through the content is much better and the relics would probably have a non zero impact on that

They are playing a dangerous game making field content without a core tenant like a relic to entice people in who don’t normally like field content, the other big thing they can easily include is fast levelling but I’m assuming if they are giving field content a 3rd(5th) shot they are going to tie whatever they need to it to make sure it doesn’t fail

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Originally Posted by Saraide

It very well could be a freelic again since their goal this time around seemed to be for people to complete many relics instead of just one or two.

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Originally Posted by Gullis

I've thought of this too. I guess we will see in DT, as they can't use that as a reason anymore

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Yeah.

There's also a matter of a lot of system-level upgrades they're doing for 7.0 (some of which were shown and some most likely were left in dark because it's not like they always show everything) - and while most of those aren't the battle content team, they're still resources, which also means budget and whatnot. So yeah, there's a bunch of things that could've played into their decision on making EW relic set the way they did.

With most of that technical work being behind them when DT comes by, there really shouldn't be any other reason to go with a similar approach anymore, so we'll see where it goes.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Tbh I suspect the general reason for tomes based enchantments is that the relic itself is locked behind a 4 expansions long side story questline. Which most veteran players seem to not take into account, because majority of them played through it as it was released. Ivalice (which Bozja was locked behind), in comparison, wasn't nearly as long despite having three dungeons in it.

Now, if you're a new player who's just about to start it - yeah, looks like a bit of hussle. Not saying that only requesting tomestones was necessarily a right decision (variety never hurts, so I understand why current version is frustrating for some), but I can kind of see why they did it this way.

That said something also tells me that if DT relics will be grindy - we'll see the whining again, perhaps even more so than now. Possibly from the same people, too. Wouldn't be the first time it happens, so prepare the popcorn ig. /shrug

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Honestly, I don't think the reason for the tome infestation is down to it being locked behind a 4-expansion spanning side-story, as in many respects the requirements for Bozja was just as long (Granted, Bozja is easy anyway) when you factor in how much you needed to sit through as well.

It would be enough to warrant making the initial step simple, but not subsequent steps. This to me just sounds like they wanted to streamline the whole process, regardless of what the unlock requirements were.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Honestly, I don't think the reason for the tome infestation is down to it being locked behind a 4-expansion spanning side-story, as in many respects the requirements for Bozja was just as long (Granted, Bozja is easy anyway) when you factor in how much you needed to sit through as well.

It would be enough to warrant making the initial step simple, but not subsequent steps. This to me just sounds like they wanted to streamline the whole process, regardless of what the unlock requirements were.

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It just being single tome purchases every step is I believe down to not wanting to have 10 or more various item drops like you had in shb. To save inventory space.

I blame FFXVI. It's clear that the development of FFXVI took a lot of dev time away from XIV. And while I will not be buying a PS5 to play it, I've heard only good things from sources I trust on such matters. So I'll give them a pass this one time.

This doesn't mean the relic content is good. It just means I'm not mad.

Whoever was in charge of relics this expansion thought it was a good idea to throw Tomestone at everything. As the community responds “This is boring”, I think they need to take a look back at Bozja and see what made it tic.

One-Time Quests were good, Tomestones were involved early on, you had variety, and most importantly you had alternatives to Bozja Field Content for Relic.

It’s important to have a variety to keep engagement, which they failed to do this expansion due to not tying the relic to Variant Dungeons. It would’ve made that content evergreen if they did, as you’d have people who do the relic engaging more with the new content instead of it being DoA.

Everytime someone dislikes something, SE should just simply remove it from the game. Wonder how long the game would last, lol.