Twitch streamers still blatantly cheating on stream.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

SE has never cared about third party tool usage as much as some people in this thread.

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This is why they are so upset.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

This is why they are so upset.

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Wild prediction based on the sheer hatred for aesthetic changes ITT: when 7.0 and/or the graphical update drops, people who don't have the hardware to run the updated visuals well will be up in arms about how much of an advantage the pores on the new character models unfairly advantages those players.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

Wild prediction based on the sheer hatred for aesthetic changes ITT: when 7.0 and/or the graphical update drops, people who don't have the hardware to run the updated visuals well will be up in arms about how much of an advantage the pores on the new character models unfairly advantages those players.

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Wild prediction - 7.0 Viera and Hrothgar still can't wear hats.
Other races still have this unfair advantage. Privileged hat users.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

Wild prediction - 7.0 Viera and Hrothgar still can't wear hats.

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You can't predict an inevitability.

Edit: Hard Mode: they can wear hats... But only in the "updated" mode. :^)

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

You can't predict an inevitability.

Edit: Hard Mode: they can wear hats... But only in the "updated" mode. :^)

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Plot twist - every other race could only use hats via preinstalled by SE mods all along.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

Plot twist - every other race could only use hats via preinstalled by SE mods all along.

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I knew it! Visible viera and Hroth hats come with a 10% DPS buff!

EDIT: Hit my daily post limit with saying the same thing over and over in slightly different ways, anyways re: the below:

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Originally Posted by Myrany

If you take the position that 3rd party addons are against the rules of the game then ANY use of 3rd party addons is cheating.

I personally feel that they are cheating because it is against the rules of the game and as such will not use them. That is MY choice and opinion.

That said I cannot know what someone is running on their computer unless they are stupid enough to broadcast it in video or talk about it in chat. It is a don't ask don't tell system. However if they harass someone with the addon you can bet I will report for harassment. Otherwise none of my business what they are running.

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All right, fine, let's do this then:

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Oxford: 1. act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.

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What advantage is being gained by having texture mods? Nobody has yet answered this.

I don't know how much more clearly I can put it... it is possible to simultaneously believe/agree/concede/acknowledge that all third-party mods/programs/applications/whatever are against Terms of Service (which I did, often and repeatedly), while also stating some are not cheating by definition.

Are texture mods against ToS? Yes. They are. I have never argued otherwise. Being against ToS != a cheat, though. Against the rules, yes. In violation of SE's terms, yes. Something that necessarily requires modification of the game in explicit opposition to the ToS, yes. BUT NOT A CHEAT.

Why is it so hard for people to concede this? Words matter. And people are adhering to this "mods are inherently cheats with no exceptions" position, presumably because it removes any need to accept that your black-and-white morality isn't a universal, objective truth before which all the evil, sinning mod-users must prostrate themselves. Sorry, I don't accept your false dilemma. I reject your position that cosmetic modifications are cheats, because you are seeking to end the debate in your favor by virtue of declaring victory on definitional grounds.

I don't have to smoke marijuana to opine on the morality or validity of the laws against it (whether pro- or anti-). However, neither do I become a wacky sovereign citizen who states laws are meaningless, nor an authoritarian nutjob who worships "the law" as an infallible thing that can never be changed. I say:

"yep, these are the rules as they stand, I for one obey them, but I can see why some people think they're silly",

or I say

"right now, the rules say the devil's lettuce is illegal, in accordance with my personal convictions... should they be changed, I will acknowledge that what was illegal is now legal."

Acknowledging existence of and abiding by current rulesets doesn't preclude discussion on whether such rules should be in place; conversely, being "on the right side of the rules" doesn't make your position infallible or above debate or discussion.

If you take the position that 3rd party addons are against the rules of the game then ANY use of 3rd party addons is cheating.

I personally feel that they are cheating because it is against the rules of the game and as such will not use them. That is MY choice and opinion.

That said I cannot know what someone is running on their computer unless they are stupid enough to broadcast it in video or talk about it in chat. It is a don't ask don't tell system. However if they harass someone with the addon you can bet I will report for harassment. Otherwise none of my business what they are running.

OMg he uses ACT o noooooo hes cheating!, he can see how bad i am at this game please ban them.

What a bunch of feebus cringe post, get better at the game ACTUALLY play the game worry about yourself and leave others alone. Just cringe.

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Originally Posted by Sinesters

OMg he uses ACT o noooooo hes cheating!, he can see how bad i am at this game please ban them.

What a bunch of feebus cringe post, get better at the game ACTUALLY play the game worry about yourself and leave others alone. Just cringe.

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isn't ACT a grey area though. like they know it exists but don't care if its used unless you are actively using it to go after players who might not have the numbers or underperforming

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

isn't ACT a grey area though. like they know it exists but don't care if its used unless you are actively using it to go after players who might not have the numbers or underperforming

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Officially there is no grey area. They've always been against 3rd party tools.
Unofficially people have their own opinions about what the dev team think, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter, they have to toe the Squenix line.

People like to think there's some kind of "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding stuff like ACT and visual mods, but the reality is they have no real way of tracing who is using them outside of the evidence people provide, be that a video, a stream, admitting it openly, or by disparaging party members for things you wouldn't be able to know without them.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

Wild prediction based on the sheer hatred for aesthetic changes ITT: when 7.0 and/or the graphical update drops, people who don't have the hardware to run the updated visuals well will be up in arms about how much of an advantage the pores on the new character models unfairly advantages those players.

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Pure hyperbole. Show me where someone claimed an add on with graphical enhancements gives players an advantage.

I’ve seen it said for cactbot and ACT. But nothing else. Blow some more hot air

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Pure hyperbole. Show me where someone claimed an add on with graphical enhancements gives players an advantage.

I’ve seen it said for cactbot and ACT. But nothing else. Blow some more hot air

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im curious on this myself lol.

If they were cheating, SE would have detected this.
So likely its just a mod or application that doesn't give them real benefits meaning its not cheating.

Personally think world 1sts and ranked pvp are really the only 2 big things where addons are the big NOPE, otherwise its really not that big of a deal/could care less... and judging by SEs actions or lack of, would say they have similar ideals...

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Show me where someone claimed an add on with graphical enhancements gives players an advantage.

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Minor:
Dalamud Plugin "Triple triad solver". One can argue this only works against NPCs.

Medium:
Dalamud Plugin "Shows where Bamboo falls.". This gives you an advantage against other players.
Dalamud Plugin "There are spaces where there is less overlap by potential AOEs". This gives you an advantage against other players.

Severe:
Dalamud Plugin "Showing exactly where to stand since 2020.". This gives you an advantage against other players while in combat.
Dalamud Plugin "A bunch of utilities to simplify bosses.". This gives you an advantage against other players while in combat. And if the entire group has it, everybody knows where to stand, move or look at all major duties, including Ultimates and Extremes.
ACT Custom Triggers: matches a text, triggers a text message, sound, or text to speech function. This gives you an advantage against other players while in combat.

Considering those are functions not available to non-PC players, as questionable or minor they are, they are giving an advantage to some players, so they are technically cheating. And I won't even go into the botting piece that, well, I've seen streamers doing pretty interesting rotations that have certain bot signatures.

They only ban people when they want to steal the mod and use it in game.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

What advantage is being gained by having texture mods? Nobody has yet answered this.

I don't know how much more clearly I can put it... it is possible to simultaneously believe/agree/concede/acknowledge that all third-party mods/programs/applications/whatever are against Terms of Service (which I did, often and repeatedly), while also stating some are not cheating by definition.

Are texture mods against ToS? Yes. They are. I have never argued otherwise. Being against ToS != a cheat, though. Against the rules, yes. In violation of SE's terms, yes. Something that necessarily requires modification of the game in explicit opposition to the ToS, yes. BUT NOT A CHEAT.

Why is it so hard for people to concede this? Words matter. And people are adhering to this "mods are inherently cheats with no exceptions" position, presumably because it removes any need to accept that your black-and-white morality isn't a universal, objective truth before which all the evil, sinning mod-users must prostrate themselves. Sorry, I don't accept your false dilemma. I reject your position that cosmetic modifications are cheats, because you are seeking to end the debate in your favor by virtue of declaring victory on definitional grounds.

I don't have to smoke marijuana to opine on the morality or validity of the laws against it (whether pro- or anti-). However, neither do I become a wacky sovereign citizen who states laws are meaningless, nor an authoritarian nutjob who worships "the law" as an infallible thing that can never be changed. I say:

"yep, these are the rules as they stand, I for one obey them, but I can see why some people think they're silly",

or I say

"right now, the rules say the devil's lettuce is illegal, in accordance with my personal convictions... should they be changed, I will acknowledge that what was illegal is now legal."

Acknowledging existence of and abiding by current rulesets doesn't preclude discussion on whether such rules should be in place; conversely, being "on the right side of the rules" doesn't make your position infallible or above debate or discussion.

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To answer your question about the texture mods being cheats. I would need to make a comparison from other game communities. I dabble in the speedrunning communities for other various retro games here and there. Lately I have been into the Randomizers and partake in some of the tournaments that a couple of them have set up. Texture Packs are flagged as cheating in both speedrunning and Randomizers because they can be created in ways that give a player an advantage. When I say texture packs, I don't necessarily mean shaders which aren't quite the same thing; but we still ban them regardless because of people's vague self-imposed definitions of them to circumvate the system. Some texture packs are made with quality-of-life gimmicks that make it easier to perform certain tricks. Lighter or darker markings on the floor or wall to indicate a safe spot for mechanics or when you want to jump for certain tricks. Sometimes they can fade dark rooms out or have lighter floor paths for areas where you aren't meant to be able to see where you're going. Which do give an unfair advantage to other runners. Now does this apply to FFXIV? Idk, texture packs for this game would have fundamentally different applications. But as far as we from the speedrun communities are concerned, a texture pack is a cheat yes.

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Originally Posted by HQuest

Minor:
Dalamud Plugin "Triple triad solver". One can argue this only works against NPCs.

Medium:
Dalamud Plugin "Shows where Bamboo falls.". This gives you an advantage against other players.
Dalamud Plugin "There are spaces where there is less overlap by potential AOEs". This gives you an advantage against other players.

Severe:
Dalamud Plugin "Showing exactly where to stand since 2020.". This gives you an advantage against other players while in combat.
Dalamud Plugin "A bunch of utilities to simplify bosses.". This gives you an advantage against other players while in combat. And if the entire group has it, everybody knows where to stand, move or look at all major duties, including Ultimates and Extremes.
ACT Custom Triggers: matches a text, triggers a text message, sound, or text to speech function. This gives you an advantage against other players while in combat.

Considering those are functions not available to non-PC players, as questionable or minor they are, they are giving an advantage to some players, so they are technically cheating. And I won't even go into the botting piece that, well, I've seen streamers doing pretty interesting rotations that have certain bot signatures.

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You're being disingenuous. You know they (and I for that matter) refer to cosmetic mods when one says "graphical enhancements". You're just fishing for a gotcha by going "heh well they ARE rendered into your screen therefore they're graphics checkmate XD"

Since you apparently have taken up the mantle of this debate over the person from yesterday, I'll ask you since I still haven't gotten an answer:

How does higher-resolution texture armor give a user a gameplay advantage?

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Originally Posted by Remish

To answer your question about the texture mods being cheats. I would need to make a comparison from other game communities. I dabble in the speedrunning communities for other various retro games here and there. Lately I have been into the Randomizers and partake in some of the tournaments that a couple of them have set up. Texture Packs are flagged as cheating in both speedrunning and Randomizers because they can be created in ways that give a player an advantage. When I say texture packs, I don't necessarily mean shaders which aren't quite the same thing; but we still ban them regardless because of people's vague self-imposed definitions of them to circumvate the system. Some texture packs are made with quality-of-life gimmicks that make it easier to perform certain tricks. Lighter or darker markings on the floor or wall to indicate a safe spot for mechanics or when you want to jump for certain tricks. Sometimes they can fade dark rooms out or have lighter floor paths for areas where you aren't meant to be able to see where you're going. Which do give an unfair advantage to other runners.Now does this apply to FFXIV? Idk, texture packs for this game would have fundamentally different applications. But as far as we from the speedrun communities are concerned, a texture pack is a cheat yes.

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All squares are rectangles; not all rectangles are squares.

Texture mods are banned in your speedrunning community because there exist texture mods that enable cheating. That doesn't mean texture modding, the act itself, is cheating.

Going from zero to sixty (pardon the pun) cuz I can't think of a better analogy ATM: if someone runs over someone with a car, that doesn't mean every car is designed or used to run over people. You can still detest the act that took place, but you're rightfully called disingenuous when you say "clearly this means everyone who drives a car means to run over people".

And you can't, say, drive your car on the sidewalk for risk of hitting people. Could some people do so without hitting anyone? Sure I guess...? But it's reasonably banned because there exists the possibility that someone doing so may cause harm.

Bringing this all back, texture modding CAN be harmless, in the case you gave, but because there is the possibility it can be used to hurt the competitive process, it is banned because of the malicious actors.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Pure hyperbole. Show me where someone claimed an add on with graphical enhancements gives players an advantage.

I’ve seen it said for cactbot and ACT. But nothing else. Blow some more hot air

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In fact, no one has yet refuted it, which is my issue.

You agree graphical enhancements don't give players an advantage? Then they are, by definition, not cheats.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

In fact, no one has yet refuted it, which is my issue.

You agree graphical enhancements don't give players an advantage? Then they are, by definition, not cheats.

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i believe when thats mentioned it means stuff like reshade.

We all know YoshiP is tired of it, world races gives the most visibility to him and people are just awkward at putting a video out there that would upset him. On the other hand it's kind of funny that the DSR world first with the timers on the party list made them implement it.

As for what started the ban hammers, it was the JP snitch crowd just poking through streams. You're more than free to report if you notice it.

Graphical enhancements is just too broad, even nVidia has a reshade like tool. It doesn't cause cheating behavior but there is an argument you are modifying their game and they could use that lever to ban if they really wanted to, just a lever with a lot of dust on it because there is bigger fish to fry. If there was any graphical "advantage" it would be your eyes in P3S since there was ways to have clear skies but that was like weeks after world first, out of YoshiP's eyes.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

i believe when thats mentioned it means stuff like reshade.

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No, there's a specific person in this thread (from yesterday at least) who declared ALL plugins are cheats. Period. For that matter, there's the person just above who cites that the fact that texmods are banned in their speedrunning community because some texmods exist that can be used to cheat exist, means that ALL texmods are cheats. My analogy remains, but to repeat it shorthand: the fact that something has the potential to be used for harm does not inherently mean that thing is harmful. *Edit: or to be more accurate, does not inherently mean that thing exists to cause harm. Anything can be harmful in sufficient quantities/improperly used etc.*

All I want is someone to say "you're right, some plugins are not cheats". And I'll say "and I agree with you that ALL plugins are against ToS, but I am glad you acknowledge that the word "cheat" is significant here".

I'm supposed to concede and give ground while they declare themselves victors. Nope. Not all plugins are cheats, simple as.

Edited edit: and in accordance with below, if Reshade is to what you refer: nope, that's not a "cheat" either.

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Originally Posted by technole

Graphical enhancements is just too broad, even nVidia has a reshade like tool. It doesn't cause cheating behavior but there is an argument you are modifying their game and they could use that lever to ban if they really wanted to, just a lever with a lot of dust on it because there is bigger fish to fry. If there was any graphical "advantage" it would be your eyes in P3S since there was ways to have clear skies but that was like weeks after world first, out of YoshiP's eyes.

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Saying "it's too broad" is a bit of an understatement. Even with shader suites, whether it be GeForce's or Reshade's or whatever, there's a marked difference between people who crank up the vibrance because they want their screen to look like a bag of Skittles, and people who use fog or tint removal.

And even then, it becomes ever-more-granular. Is removing a fog actually helping a person functionally at all? Is it showing them things that change their decision making process or something? Or is it just making them enjoy the experience more? We have to cross thoroughly into mind-reader territory at that point.

And and by then, you might as well make the ridiculous argument that "the fact you enjoy the visual presentation more is cheating because you're in a better state of mind!" or something equally asinine.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

No, there's a specific person in this thread (from yesterday at least) who declared ALL plugins are cheats. Period. For that matter, there's the person just above who cites that the fact that texmods are banned in their speedrunning community because some texmods exist that can be used to cheat exist, means that ALL texmods are cheats. My analogy remains, but to repeat it shorthand: the fact that something has the potential to be used for harm does not inherently mean that thing is harmful. *Edit: or to be more accurate, does not inherently mean that thing exists to cause harm. Anything can be harmful in sufficient quantities/improperly used etc.*

All I want is someone to say "you're right, some plugins are not cheats". And I'll say "and I agree with you that ALL plugins are against ToS, but I am glad you acknowledge that the word "cheat" is significant here".

I'm supposed to concede and give ground while they declare themselves victors. Nope. Not all plugins are cheats, simple as.

Edited edit: and in accordance with below, if Reshade is to what you refer: nope, that's not a "cheat" either.



Saying "it's too broad" is a bit of an understatement. Even with shader suites, whether it be GeForce's or Reshade's or whatever, there's a marked difference between people who crank up the vibrance because they want their screen to look like a bag of Skittles, and people who use fog or tint removal.

And even then, it becomes ever-more-granular. Is removing a fog actually helping a person functionally at all? Is it showing them things that change their decision making process or something? Or is it just making them enjoy the experience more? We have to cross thoroughly into mind-reader territory at that point.

And and by then, you might as well make the ridiculous argument that "the fact you enjoy the visual presentation more is cheating because you're in a better state of mind!" or something equally asinine.

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They are cheats. That's all I will say.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

They are cheats. That's all I will say.

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Well, you're wrong. But you're free to be so, that's your right.

Edit: because you folks are so petty, I'll specify: I interpret your statement as referring to "all plugins" when you use the pronoun "they", in which case my response stands. I know if I don't do so, you'll go "YOU'RE SAYING CACTBOT ISNT A CHEAT??!?!? GOT YOU!!!!" since what "they" means isn't defined here.

ill reiterate that i do not really care what other people do, how other people play a game they pay for doesnt affect me.

the only people that who and should care is Square, whatever they do is on them.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

Well, you're wrong. But you're free to be so, that's your right.

Edit: because you folks are so petty, I'll specify: I interpret your statement as referring to "all plugins" when you use the pronoun "they", in which case my response stands. I know if I don't do so, you'll go "YOU'RE SAYING CACTBOT ISNT A CHEAT??!?!? GOT YOU!!!!" since what "they" means isn't defined here.

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You're being overly sensitive about a silly topic. You should probably walk away from the thread a little bit and relax. You seem offended not everyone sees things the way you do.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

You're being overly sensitive about a silly topic. You should probably walk away from the thread a little bit and relax. You seem offended not everyone sees things the way you do.

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https://twitter.com/reactjpg/status/...z4775oyXA&s=19

Haha also just noticed, brand new account. Decided THIS thread, of all threads on the forum, was the place to step in as the "voice of reason". Right as suddenly opposition to my points stops.

Sealion/sockpuppet harder. You're just pathetic at this point.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

https://twitter.com/reactjpg/status/...z4775oyXA&s=19

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look i get your point. some stuff like reshade and textools isn't as they don't mess with the game directly but there are lots (specifically in the dalamud quick launcher) that are outright cheats in this game as they do mess with the game. That is what square is really after. I think they know about the character modding community but don't care because its not modifying in game to give an advantage over other players. whereas the james webb telescope mod gave a clear advantage.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

look i get your point. some stuff like reshade and textools isn't as they don't mess with the game directly but there are lots (specifically in the dalamud quick launcher) that are outright cheats in this game as they do mess with the game. That is what square is really after. I think they know about the character modding community but don't care because its not modifying in game to give an advantage over other players. whereas the james webb telescope mod gave a clear advantage.

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"Some mods are cheats"

Yes. I agree. I concur. I have said this over the past two days in this thread. I have never said otherwise.

Third party tools/plugins are against ToS BECAUSE these mods exist. Yes. Agreed.

What exactly are you trying to prove to or debate with me? That some plugins are cheats? I've never argued this wasn't the case. Not once. You've already won that argument I guess?

And it's not "some plugins AREN'T cheats" because... Well, you say so.

Tldr I literally wasn't talking to/about you, just the black/white moralists who just can't say "[their] general statement was incorrect". And so long as people like that exist in the community (and in gaming as a whole), there is a problem, because their rigidity stifles games being anything other than cookie cutter shite made for the lowest common denominator with the minimum user freedom possible.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

"Some mods are cheats"

Yes. I agree. I concur. I have said this over the past two days in this thread. I have never said otherwise.

Third party tools/plugins are against ToS BECAUSE these mods exist. Yes. Agreed.

What exactly are you trying to prove to or debate with me? That some plugins are cheats? I've never argued this wasn't the case. Not once. You've already won that argument I guess?

And it's not "some plugins AREN'T cheats" because... Well, you say so.

Tldr I literally wasn't talking to/about you, just the black/white moralists who just can't say "[their] general statement was incorrect". And so long as people like that exist in the community (and in gaming as a whole), there is a problem, because their rigidity stifles games being anything other than cookie cutter shite made for the lowest common denominator with the minimum user freedom possible.

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this is like second time ive actually replied to you. so are you the one perhaps out to make a point or argue with people. as for your Tldr....gamers aren't the ones programming the game. that onus is on the company and to be honest. Most games that come out these days are unfinished pieces of meow that shouldn't have even been released in the first place. that doesn't excuse the players from using cheats but you have to ask yourself in the first place as to why they are using them. the answer in this game is simple. some of them are actually used to make gameplay for those people more manageable or what should have been quality of life stuff the devs should have put in in the first place. I mean they tend to add certain ones now so i think some mods are quality of life to make stuff a bit easier. on the flip side as i said, theres lots that are just outright cheats.

end of this all there is a saying i want you to heed. its a great one "opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one". you remember this and you will be much happier and realize how true this is.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

In fact, no one has yet refuted it, which is my issue.

You agree graphical enhancements don't give players an advantage? Then they are, by definition, not cheats.

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I agree. Still against the ToS. But definitely not cheating.

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Originally Posted by HQuest

Minor:
Dalamud Plugin "Triple triad solver". One can argue this only works against NPCs.

Medium:
Dalamud Plugin "Shows where Bamboo falls.". This gives you an advantage against other players.
Dalamud Plugin "There are spaces where there is less overlap by potential AOEs". This gives you an advantage against other players.

Severe:
Dalamud Plugin "Showing exactly where to stand since 2020.". This gives you an advantage against other players while in combat.
Dalamud Plugin "A bunch of utilities to simplify bosses.". This gives you an advantage against other players while in combat. And if the entire group has it, everybody knows where to stand, move or look at all major duties, including Ultimates and Extremes.
ACT Custom Triggers: matches a text, triggers a text message, sound, or text to speech function. This gives you an advantage against other players while in combat.

Considering those are functions not available to non-PC players, as questionable or minor they are, they are giving an advantage to some players, so they are technically cheating. And I won't even go into the botting piece that, well, I've seen streamers doing pretty interesting rotations that have certain bot signatures.

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Obviously you didn’t comprehend “graphical enhancements”. Things you described give advantages

I think the thing that gets people is too many of you are hung up on the "cheating" aspect, as some form of moral argument.

Unfortunatly, none of that really matters. Maybe yoshi cares, but not square. All they care about is publicity and anything that might hurt buisness, sometimes those intersect, but not always.

They say all mods are against tos as that blanket statment makes it easier than pick and choose what new plugin or mod of the day is ok for third party use.

"cheating" for world first with zoom is JUST AS BAD as the big tiddie horny mods you see, there is no tierlest or heiarchy of what is ok and what isnt, there all against tos because its bad publicity (in the case of the second, can get them in trouble with regulators since this is technically not a M game. )

Hence: theres no point in caring what other people do. And my general recomendation is to not have loose lips. This is squares issue, let them handle.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

I think the thing that gets people is too many of you are hung up on the "cheating" aspect, as some form of moral argument.

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Almost, but not for the reason you might think. Or perhaps just what other ardent anti-mod people think.

My hangup is that it is being used as a cudgel to tell people "oh you only want mods because you wanna cheat!" It\\'s reductionist as hell. Some people might want modded content because they intend solely to use it for cosmetic reasons. Yet to hear the opposition to this desire, every single such person is secretly cheating scum who just wants to trojan horse in unfair gameplay mods under the guise of "wanting the game to look prettier."

No, dude. Some people literally and exclusively just want the game to look prettier.

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Unfortunatly, none of that really matters. Maybe yoshi cares, but not square. All they care about is publicity and anything that might hurt buisness, sometimes those intersect, but not always.

They say all mods are against tos as that blanket statment makes it easier than pick and choose what new plugin or mod of the day is ok for third party use.

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This is true, but one can still lobby for consideration of something allowing for certain, objectively-not-cheat mods in an official capacity.

Wanting an extra window that tells you where certain mobs spawn is just being petty at something that has literally no bearing on you. As well tell people with 3080s they MUST sell them and downgrade to [whatever the equivalent to get PS4-level graphics would be] cuz they have something someone doesn't!

And no, for the umpteenth time, this doesn't mean I endorse or support things adding in automated functions not otherwise available. I could browse the wiki and look up that mob's spawn and write it down in a physical notebook - I can NOT automatically place down markers throughout a Raid and make callouts for mechanics the moment they happen. One is within my abilities, be it physical or digital, one is not.

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"cheating" for world first with zoom is JUST AS BAD as the big tiddie horny mods you see, there is no tierlest or heiarchy of what is ok and what isnt, there all against tos because its bad publicity (in the case of the second, can get them in trouble with regulators since this is technically not a M game. )

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No, dude, it really isn't. It's just as against ToS, by virtue of ToS forbidding ALL modifications, but there is not an equivalence between a thing that allows a player (or players) to get something OTHERS DON'T (being the first is definitionally a limited-supply thing that must be completed for), and someone seeing big boobies where someone else doesn't. One is a competition. One is not. One is cheating. One is not. "Having something someone else doesn't" is not inherently cheating, again otherwise my PC is me cheating vs someone at minimum requirements.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Obviously you didn’t comprehend “graphical enhancements”. Things you described give advantages

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I think in P3(S) some users were using graphical mods to desaturate the arena so that aoes weren't bright orange on bright orange and that is technical giving an advantage as it could be interpreted that the... difficult visual design is part of the challenge. Similar to how not being able to zoom out further is part of the challenge in TOP I guess. I'm not taking sides, it was just an example that came to mind.

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Originally Posted by Frodnoxx

I think in P3(S) some users were using graphical mods to desaturate the arena so that aoes weren't bright orange on bright orange and that is technical giving an advantage as it could be interpreted that the... difficult visual design is part of the challenge. Similar to how not being able to zoom out further is part of the challenge in TOP I guess. I'm not taking sides, it was just an example that came to mind.

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But that's where the witch hunting utterly fails. I get that you're just inputting data, but I'm gonna address it since it's here, this isn't at you but at the "muh cheating" folks here:

What if I changed the color temperature via my monitor settings? That can achieve the same result. Do you declare it "cheating"? What, because I don't have hardware homogeneity with everyone else?

Hope literally NO ONE saying this is "cheating" has anything more than the minimum requirements. Otherwise, YOU'RE the filthy cheater.

How do you justify yourself, cheaters? Paying to win over less-wealthy SE customers, shame on you.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Obviously you didn’t comprehend “graphical enhancements”. Things you described give advantages

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While I do not know if this can or cannot be made within FFXIV, I will refer to an old event that I have seen and felt first hand:

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/wo.../1100-6160983/

The “mod” was a single file containing a replacement texture. This texture matched the game texture and replaced a 320x320px wall by a 1x1px version of it, allowing us to freely jump down into last instance boss and skip the full crapton of trash mobs.

Can graphical enhancements give players an advantage? Maybe. It does not make sense, though, since the way fights in FF are designed. Is it possible? Yes. See above. Can those be considered cheating? Questionable. Is it against game’s Terms of Use? Yes. Are they legal? If against ToU, I wouldn’t classify them as legal.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

But that's where the witch hunting utterly fails. I get that you're just inputting data, but I'm gonna address it since it's here, this isn't at you but at the "muh cheating" folks here:

What if I changed the color temperature via my monitor settings? That can achieve the same result. Do you declare it "cheating"? What, because I don't have hardware homogeneity with everyone else?

Hope literally NO ONE saying this is "cheating" has anything more than the minimum requirements. Otherwise, YOU'RE the filthy cheater.

How do you justify yourself, cheaters? Paying to win over less-wealthy SE customers, shame on you.

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Using this same logic, anyone with a programmable keyboard or mouse (Logitech/Razer) can use their apps to record macros, put them into repeat mode and go do something else while your char farms isle sanctuary level points, or craft items until you run out of materials/shards.

This reminds me of an YouTuber that went play a mobile FPS game, using a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard. He was just unbeatable.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

No, dude, it really isn't. It's just as against ToS, by virtue of ToS forbidding ALL modifications, but there is not an equivalence between a thing that allows a player (or players) to get something OTHERS DON'T (being the first is definitionally a limited-supply thing that must be completed for), and someone seeing big boobies where someone else doesn't. One is a competition. One is not. One is cheating. One is not. "Having something someone else doesn't" is not inherently cheating, again otherwise my PC is me cheating vs someone at minimum requirements.

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modifications in any regard to the game , even to look pretty, better textures, or different assets is still TOS.

Even if other people "cant see in game". No other player can really see what plugins or mods ou use, they can however, see if you post pictures or vids elsewhere. Modified characters, in certain scenarios and situations, especially the illicit variety, can cause issues for SE. This can either be either false advertisment of the games content, something that can get them in toruble, or if the actions in questions are.....somewhat extreme, get them in a looooot of trouble. Bad (rather, unwanted) publicity.

cheating is rather meaningless in this discusion, world race doesnt matter in any official capacity. The ones that did "cheat" caused a community uproar. This caused bad, bad publicity from publications. This is not acceptable.

And the cheating that /does/ matter (pvp) does have the team look at when able, its somewhat obvious to onlookers, but you need definitive evidence to get someone.

"Shaders" like the one nvidia offers, is a alteration to your system, not the game files or working. This isnt agasinst tos, no more so than me getting a wide monitor.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

They are cheats. That's all I will say.

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I agree, they all are cheats. It's intentionally not what the devs intended for their game.