Quote:
Originally Posted by Semirhage
Just to be clear, I was talking about Emet-Selch/the ascians in general. I guess I wasn’t expecting to find some people actually consider Hydaelin to be the main villain/evil/genocidal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teraq
Do people on these forums only complain endlessly?
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09-02-2022, 12:00 AMElenaRedoran
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09-02-2022, 12:31 AMTheodric
It's almost like people can see genocide as a bad and highly unfortunate thing across the board, rather than solely when it's conducted by the antagonists.
The common stance for many is, in actuality, that although it makes sense for the Sundered not to be expected to just roll over and die for the sake of the Unsundered the reverse is true as well. Furthermore, it was Hydaelyn who put both sides in such an unpleasant position in the first place so criticising her for that is...not at all unreasonable. To claim otherwise is to suggest that sometimes genocide is 'necessary', at which point we circle back to wondering why those arguing as such even have an issue in the first place.
Furthermore, it's just pixels on a screen at the end of the day. Nobody becomes a serial killer in the real world if they join the Dark Brotherhood in an Elder Scrolls game. -
09-02-2022, 12:35 AMSsmiley_Bjakkzz
I remember when i said Helluuuuuu
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09-02-2022, 01:06 AMaveyond-dreamsI think that issues with both content and writing should be pointed out and actively discussed as they are noticed. Many efforts were made to stifle the discussion surrounding the limited hair choices for Viera and Hrothgar, shaming people for asking for the standard already established by the other races only for everyone to then get upset when 2 years passed without a single update. Perhaps if they had not been so defensive about how those two races released they would've gotten those updates much sooner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubolomus
The same can easily be applied to the story, which at least saw a marked difference between 6.1 and 6.2. 6.1 had the infamous magical girl scene and Estinien trying to land jokes in the MSQ, and after much critique thankfully no such scenes were present in the MSQ for 6.2. The most we got close to that was the scene where Zero met Nidhana, except that one was actually fitting and not completely random like Y'shtola's scene was. It appears that the humour, for those who are interested in it, will be contained to side content. As it should be.
I have no plans to force myself to play through the Loporrit and Omicron tribe questline, however I still am quite upset that rather than finish off the Ivalician/Bozja story that relics have now been linked to Hildibrand, of all things. Hopefully the controversy that arose from that will allow them to make better choices for the relic in the future. A well-crafted story that takes itself seriously, keeping light-heartedness and dark moments properly balanced will appeal to most people. A darker story, while may disappoint some, is usually not enough to make people consider uninstalling. A story that used to be serious and leaning towards an epic conclusion being overloaded with slice of life and humour at the last minute? That is when problems arise. -
09-02-2022, 01:09 AMKazharMain villain and evil are debatable, I can see arguments on both sides (even though I'm really partial to the idea that yes, she is an evil person). But is it really SUCH a stretch to see the idea of intentionally and forcefully destroying the bodies and personalities of millions of people as awfully similar (if not a textbook definition) to genocide? When it's said on different social media platforms some people react extremely negatively like we've taken crazy pills and I've no idea why.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaRedoran
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09-02-2022, 01:27 AMTeraqhttps://i.imgur.com/Wsh84jK.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Kazhar
I am genuinely baffled by this game's fanbase. Coming from a franchise which has Sephiroth and Kefka as some of its most popular characters, not to mention Kuja, the varied Shinra employees… Villains have always been popular, no matter the body count or even sometimes because of it. -
09-02-2022, 01:34 AMTheSuperiorIt's ok to like hot characters and last I checked, Sephiroth and just about all of ShinRa are s m o k i n'Quote:
Originally Posted by Teraq
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09-02-2022, 01:34 AMTeraqWhat a classic. Make the not-so-subtle accusation of misogyny where there was none to score internet points. Venat's gender has never mattered, whether out of universe (as far as I'm concerned) or within, because that's just how based Ancients were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
Not only was Venat's choice only really "impossible" in her head because of her own fears about how people would react, leading to her inaction, but substituting the word "genocide" by its definition doesn't really make it any less genocide. -
09-02-2022, 01:37 AMBoblawblahIf you don't care to understand why people disagree with you, then fair enough. Stick to your little group here, feeling superior. It IS extreme language for most people imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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09-02-2022, 01:39 AMaveyond-dreams
Both Emet-Selch and Venat have done terrible things. Emet-Selch is a villain. So is Venat. Hades from greek mythology and a fallen angel derived from Christian legends. It is ok to like one or the other, but the game has only painted a proper picture of one.
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09-02-2022, 01:43 AMTheodricI admittedly do not feel inclined to pay much heed to people disagreeing with me based on inconsistently applied concepts, nor do I feel compelled to 'stick to my little group'. As I stated in my previous post, by all means feel free to agree to disagree. That you see someone referring to the consequences of Venat's actions as genocide, which is readily applicable, as an 'extreme stance' is not something I'm going to censor. It certainly doesn't stop people from - quite rightly - referring to the Rejoinings as genocide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
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09-02-2022, 01:43 AMHurlstone
I do think there are folk who will use such wording less as accurate descriptions of events and more to try and make others look bad, even akin to support such actions in real life. Such as describing Hydaelyn as ‘Murder Mommy’ etc. In the end it really is silly/stupid to try and say that someone being a fan of a villain is a supporter of their actions/ideology. Is everyone with a Darth Vader figure a supporter of child murder? Anyone who has read a Punisher comic a psychopath?
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09-02-2022, 01:46 AMTheodricI think the difference is that when Venat is criticised, it's Venat being criticised...whereas often when Emet-Selch or the Garleans are criticised the attacks are more personal and consist of calling people 'misogynists', 'fascists', 'racists' and 'genocide apologists'. All of which has happened repeatedly over the years that this game has existed - and yet when a tiny bit of pushback is embraced that pushback is falsely amplified into 'both sides' or the worst atrocity ever committed on the internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurlstone
...and the thread itself also opened up with this. If we're describing the Ascians in such terms then they'd technically be correct. Though so, too, are they an apt descriptor when applied to Venat.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaRedoran
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09-02-2022, 01:59 AMLordGigglesI agree it's a pretty extreme term, but considering the actions in question are pretty extreme I don't really see the issue? Wiping out an entire species is genocide really no matter how you put it, justified or otherwise. Any other language you could use would really just be posting a definition of genocide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Like "forcefully destroyed the bodies and personalities of millions of people because x,y,z" applied to a particular group of people is just genocide. -
09-02-2022, 02:04 AMTeraqSee the OP building a nice little strawman to insult people:Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
I could be massively disingenuous and intellectually dishonest and say WELL ACTUALLYYYy it isn't genocide, because first of all it is a very heavy word to use that does not befit a purely fictional story, and secondly nobody on the Shards died because it was simply a rejoining of souls, a quasi-mythological, abstract event that I as a mere human living in the real world cannot properly compute or relate to, and besides, Ardbert has rejoined with us and he's still speaking to us, therefore he is not dead, and therefore nobody died. The Unsundered have simply been put into an impossible situation, by a third party who never informed them of her motives or of the real threat, of having to uphold their duty and responsibilities to their people as members of the highest governmental authority on the planet to save their relatives and loved ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaRedoran
Except, no. The Ascians are absolutely genociding Sundered humanity, the game calls this out and the protagonists resist it (though not before Alisaie says she wouldn't know how she would act in their position), as is their right. Nobody disagrees with this. I love Ascians because I've loved villains for as long as I can remember, and I've never felt as bizarrely attacked for it as I have in the FFXIV fandom. My favorite characters are not a reflect of my real world politics, I don't know about anyone else, but I am a left-voting feminist, as I know some other Ascian/Garlean fans are.
In contrast, you do, however, routinely see people absolve Venat of the fact that she reduced her people to apparently shapeless blobs of aether (could just be Emet's aether vision POV) incapable of coherent speech, deleted or at least severely amputated their memory, drastically reduced their lifespan which you could assimilate to a slow poisoning or cancer diagnosis, took care to wipe their culture out of history enough that we had never heard of it before one of them told us everything, and then lied about it for a dozen thousand years. It doesn't matter that the plot engages in impressive gymnastics via egregious plot devices such as a time loop and a Power Of Friendship we had never heard of before but whose defining characteristic, Ancients being unable to directly interact with it, is quite obviously intended to be justification that she had no choice but to kill them all, as Y'shtola herself so brilliantly points out after the level 89 trial. In fact, the way Endwalker frames the Ancients opposite Good Venat and Hermes (who is portrayed as an antagonist but obviously meant to appear at least slightly sympathetic because CUE CAMERA PANNING TO THE LITTLE INNOCENT HEDGEHOGS), the incredibly unsubtle parallel to The Plenty, alongside the complete absence of anyone calling out Venat on her actions but herself, which is instantly brushed aside by the protagonists… it all looks a little too close to making excuses and apologies for… ah… the unfortunate mass lifespan-shortening of an entire race and erasure of an entire culture and civilisation. Yes, let's call it that. -
09-02-2022, 02:05 AMHurlstoneSee, I do not entirely agree with that. With Venat's criticisms, I have often also seen things such as insults that her fans are ‘lacking in critical thinking’ or simply apart of a ‘herd mentality/echo chamber.’ along with it. I do not really think there is a misogynistic edge to the criticisms as some say, but the constant referring to her as ‘MuMMy/murder mom’ in a specific way does feel like an attempt to dehumanise or belittle her fans. Sure many of the comments will be genuine criticism and debate on the character and narrative, but its not so black and white. I admit, I have not been as active in the forums long enough to see as much Emet/Ascians hate as other describe, but it sucks that people would do that and such accusations are never called for… but the fact that such personal and aimed criticism has happened is not really a defence to use the same tactics on others just for spite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
Sure perhaps it would be different if we where talking more about real life issues, where such heated debate would be more acceptable and supported, but as you and others have said, in the end this is a video game. -
09-02-2022, 02:09 AMBoblawblahSo why do most people like Venat then and don't have a problem with her actions? Are we going to jump to saying they just don't care about genocide? Or could it be that they don't see what she did AS genocide, especially given the culture of the Ancients? When you frame the discussion as "it's genocide. period.", it makes it VERY hard to have a rational discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordGiggles
Let me be clear, I can see why someone would argue that what she did was completely insane, and wrong.
Oh, and about the "bitch" comment, that was just an extreme example. I have no desire to "win internet points" as someone mentioned, I'm not sure why I would care, what internet points are available here exactly anyways? -
09-02-2022, 09:14 AMLordGigglesI have no idea why they didn't have a problem with it (though the wol can say they don't think she was justified in the recent omega quests), but I don't think the scions get to dictate the meaning of an irl word. Particularly when none of them come across as terribly wise (UT alone is decent proof of that). It's fairly objectively a genocide, any discussion of the morality of the sundering needs to start from that base fact. There's just not any real way to view it differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
The writers generally choosing to frame it as a good thing doesn't change what it is, it just means they/some characters think it was a justified action. -
09-02-2022, 11:25 AMJagick
The concept of "If you don't have anything positive to say, then don't say anything" is something that belongs back in Elementary School. Which is convenient because a lot of the people that get so angry about criticism and feedback seem to have the emotional maturity of a child around that age.
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09-02-2022, 11:32 AMVelKallorBadly received?Quote:
which at least didn't push its message in a way that was as badly received as Endwalker's.
*Looks at multiple reviews worldwide which sang Endwalkers praises*
*Looks at Aveyonds's post*
*Laughs*
YOU didnt like it.
A lot of other people..DID. -
09-02-2022, 11:37 AMTheodric
So some claim at every possible opportunity, yet the existence of people speaking out against Endwalker and expressing their concerns with the story suggests that it isn't overwhelmingly well received and instead received mixed reactions. By all means, feel free to take modern day gaming 'journalists' and influencers at face value but many of us are sceptical when their continued income and success relies on just parroting whatever honeyed words will secure them future invites to media tours. To say nothing of the way in which a portion of this fandom conducts itself given that some of the streamers who have criticised the game - as well as individual players - have received death threats for doing so.
This very thread has some very unhinged reactions towards people lightly questioning the narrative surrounding Venat so it strikes me as rather strange to double down in such a manner. Strange, but not at all surprising I suppose. -
09-02-2022, 11:42 AMStriker44From my perspective, it's not a matter of considering/not considering something genocide or caring/not caring about it, but recognizing the lack of a viable alternative. If Venat doesn't act, the Ancients go through with their plan of sacrificing people to summon Zodiark, sacrificing more people to bring about an explosion of life, and then mass genociding that life to bring back their previous sacrifices. Genocide would have occurred no matter what Venat chose to do or not do, so it becomes irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
I compare it to the famous mine shaft problem in philosophy. A rock is falling down a mine shaft and will crush 4 people. You can pull a lever to send the rock down a different shaft, where it will crush 1 person. What do you do? If you pull the lever, you intentionally cause the death of that 1 person. If you don't, you never "directly" kill anyone, but you also guarantee that 4 people will die instead. The basic matter of the act that someone dies is irrelevant because someone dies no matter what you do. Venat chose to pull the lever and bring about the death of less people while allowing a massively larger amount of life to occur and have a chance, instead of doing nothing and seeing that life be destroyed in place of the remaining 1/4 of so of the Ancients.
There's literally hundreds of thousands of active players in FFXIV right now. There's maybe a few dozen of us here on the forum. The mere existence of a minuscule handful of people in comparison "speaking out" about something in and of itself is utterly meaningless. That "existence" of people will be present for literally any position on any topic you can create, even if we know it's completely and utterly lopsided in favor of one side.Quote:
So some claim at every possible opportunity, yet the existence of people speaking out against Endwalker and expressing their concerns with the story suggests that it isn't overwhelmingly well received and instead received mixed reactions.
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09-02-2022, 12:19 PMKazharYou say, while using polls from GameFaqs and Reddit to help with your daily fallacious appeal to majority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker44
If you want to dismiss a 600 hundred page thread as a complete outlier in your stats, you'd have to admit that the same could be said of many of your own sources and completely made up numbers (Weren't you the clown who, only a few days ago talked about how 95% of players agreed with whatever your stance of the moment was?)
Or you adopt the more reasonable, less hypocritical stance that each social media platform, this one included, represents a certain demographic of players. Square Enix themselves certainly seem to believe that the forums represent something since in some cases (the Hrothgar hairstyle drama), they directly came here to ask the opinion of the playerbase. Not on reddit. Not on gamefaqs. Here. -
09-02-2022, 12:29 PMSilverbane95% of the players agree with a stance I hold at this moment. Really really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazhar
I just wish I knew which stance ... -
09-02-2022, 12:33 PMRaoabolicA lot of people also like games becoming a "service". Doesn't mean that there is plenty wrong with the subject being discussed. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
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09-02-2022, 12:48 PMTheodric
I've said as much already in the past but the primary purpose of this forum is to discuss the game and provide feedback to the development team. That aside, I've also seen the fall from grace of World of Warcraft first hand and a large part of that game's collapse can be attributed to devoted players rushing to stifle any negative criticism whatsoever.
It wasn't the only reason, though a lot of us saw the writing on the wall and spoke up in an effort to mitigate problems as we saw them emerging. Such players encountered eerily similar to rhetoric to what is now being spouted within this very thread regarding a supposed 'majority' that is absolutely fine with everything, apparently. -
09-02-2022, 12:59 PMMidareyukki
I mean, what else would they do? Sing kumbaya? If we wanted random posts no one cared for, we'd have Reddit.
Edit: Wait, we do have random posts no one cares for. Nevermind, I stand corrected.
Some people do nitpick and only focus on the negatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
But jesus, the amount of people going insane just because someone pointed out a negative or said something was lacking is ridiculous.
I think those people expect any and every negative feedback to always be balanced by a positive comment. Which is just unrealistic. And the same goes for them: blind positivity without addressing flaws or at the very least that "stuff can be improved upon" is what kills games. -
09-02-2022, 01:16 PMHurlstonePersonally speaking, I think its also the apparent scope of mixed reviews that people may have an issue with too. I think its fair to say that there seems to be a number of players here who have more issues with Endwalkers story then previous expansions and in time opinion of it will likely fall more then it will rise, but is that enough to objectively call its reaction mixed or bad like some say? We are after all an extremely small minority of players who seek out social sites to discuss things and even then, there are still plenty of players here who disagree with the negativity. When one looks at the wider reviews for the game, most do point in the positive direction. I agree that critical reviews, influences etc. should always be taken with a grain of salt. In my view art is always an subjective medium that only an individual can judge anyway. That said, most player reviews seem to match the critics too and it feels unwise to just completely ignore them when trying to get a gauge of what the overall play reaction may be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
Yes yes, I know, I know! Echo chambers and exaggerations exist on Reddit, Twitter etc. but if we must be critical of every opinion that comes from said places that are not here for fear they may be ‘tainted’ by such toxic positivity, then how on Etheirys can anyone reach any conclusion, subjective or objective? It bares reminding that whilst it may be easier to expressive negative criticism here on this forum, that does not mean it is free of such closed echos and dressing up agendas as critical debate either. Toxic negativity is still a thing, you know.
In the end, no matter how much we argue, we just have to hope that SE take multiple sources and player types into account when trying to judge these things. Also it of course goes without saying that death threats of any kind are horrific and another reason why people on every side of the debate need to be reminded that this is a bloody video game. -
09-02-2022, 01:37 PMMidareyukkiYou're right in that we shouldn't take the forums, or any small group as a sample to collectively refer to the whole community. Youtube's FF14 community sings Endwalker's praise, Reddit is somewhat mixed but on a favourable hill, while the forums definitely is split with people whose opinion of the game was lowered by Endwalker's flaws, people who agree EW has flaws but their opinion of the game hasn't been lowered by them alone, while others see no problem and so their opinion remains favourable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurlstone
But we also need to know where those people come from:
- Youtube is made up of Content Creators whose main focus is to enjoy and broadcast the game. Unless they have something else they and their fanbase enjoys, they likely won't say anything too negative.
- Reddit's environment is full of people who like the game and hold almost no criticism for it. Whenever there is criticism, either it gets promptly justified and downvoted and we never see them again, or it gets discussed a bit and it doesn't lead anywhere. Also, it's not a place the devs look into for feedback, so there's little point in complaining there.
- The forums are specifically what the devs claim to pay attention to. So there is an incentive to post criticism of the game and complaints here. So it's far less filtered.
I will say that only one of my friends even sets his eyes on the forums, but all of them collectively are a mixed bag. You have the ones who are displeased, you have others that agree there are flaws but carry on because it doesn't affect them and you have those who just say "the game's a game" and move on. And you'll likely see this from the majority of the fanbase with varying intensity. All in all, we all keep playing and paying a subscription for a reason. If we didn't like it, given how supposedly more on the adult side the FF14 fanbase is, we'd know it's not for us and we'd drop it.
And I think that's the positivity we should all have: if we play it, it's because we like something about it. If we complain, it's because we want improvements. If we have zero faith, then it's just simply not for us and we're wasting time.
Even in controversial threads, you have people reasonable enough to draw a line between a complaint and an unreasonable expectation. If you do nothing but stick to your guns and not try to get the other side and concede when they're right, then that's on you. The issue is that for a lot of people, the mere fact you agree with the topic at all means you're seeking an echo chamber. And it's way too easy to accuse others of doing that when you really only read one or two of their posts. You don't know where they stand at all, you only know where they stand on one particular answer with a character limit.
Some people are obvious trolls, but that's not the case every time. So many threads get derailed and people in them get insulted just because people disagree with the topic and think those who agree just want an echo chamber. -
09-02-2022, 02:28 PMHurlstoneA fair point. Agendas and biases are found in ever corner of social media, and no individual will be free of them. None of us are impartial, and it really dose not helped when comments in communities can be drowned out by whichever side is dominate. At the same time, I just feel it can be disingenuous how those other sites are completely written off by some here. Positivity there is not always gonna come from a lack of ‘critical thinking’ or ‘herd mentality’ as some say. Heck, I have seen people say that art commissions posted on Reddit and Twitter are a symptom of its toxic positivity and that just seems… bonkers to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Midareyukki
Interesting! Funnily enough of the people I know who play and have beaten Endwalker, they have all said they loved the story haha. I think individually we will all get different reactions like from our own circles.Quote:
I will say that only one of my friends even sets his eyes on the forums, but all of them collectively are a mixed bag.
Indeed, whilst there are certainly people who do seem to like just wasting time and trolling for fun, I think most of us on both sides of this debate simply do want the game to improve and continue on its adventure. We just disagree on where the quality currently falls on the scales. Plus, we are talking about lore here. Whilst story is more important here to the game then in other MMOs, I suspect more players (Not us, story and lore is why I play haha) are concerned about getting their voices heard on things like job balances, new gameplay modes, race features, housing etc.Quote:
And I think that's the positivity we should all have: if we play it, it's because we like something about it. If we complain, it's because we want improvements. If we have zero faith, then it's just simply not for us and we're wasting time.
True enough. I think there are many people on both sides of the debate that want to debate these things in more civil manner, but it does not take long for such issues to fall into a barrage of veiled insults and false narratives. I personally feel its often weighed in one direction more then the other here, but like you said, we can only know where people stand on these things in a limited way.Quote:
Even in controversial threads, you have people reasonable enough to draw a line between a complaint and an unreasonable expectation..
Some people are obvious trolls, but that's not the case every time. So many threads get derailed and people in them get insulted just because people disagree with the topic and think those who agree just want an echo chamber.
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09-02-2022, 02:56 PMMidareyukkihttps://i.imgur.com/RqHvBlE.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Hurlstone
Are they all very stoned?
Do keep in mind. Feeling displeased doesn't necessarily mean "utterly exhasperated and performing blood curses on the dev team". All of my friends save for exactly one say that they loved the story. Regardless of any further implication, bc past that you have the usual "but it felt rushed"\"but some moments were utterly tedious". The one that didn't like the story only plays the game for the gameplay and wants nothing to do with its plot, but that's the exception, not the norm. She's... peculiar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurlstone
There are. And my personal displeasure doesn't come from a story I consider to be good, even if it has creases. It comes from racial aspects. But even so, they don't deter me from playing the race. They do interfere in my enjoyment of my character, but it just shows that I like the content enough to support it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurlstone
I know it's easy for people to point the flaws. Rarely ever is it easy to point to the stuff you like without the flaws weeding in. But admitting that is healthy. And once you accept that, then you can say "but apart from all that, my enjoyment of the game has been this". And "this" is usually positive, which is what the crushing majority of players in the community feel, regardless of whether they're exhasperated by one aspect or two of the game. As a whole, the game is enjoyable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurlstone
But just because it's enjoyable it doesn't mean it cannot be improved upon, and that should not be stifled. So many good things only exist because fans brought attention to them.
And just because some stuff needs improvement, it does not mean that it's the end of the world and that anyone who tries to rein you back in is blindly defending the devs. -
09-02-2022, 03:20 PMRufalus
Grains of salt with my complaints because I've played this game more hours than any other by far, so it must have done a lot of things right. It just hasn't grown with me and I wish I had any influence at all to shape its direction into something that continues to excite me personally. They just aren't ever going to change the formula, are they? Same format every expansion no matter what we say. Linear story dungeon every 2 levels etc, you know the routine.
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09-02-2022, 04:31 PMVelKallorIts funny you say that, because the Blizzard mods on their forums are the ones stifling discussion, banning people for comments they dont like, and in more than a few occasions, banning certain people over and over in a vendetta. Example: player is asked by a forum CM to repost a commentary by another player, Blizzard mod then bans that person for 3 days , for 'spamming".Quote:
can be attributed to devoted players rushing to stifle any negative criticism whatsoever.
The fact that he had been asked to do so wasnt exactly noted, and that "ban" was lifted AFTER 3 days with a "sorry, oops my bad.."
Blizzard is given tons of constructive feedback.............yet listens to NONE OF IT.
It is an absolute truth that, on the WOW forums, were you to write a 4 page article with useful, well considered feedback, theorycrafting..post it, come back three days later and you will find it BURIED on page three with no acknowedgement...but, hey look, on page one you will find a Blizzard CM gushing on how CUTE pink gnome hair is.
Blizzard listens to no one, wont listen, wont learn. Unlike here, their communication is NON EXISTENT.
I am all for discussion in every form, and encourage it. The claim that outside of here the story was "received badly" is utterly laughable, given the massive wave of positive, glowing reviews and we are talking virtually every gaming magazine and website.
Using that same "received poorly" claim where the playerbase is concerned, is even more ridiculous when you consider that, on my datacentre?
Ask 100 people if they enjoyed the story for Endwalker? you will get 100 separate answers. None the same.
So no, there is no "broad sweep of players" there is no "consensus"....
"Infinite are the arguments of mages" pales into obscurity next to the diversity of views from gamers worldwide. -
09-02-2022, 04:40 PMJirah
Gonna sound ironic but Can we let this post die? It does nothing but aggravate others and poses literally no purpose and isn’t even game related, just some shill angry that people have opinions.
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09-02-2022, 07:56 PMDubolomus
Sorry, but in my opinion some people confuse the concepts of "like the character" and "agree with the character". Here is an old Soviet film "Koshchei the Immortal"
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/dubi...629518_900.jpg
https://fenixclub.com/uploads/56904/...d41d8cd98f.jpg
This is Koschei and the main character. Koschei is a memorable character played by the wonderful actor Millar. Hero, in my opinion, is an ordinary one. But no matter how much I like Miller's character, I sympathize with the Hero.
Sorry for the bad English. -
09-03-2022, 04:30 AMAxxionsadly to say thats there moQuote:
Originally Posted by Kazhar
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09-03-2022, 04:57 AMKozhThe writing is already bad regardless if I want zodiark trance to be real or not /shrugQuote:
Originally Posted by ElenaRedoran
Also, good job taking it out of context.
Yeah no sh*t Sherlock. 4D chess move from you, gg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
Heh, seeing you seething and losing your chill when Lauront call you out is so funny. Thanks for the entertainment. -
09-03-2022, 05:15 AMStriker44It's not "fallacious" if it's completely true. I love how there's evidently dozens of sites that are filled with "toxic positivity" where people profusely praise the game and don't accept anything negative, there's this one site here where negativity reigns, and somehow it must be a myth that people far and away are enjoying the game. Truly impressive delusions there; just deny every shred of evidence that doesn't fit your view, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazhar
I have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. When you need to make stuff up out of thin air to attack someone, it serves only as tacit admittance that you can't actually refute them.Quote:
(Weren't you the clown who, only a few days ago talked about how 95% of players agreed with whatever your stance of the moment was?)
As mentioned, in and of itself it's meaningless. Look at the thread and you'll see the same people posting over and over, some of whom don't even agree with the title. Heck, I could make a post saying "Cats are better than dogs," go back and forth agreeing with someone about how cats are cooler, have a few people join in saying dogs are better, and say "Look! There's a whole bunch of responses in thread titled "cats are better," therefore they must be!" Yes, relying on your one thread is foolish and meaningless.Quote:
If you want to dismiss a 600 hundred page thread as a complete outlier in your stats
Of course they did. Because naturally a company will ask a question on its own forums. Blizzard gets lambasted left and right for their tendency to post on Twitter instead of their own forums. And this forum does have some useful, actual constructive criticism. I've posted some myself. Specific threads like the one you mention are a good example. It's just the exception compared to the cesspool of negativity that pervades many other threads.Quote:
Square Enix themselves certainly seem to believe that the forums represent something since in some cases (the Hrothgar hairstyle drama), they directly came here to ask the opinion of the playerbase. Not on reddit. Not on gamefaqs. Here.
And that's rich. Let's ignore all of those other websites that show EW, the Scions, etc. are very popular. Let's ignore that we say Venat has a huge fanbase of diehard supporters who accept nothing negative to be said. But let's take the one place on the internet that trends negative and claim it's the only "legitimate" one. No polls count except the ones I like! When did Trump enter the chat? -
09-03-2022, 05:21 AMAwesomeJr44Kazhar, you're not respecting his majoritah! He's in the majoritah and thus must be respected as he speaks for the great majoritah of players out there in the aether. The majoritah's word is law and we must respect his opinion! Shame on you for disrespecting the majoritah. Shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazhar
You poor majoritah, did the mean majoritah-disrespecting Hrothgar man hurt your feeling of superioritah? Don't worry, for you are the majoritah and no matter what he says, you must indeed be correct for you are the majoritah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker44
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09-03-2022, 05:25 AMLaurontThe way you describe it, a certain word comes to mind. Ah yes - cult. Those are well known for being able to assess a product on its objective merits. Though I don't think anyone would deny this game has some very cultish fans. As I am sure you can vouch for from your own personal experience in that capacity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker44