I'm mentally 4 years old. I pogged when the Grebuloffs got their home back.
This was all worth it.
Thank you, Devs. I finally got closure after my many runs in The Dead Ends and feeling bad for the little cute otter people.
A game for 4 year olds
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11-01-2022, 05:04 PMShinyChariot
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11-01-2022, 05:23 PMKageTokage
That dragon questioning if maybe he'd get to see Etheriys some day makes me wonder if we could just ferry the Ultima Thule folks over via the Ragnarok if it was needed for whatever reason...though I also question how safe it is to be maintaining a direct connection to the place to begin with.
It also makes me wonder if they might bother having an allied tribal quest again and get them involved...somehow. -
11-01-2022, 07:07 PMAlleoLets revel in our childishness together. I was so happy to see them running around their new old homes and splashing in the water. Everytime I have to collect another set of them in different places I am like "aww you are just too cute". I laugh at Stigma-4s humor and I am happy that now after the newest rank up the dragons do want to come to the cafe if you ask them in a side quest.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyChariot
I also love that both the dragons and the Ea bascially can now become parents. One couple of Ea sitting down watching their new creation and wondering what they should give them to eat. And one answering that on our planet people like Pudding.
If all that makes me a 4 year old then I am fine with that. At least I can still feel the wonder of such a place. -
11-01-2022, 08:26 PMJeanneOrnitier
I don't think there's a clone Gabranth or anything, I think he just faked his death with Lyon's help. The reports made a point to say that both nobody had ever seen him without his helmet before, and that the corpse was too burned to be properly identified. The only way it could be more clearly saying it wasn't actually his body is if it just outright said that.
And since nothing in Bozja really impacted Dalmasca, if we get a Dalmasca story they could easily not require people do Bozja by just saying "we thought Gabranth died". -
11-01-2022, 09:56 PMShinyChariotI'm one of the opinion that Endwaker writing was a mess, but I'm not looking to watch a Chris Nolan or Bong Jun-Ho movie, just put enough cool and sweet things in there to trigger my neurons and I'll be happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleo
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11-01-2022, 10:51 PMaveyond-dreamsDoes anyone else get weird vibes from this post? The offputting nature of it aside, I'm thankful that other fantasy games don't cater to whatever this sort of player is supposed to be. Uncomfortable is only one of many words I could use to describe this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleo
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11-02-2022, 12:02 AMsidurgu-12...No? Just reads like an appreciation post with a lighthearted poke at the topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
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11-02-2022, 01:01 AMDPZ2The vibes here are no weirder than your posted attempt at fan fiction to rewrite Endwalker to your tastes.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
I actually thought the poster you were replying to was being facetious, to be honest, not creepy. -
11-02-2022, 02:16 AMAlleoOff putting because I simply find our otter friends cute and that I am happy that the dragons and Ea got children?Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
Now I have read it all.
And yes the part about being childish is a poke at the topic because seemingly all those of us who like the beast tribe (which would be a lot of people according to the forum, reddit and youtube) are called 4 year old by people like the OP. The rest of the post are stuff that happens in the quests. Of course one only knows that if they have done them.
Edit: If there are so many fantasy games out there who dont cater to someone offputting like me why are you still here? Why are you still paying and talking about a story that is for children? I at least enjoy these quests, what is your reason? -
11-02-2022, 02:20 AMKazemon15Oh sweetie, when you grow up, you will learn to how to read between the lines of posts. And also when you grow up, learn to know that liking something that is lighthearted and even a bit "childish" doesn't erase the fact you can also like grim and dark things as well. Us adults can enjoy both, you see.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
Edit:
His reason is he "claims" he loved the game before but Endwalker erased EVERYTHING that was good about it so he wants to post and get the writers "back on track" to what the "TRUE MEANING/THEMES of this game should be", according to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleo
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11-02-2022, 08:43 AMMoomba33
It is pretty silly how quickly the despair of each civilization is successfully countered by a meal. But at the end of the day SE is choosing to resolve multiple threads in one sidequest series which will necessitate each one getting less attention than a main arc of the game. As much as I may personally be interested in Heavensward 2: Dragons versus Omicrons the writers aren't wrong for wanting to focus on other things.
As for the overall tone, I'm enjoying the comedy. I'm not familiar with the work of Douglas Adams but even without getting the references I'm finding the characters and writing entertaining.
Not really related to the story itself, but I really like the Grebuloff home area. It reminds me of the City of the Ancients in FFVII. -
11-02-2022, 09:00 AMRyuDragnier
Correction, the despair of individuals. The entire civilization isn't fine and dandy after that meal, but individuals start to feel better.
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11-02-2022, 03:56 PMCleretic
And it's also clearly not that sharing that food fully heals them, it just helps them over that initial hump.
The Karellians are obviously still harboring a lot of animosity even if they're past open hostilities.
The Grebuloffs probably have the most notable immediate improvement, possibly because their despair came from a very sudden development rather than a slow burn, but there's still a morose feel about most of them.
It's kinda hard to read how much the Ea have improved, even though they have, but they also have the most dramatic changes with both re-learning lost experiences and caring for the jellyfish.
And the dragons have barely cheered up at all, although they're clearly looking at things a little less bleakly now.
Incidentally: I hope we get the Karellians' uniform as a reward from all this, I love that thing. -
11-02-2022, 05:04 PMEnkidohWhich one? The Global Community soldiers or the Freedom Fighters? (although I guess both were fundamentally the same design, just the 'tron lines' and helmet colour was different).Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleretic
Also, they're actually palette swaps of old FFXIII enemies (PSICOM Corps Gunners), so there is that. -
11-02-2022, 05:54 PMaveyond-dreams
I am shocked to discover some of you know of or have potentially even played FFXIII. With the mother of one of the playable characters dying halfway through the intro I would have certainly written it off as too dark for the current FFXIV playerbase, who has been enthralled by the likes of Ameliance. Instead of dying in heroic sacrifice, she bibbity boppity boos an outfit for Alphinaud and Alisae and sticks around long enough for players to defile her by dressing her up in bikinis at best and the NieR outfit at worst.
Hope’s depiction of grappling with actual loss in that game was criticized at the time, but was still leagues better than the messaging of Endwalker which would’ve told him to get over it forge ahead without a care, forgiving Snow over burgers and doing away with most of his arc. Leaving nothing that could be called a compelling story left. -
11-02-2022, 06:10 PMClereticDoes anyone else get weird vibes from this post? The off-putting nature of it aside, I'm thankful that other fantasy games don't cater to whatever this sort of player is supposed to be. Uncomfortable is only one of many words I could use to describe this.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
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11-02-2022, 06:23 PMaveyond-dreamsThe majority of fantasy games do in fact contain the death of significant party members and/or people close to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleretic
FFII - numerous temporary party members and side characters on the side of the Flynn Rebellion
FFIV - Anna, Tellah, Rydia's mother, with numerous "fakeouts" only being reversed after a lot of time has passed rather than after 30 minutes of Ultima Thule feels rollercoasters.
FFV - the death of King Tycoon, Galuf, and both of Bartz's parents which happened prior to the game but were still addressed in the story.
FFVI - the death of Cid and Celes eventually losing hope and her (failed) suicide attempt is in fact the canon way in which those events are supposed to play out, with the fish minigame being designed to be intentionally obscure. Blasphemy time!
FFVII - Aerith, etc.
FFIX - the death of Queen Brahne and how it impacted Garnet/Dagger. Blasphemy time! The death of Vivi, etc.
FFX - Tidus, prior to the option to revive him in FFX-2 before no doubt Mikko will try and write a whole other essay about how at the time it was canon that he was going to come back to life!! It wasn't. And anyone who tries to claim that it was is similarly disingenuous.
FFXV - the death of King Regis and eventually, Noctis. Not to mention Ignis going blind in a sacrificial attempt to protect Noctis after Luna was murdered by Ardyn.
FFXVI - the death of the Archduke of Rosaria, robbing Clive and Joshua of their father.
Dragon Age series - needs no explanation.
Fire Emblem series - again, needs no explanation across its various games though I specifically have 3 Houses in mind.
Bayonetta 3 - :)
Stranger of Paradise - the death of Astos, Sarah and the royal family, and the rest of the main party before they are transformed into the elemental fiends.
I could go on, but the ego stroking combined with recent push for overly-kiddified content is definitely a FFXIV exclusive thing. Everything thrown away for a power fantasy where the good guys have had near constant wins as of late while suffering no permanent consequences.
Your pathetic attempt to one-up me has failed. FFXIV players have been pandered to in such a strange way in EW that I truly do not think that anyone who seriously subscribes to this sort of messaging will be able to cope with any real life loss in a healthy way. Rather than showing what to actually do and how to realistically handle death and permanent physical disability, everything just gets waived away under the nonsensical banner of hope "triumphing" over despair. There's no dynamis to save people in real life when things go south.
And yeah, full grown adults who are into this sort of weird kiddie nonsense are offputting individuals who I actively want nothing to do with and want to fully exclude from the spaces I inhabit both in real life and online. I do not believe that sort of player should have ever been catered to from the addition of Lalafells instead of a more dwarf-like race to the mess we have on our hands with the Loporrits and other meme beastmen. -
11-02-2022, 08:20 PMClereticOh, I don't one-up. I was mostly just treating you like the joke you are, but if you insist, yeah, I'll pick apart the argument you think you have. And I say 'think', because your argument doesn't even make enough sense to have a single consistent point, and requires deliberate ignorance of not just FFXIV, but also pretty much every single other game you just mentioned. I can derive three possible arguments, but none of them really make sense. (I warn you all; this one's gonna get long.)Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
First: Perhaps you think that Endwalker was bloodless, and all 'good' fantasy games require meaningful character death to change the journeys of the living. To a degree, this almost sniffs at making sense; Endwalker is essentially the 'Disc 5 of 5' end stretch of a single long-running RPG, most of the core cast has already had their major character development moments--a significant number of which, it turns out, were the result of meaningful character deaths (Minfilia, Haurchefaunt, Papalymo, Moenbryda, Louisoix, Ysayle, even Emet-Selch... Endwalker has a whole dungeon shouting out who we've lost, I recommend it, it's good). Most of Endwalker's character development went to supporting characters and antagonists, as is usually the case in that final stretch of an RPG; Fourchenault, Zenos, Fandaniel (in weird, non-linear ways), Venat, Emet to an extent, Jullus, Quintus (who couldn't take the concept of being wrong).
Endwalker's also not bloodless; I'm not sure if you're the type to weigh a raw nameless bodycount or named character deaths heavier, but Endwalker's not bottom of the list in either. In terms of nameless deaths I think it might actually be up near the top; I'd have to do an actual body count between it and Stormblood, which I won't do, but Garlemald and the Thavnair revisit ratchet up that count by A LOT. In terms of named characters, we've got Ahewann, Venat/Hydaelyn, Quintus, Fancy Dan (technically several times), the Blasphemies if you want to count them, and a couple other weird edge cases. That's hardly the biggest named bodycount (I think the Knights Twelve alone make Heavensward win that one), but it's definitely ahead of both SBs.
Then there's 'other games have major motivating character deaths', which... uhm. Yes. They do. So does FFXIV, though; see, again, the Aitiascope. Endwalker does broadly teach the message of 'move on instead of wallowing in it', but really, it's not FFXIV taking that stance that sets it apart, it was underlining it; I can think of very few games that don't show the importance of moving on.
And there's also the apparent notion you have that FFXIV is unique in cutting this dramatic tension with comedy and light-heartedness, which is... well, I'm going to systematically go through every single one of your examples to pick both of these last two apart.
FFVI: Yes, Celes does attempt suicide after Cid dies (if he dies, of course). But then she gets a message from the outside world, realizes she shouldn't throw away her life, and moves on. It's also the game with Mog in it, so it's not exactly straight-faced. I'd instead put forward the Phantom Train segment, where Cyan gets my favorite character scene in the story and actually does struggle for much longer to move on... but remember that just after Phantom Train is our introduction to Gau.
FFIV: A decent amount of deaths, and everyone who survives them learns from and is better for it. This is also the game that introduced the concept of 'bunny people that live on the moon', who turned up right at the final stretch.
FFV: A bunch of deaths, that everyone either moves on from or already had moved on from. This is also... honestly, just FFV, it's the most outright comedic game in the series.
FFVII: Everyone moves on from Aerith's sacrifice and finishes the fight for her. ...well, everyone in the story does; there's a whole lot of people who still haven't made peace with that one. This is also the game with Wall Market, and the scene right after Aerith's death is a sick snowboarding minigame.
FFIX: Garnet moved on from Queen Brahne's death and fought against what was controlling her, both literally in the form of Kuja and metaphorically in the form of 'the embodiment of death'. Vivi's an odd one to bring up, because he dies off-screen between the ending and epilogue and we don't really see anyone dealing with it. But this is also the game with Quina, Steiner, Zidane, Zorn and Thorn... honestly the fact you think XIV is more childish than IX, the game that's literally getting a children's cartoon.
FFX: Yeah, X-2's got a lot about Yuna learning to move on after Tidus' death. Both games also give pretty much everyone the chance to be a silly joke character once in a while. ...and the FFX-3 audio story has Tidus die (again) by kicking a bomb disguised as a blitzball, which is the funniest thing in the world.
FFXV: Yeah, someone died off-screen, and it changed basically nothing about any of the characters; Ignis going blind was more influential, but even there it mostly skipped over everyone dealing with that. I wouldn't even say anyone moves on in FFXV, because I barely feel like they moved in the first place. XV's my least favorite Final Fantasy, you might be able to tell. But it's also the game with the Cup Noodle quest, and... honestly, just Prompto in general.
FFXVI: Neither of us can comment on how much character deaths will or will not matter in this game, because it does not yet exist. But I can tell you with confidence that, like all Final Fantasy games before it, it will have some clownshoes comedic nonsense cutting the tension.
Dragon Age: I only played the first one, because the dialog wheel Bioware started using in all their games afterwards turned me away from them. But Origins actually kinda didn't have meaningful character deaths, it basically only had deaths for stake-raising, shock value and failure punishments (which incidentally is also a point I would level at ME1 and 2).
Fire Emblem: Yes, character deaths do happen, and being a series set in wars they are a series with a large raw bodycount, it's not actually one where character deaths are all that heavily motivating for the living, probably because they have to design the stories around the whole 'unit permadeath' thing. Three Houses is a rich goddamn thing to put forward, though, because not only is it one of the games with the lowest named bodycount if you're a vigilant recruiter, it's also the one that most heavily emphasized undercutting the darkness with softer character moments. Basically the 'darkest' element of Three Houses compared to the rest of the series is a deliberate direction towards not resolving all its conflicts; every side you could pick ignores at least one of the world's major problems, probably more.
Bayonetta 3: You're just putting this in to spoil people for a brand new game out of some kind of weird attack, because not only is it in stark contrast to all of the rest of these games in not being an RPG, I also can't possibly imagine that there's a single human being alive who thinks Bayonetta is a game with serious story worth heavily discussing. (The better Platinum game to bring in here, by the way, would be Astral Chain; also not exactly winning awards, but it's not brand new and much less tongue-in-cheek.)
I was going to say that your arguments actually hold no common logic at all, but then I realized that one of the examples you added in on editing was so thin that, by holding it up as an example, you gave away the only thing you actually cared about.
FFII: This is actually the secret key to understand you completely, because FFII doesn't have character development as a result of deaths, it just has deaths. By holding this up as a superior story, you're showing that you don't actually care about the story: you just think Death Means Gritty Means Good. You don't care that Guy Speak Beaver; you just care that it piled up the bodies and nobody was ever happy, so it must be a better story.
As I mentioned before, Endwalker is in contention for the highest bodycount in FFXIV expansions. But despite that, which you seem to think is very important, you decry Endwalker. And I think you decry it because it dared to say that after it, people had some fucking hope. It dared to be optimistic and smile, and you can't stomach that.
The fact you decry the lalafel are interesting, too; those have been around since the start, and are actually played as among the most regularly serious races in the game--in fact, they're much more serious than the actual dwarves when they turned up. So that says to me that you've either been ignoring huge swathes of the game to pretend it was exactly what you wanted to see of it until suddenly Endwalker told you that was wrong, or that you're just blindly throwing whatever you think will win whatever shifting, nonsensical argument you think you're having.
Aveyond, you're bad at reading and your ideas suck. -
11-02-2022, 08:23 PMMikkoAkureYou mean the same game where a major character has a chocobo chick that lives in his afro? And talks to and is understood by the guy whose hair she lives in? And takes out a psicom soldier? And also somehow grows up to become a time-traveling fan-service human woman named “Chocolina” in the sequel?Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
All FF games have light-hearted elements alongside dark elements. Ahead of its release, FFXV was touted as “the darkest FF” but we still had things like Kenny Crow and goofy interactions between the main characters.
FFXIV similarly has light and dark elements and some stuff in EW is darker than the game has gone before, like a child getting turned into a monster that can never enter the afterlife in front of his dad and then getting stepped on by a larger monster. Or a mother carrying her baby dying on screen and later the baby showing signs of beginning to turn into a monster before being saved.
As an MMO meant to have a longer shelf life than a single-player game, it’s going to have to have more of a balance if it’s meant to cast its net at a wider playerbase and retain them longer. A game where only dark and bad stuff happens is just going to wear most people down over time and care less and less about the story if we never get a break or a win.
The game is not meant to target specifically you. Get over yourself.
Dude. No essay necessary. He’s right there at the end of the credits. I said as much in another thread and that wasn’t an essay either.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
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11-02-2022, 08:24 PMGarnix
I totally can understand that someone wouldn't like the writing style of ShB/EW.
But...EW basically makes you bond with Venat/Hythlo/Hermes, even though they obviously are going to die. That is basically made to raise the stakes. (whether it works on your or not is of course subjective)
A lot of EW's moment wouldn't have happened if characters like Louisouix, Minfilia or even Moenbryda did not die.
There is also a suicide during EW...and multiple minor characters died.
Could also go back to Arenvald losing his legs.
A lot of our current cast of characters got some character development based on somebody else's death... (Thancred had Minfilia, Urianger had Moenbryda, Alisaie had Louisoix and Tesleen, Estinien had Nidhogg and Ysayle, Alphi had Haurchefant and Arenvald legs and probably more, G'Raha had a whole world from which he is the only survivor, etc etc.) -
11-02-2022, 08:46 PMJandorNo need to count 'em up Cleretic. Endwalker wins handily in terms of nameless deaths, given its story features multiple planetary apocalypses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleretic
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11-02-2022, 08:49 PMaveyond-dreams
And right on cue, the essay writer’s guild makes their entirely expected entrance, only to espouse nonsense not worth more than a passing glance.
All in defense of what is now the most controversial of FFXIV’s expansions. Christ, give me a “meh” story like Stormblood over the disaster that was Endwalker any day.
I can only hope that as FFXIV winds itself down that the sort of people it cultivated and allowed to fester remain in more juvenile media and do not contaminate other games like Ashes and so on. Goodness knows they wouldn’t be able to deal with a story that deals with hope and hopelessness in a more compelling manner.
Plague Tale Requiem comes to mind. But doubtless too much for the types here. -
11-02-2022, 09:03 PMRukoBoshi
The most controversial expansion have better overall reviews than Shadowbringers or Heavensward. It's acclaimed by both critics and players.
https://i.imgur.com/uSv2ZcD.jpeg
I can understand not liking Endwalker story, but let's not act like it's FFXIV downfall. Endwalker was the end of a saga, we are starting a new one, so it means you won't see continuation of the plot you didn't appreciated in 6.0.
To me FFXIV have always been as it's best when it tells a self contained story like HW or SHB, this is how 7.0 will start when it will introduce it's new plot. -
11-02-2022, 09:32 PMaveyond-dreamsCritics that consequently stopped playing afterwards and likely didn't give the story or its insufferable themes more than the passing glance I gave to the two essays dumped at the bottom of the previous page of this thread, and players that have routinely shut out and censored negative opinions of the game. I'm supposed to put any stock in what they say?Quote:
Originally Posted by RukoBoshi
The game is falling apart from content to gameplay to a story that spawned a 700 page thread where it's been torn apart a thousand times over. 7.0 can't come soon enough and good luck to Hiroi, because fixing the wreck that was made of this game's worldbuilding and lore under Ishikawa's tenure will be no easy feat. I do agree that self contained stories are probably the better way to go about this than the cosmic mess Endwalker tried to pull. I just want a region to fall in love and connect with like I did for places like Ferelden, Ishgard, and so on.
For all the attempts to mischaracterize me by some as someone who is impossible to please, I was quite satisfied with this game's story and the way it handled character arcs/growth in Heavensward and Shadowbringers especially. You cannot ask me to let my standards slip when Endwalker delivered a story wherein those elements were handled so poorly, expecting me to root for the Scions as the champions of hope over despair when the suffering was suffered collaterally by everyone around them, with them just making sad faces. This isn't the way things went in 3.0 and 5.0, so I will call it out when people try and defend this nonsense. -
11-02-2022, 09:44 PMGarnix
Torn apart for 700 pages by what? 20 players out of a couple millions, who make most their arguments sound like trolling, and then get surprised that said "white knights" disagree with them and immediately proceed insulting them?
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11-02-2022, 09:59 PMMikkoAkureCleretic may have written a lot, but today I learned that about 10 sentences is an essay. I wish my professors thought the same when I was in college.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
The post I replied to from you was longer than mine but I guess if you don't like what it says then it's harder to read and worthy of adding a snarky tag to the thread that has improper grammar. -
11-02-2022, 10:17 PMCarin-EriYou know for a fact that they stopped playing?Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
The game isn't falling apart just because a select few representatives of a vocal minority (i.e. some forumites) say so.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
That's the issue here, though; you're judging everyone else by your standards and seem to have little tolerance for those who don't agree and either enjoyed Endwalker or, at the very least, liked it regardless of it's flaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
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11-02-2022, 10:38 PMCleretic
Whining that the people you're arguing with are 'writing essays' is basically just trying to turn 'my argument is thinner than everyone else's' into a win. It's not exactly a top strategy.
I was mostly going by 'on-screen' deaths and bodies. It handily wins by implied deaths (with the runner-up there being Heavensward just because it was the one that confirmed that the Ascians were mulching more than just the planet we were on), but in terms of either 'we saw a death' or 'we saw a body' I'd wager it's between Endwalker and Stormblood just because Stormblood does have kind of a lot of battles at fairly large scale, so we did run past a lot of bodies in stuff like Doma Castle and the Ghimlyt Dark. So it basically comes down to if those numbers beat Garlemald and the Thavnair revisit. However I will note that between those Endwalker's casualties were more strongly characterized, while in Stormblood we were pretty much only walking past geometry that looked like bodies, or soldiers that got no lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
If we allow an additional tier of 'only strongly implied deaths' which include us seeing an event that logically had a bodycount while not seeing the actual bodies, then Stormblood holds the lead through the multiple military base destructions riiiiiight up until Endwalker leaps ahead with the Dead Ends' Karellian stretch, where it is strongly implied we watched a man fire the missiles that killed an entire planet. But I feel like when we start counting by that metric we're just splitting hairs for the fun of it. -
11-02-2022, 11:40 PMAlleoI love the FF13 games. Yes some of the themes in that game were dark and I enjoyed the story of it (Shocking I know but one can like more than one theme) but lets not forget that at the end, at least the main characters were fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
FF14 has also gotten some of the side characters killed over time. You know like Haurchefant, Ysayle, Papalymo, Minfilia, a big amount of scions with the raids, Ardbert and his whole group and more. These are just the named characters. So lets not pretend that this game has no death. (And no it doesnt matter if you like those character or not, death is death)
Honestly the game has probably killed of more known character than a lot of other FF games including FF13. -
11-02-2022, 11:53 PMSannaR
@cleretic non named, minor, and faceless npc deaths don't count to a certain crowd. Same crowd also doesn't take in that story beats ect have to be written differently from single player games due to one being an on going saga and the other having to wrap up at some point. So one can have a fake out last most of the game in a single player meanwhile in an MMO when you need to cram the equivalent of a complete single player game into an expansion some of the things need to get shortened. Endwalker is probably the first time it's been heavily slapped into your face.
I loved XIII it has some of the best music in the series. Just it didn't give you as good of an illusion as other games in order to hide the linear-ness it had. It probably also could have allowed you to explore more before reaching Grand Pulse and maybe a go back to X but it does make sense as to why it doesn't allow that. -
11-03-2022, 08:01 AMAwesomeJr44Gee, I wonder why the death of random side NPCs that we've known for 5 minutes don't really matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by SannaR
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11-03-2022, 08:02 AMClereticYeah, that's kinda the thing about calling a story 'bloodless' or 'lacking death'; there's a bunch of different, mostly arbitrary ways to declare that certain deaths 'don't count'. Hell, even I do it; I consider Dragon Age: Origins a pretty death-free game, because while it has a high bodycount barely any of them are characters that actually matter to anybody, it's basically just a throng of bodies to set the tone and setting. But yeah, that's why I mentioned that Endwalker's no slouch in terms of both named and unnamed NPC deaths; if one of those doesn't count to you, the other should.Quote:
Originally Posted by SannaR
And I think it should also be noted that FFXIII has perhaps the most egregious usage of 'fight against stated inevitable fact but winning because of Determination' in the entire series at the end. At least with FFXIV it gets conceptual with the help of a zone and concepts that really help it make that actually work, while XIII basically just goes 'no, they believed hard enough to get a good ending anyway'.
I consider XIII's sequels better than the original (in no small part because XIII-2's ending includes the characters trying to do the 'fight fate with conviction' thing and failing miserably, which is very funny), but I'm fully aware that to a lot of people, saying 'FFXIII's sequels were better' is a claim met with great skepticism, because anyone who can say it played multiple FFXIII games. -
11-03-2022, 08:29 AMRukoBoshiIt does matter, it established the stakes in the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44
Or you're going to tell me the death of the ancients during the Amaurot dungeon weren't effective in that regard ?
Because the death of these randoms NPC hit me hard, and i only knew them for 1 hour before Amaurot. It did felt like it mattered.
Seeing the people of Thavnair die horribly after spending time there first was absolutely effective in upping the stakes, just like in that dungeon. -
11-03-2022, 08:45 AMsidurgu-12The thavnair dungeon hurt soo much. Each rerun i keep hoping for a way to save that family.Quote:
Originally Posted by RukoBoshi
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11-03-2022, 08:56 AMKariTheFox
I think if the only reason you can give for why more characters ought to die is to "prove" that the story has stakes, you might want to go back and rethink what you want out of the story.
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11-03-2022, 09:16 AMaveyond-dreamsFor the cast to not be made up of immortal and invincible nobodies whose sacrifices are invalidated within the span of a half hour in an expansion where the stakes for them should have been the highest. Especially if these writers were going to be so tone deaf as to try and preach how these characters represent hope winning over despair. This isn’t a story that resonates with people who have experienced the real sort of problems Endwalker is so eager to tell people to forge ahead instead of addressing in a realistic way.Quote:
Originally Posted by KariTheFox
Given all that’s been said and done I fully believe that a decent chunk of this playerbase especially those in this thread are willing to accept pretty much anything so long as it’s sanctioned by Yoshi, so they lose nothing if those of us wanting a more mature world and story get our way. They’ll play regardless. Whereas EW caused no small amount of us to quit with me being one of the last holdouts because I want to have money in case of the slim chance that 7.0 isn’t a disaster like this expansion was. -
11-03-2022, 09:19 AMKariTheFox
I am fairly certain that plenty of the people that Endwalker resonated with have in fact, experienced "real problems".
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11-03-2022, 09:32 AMaveyond-dreamsI’ve told people in real life about how EW tried to pull off its messaging. They were not appreciative of it. I do not believe that the people who defend its messaging have experienced loss in their lives or if they have they definitely didn’t process it like a normal human being.Quote:
Originally Posted by KariTheFox
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11-03-2022, 09:36 AMKazemon15I am 100% sure the way you told other people is a twisted version of what it really was. And people who like its story, myself included have experienced loss. You're pretty high up there if you think that. I have lost my father, mother, grandmother, 2 aunts, a cousin and 3 pets all in a span of 5 years. EW resonated with me *because* it showed loss but also showed hope, which was its main theme, so get off your dumb high horse that you're the ONLY ONE who understand what "loss" is and not anyone else, little boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
Also what is "normal human being"? EVERYONE experiences loss differently. If YOU truly experienced loss, you would know that. -
11-03-2022, 09:39 AMKariTheFoxI'm not suprised that people were not "appreciative" of you talking (in a very even-handed and unbiased way, I'm sure.) about how horrible Endwalker's writing is.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
What do I even say to this? You honestly believe that people who like a video game's story and themes haven't experienced loss? Am I being trolled right now?