People who don't like the story will skip, complain, and leave anyway. Gating the game behind the story will not change anything in terms of skill level and knowledge of the story if they don't care about either. And that is already happening considering we even got a "very easy" option in MSQ fights. That didn't happen when I played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransu
If anything I never understood one thing: why not allow the new players the choice to jump right at the final expansion with a jumping potion, just like how wow gives a free level boost potion if you pre order? It's an option anyway, it's not like you must, but at the very least you have the option to start high and catch up with your friends and get to a proper level. There's NG+ feature now so if they want the option to revisit the story is open.
There are unlimited ways to make gating more accessible and less rigid. But instead they're selling the solution via potion. Even a friend who had to start fresh started to get tired and had to leave because he got tired of the story. And he's a big lover of stories in games, he even replayed each class in swtor...TWICE!
Edit: it's a shame they're starting to lock stuff in game but it's probably not going to be as restrictive as this game. Plus your choice still matter and it's fun to do a light-sided Sith or a dark force jedi
Why does everyone complain about STORY based MMO's?
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08-10-2022, 02:07 PMVoltyblast
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08-10-2022, 11:03 PMRansu
People who don't skip and stick it out are more likely to stick around than people who immediately skip and rush to end game. FFXIV isn't WoW, its not about rushing to end game. So yes, I feel the current system is perfectly fine. If you want to skip everything then I 100% would never recommend this game and quite frankly I don't want those kind of players playing this game. They can go back to WoW.
The clip I posted is less about skill and more about how people act when they skip. Quin knows how to raid in MMO's, but he didn't know the basic concepts of FFXIV's mechanics that even if you did rush through story you would still learn simple things like why heals would have done nothing in that scenario. Skipping generally brings that type of attitude, and leads to players less likely to stick around. -
08-10-2022, 11:17 PMTlamilaToo bad for you, those people have been playing the game this whole time and quite frankly, you don't really get to decide who plays the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransu
I'd also prefer not to have elitists who think not caring about msq is a capital crime, but here we are. We can't all get what we want.
You also don't get to decide who plays WoW (why does it have to always be WoW, some of you seem so obsessed with that game that I wonder if you should be the one playing it), though they probably appreciate your vain efforts to try and increase their revenue and playerbase. -
08-10-2022, 11:57 PMHyoMinParkDo you have any proof of this? Because it’s also true that people have quit this game well before getting to endgame due to the sheer length of the MSQ. A lot of people still fall off in ARR despite the “condensing” they did not too long ago. Skipping or not skipping is no definitive indicator if someone will stick to the game or not. Some people don’t care about the story and just want to do endgame content and that is perfectly fine. Coming from someone who loves the story enough to have multiple alts that I’ve done it on AND do NG+, I’m not offended if someone skips it. Not up to me to dictate if they do it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransu
Obligatory “this isn’t WoW”/“go back to WoW” strawman. All this nonsense “argument” does is make your post look silly.Quote:
FFXIV isn't WoW, its not about rushing to end game. So yes, I feel the current system is perfectly fine. If you want to skip everything then I 100% would never recommend this game and quite frankly I don't want those kind of players playing this game. They can go back to WoW.
And yet, as I said to you, you have players who do not skip that whine and complain about the same things. Do they get a free pass to whine at healers for not healing a OHKO or for not knowing how to play their jobs simply because they went through the MSQ without skipping? Again, you’re making a lot of assumptions without any real evidence simply because you’re biased.Quote:
The clip I posted is less about skill and more about how people act when they skip. Quin knows how to raid in MMO's, but he didn't know the basic concepts of FFXIV's mechanics that even if you did rush through story you would still learn simple things like why heals would have done nothing in that scenario. Skipping generally brings that type of attitude, and leads to players less likely to stick around.
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08-11-2022, 05:45 AMNekoMataMataSomeone else actually jumping right to the heart of the manner? Everyone clap please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larirawiel
Level skips exist, but those are for people that actually don't want the story at all. Not the people that enjoy the story, just not how the story is organized or laid out.
I played through the game twice. Once through ShB on an older account, and then once all the way from ARR to EW again. I enjoyed every cutscene, I really did. The story while it might have issues(debatable, but let's not talk about that) is still pretty good. However, this game is unfortunately very unengaging due to how a lot of the story is laid out through simple chatbox dialogue or cutscenes. There were some days that I'd essentially just get comfortable and relax 100% because the most I was going to be doing was moving between npcs(or doing the typical video game menial chores) for more dialogue/cutscenes.
Part of being a game rather than a movie is the player's involvement. One of the things that really helped this game was during and from SB onward they started putting in this fun(debatable to most people) segments where you play as other characters. To me this was a great way of getting the player involved while still telling the story about what was happening elsewhere, instead of having to have it recapped to you later via cutscene or chatbox dialogue. I can even think of some really cool places earlier on in the game where this would help out immensely(for example, during HW instead of watching Ravana fight Ysayle as Shiva you're given control of her and you get to participate that way).
But most people on this thread will likely tell me off for saying this. -
08-12-2022, 08:51 PMDubolomus
I created a new character on Alpha and now I'm taking my time going through the game. I like the story, including ARR (and I think that part of it was removed in vain). I like side quests and how stories from them sometimes appear in other quests. I love this game and enjoy it.
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08-12-2022, 09:19 PMLarirawielI played the game also almost twice for my alt on Crystal. ;) And i disagree with the threadstarter, that the players complain about the story length. I never experienced it ingame or in the forums. But i have seen some complaints about too many and too long cutscenes. But it is also tight to Endwalker and not to the previous expansions. And yes, i also felt it, that it shifted to watching instead of playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by NekoMataMata
I also like it when i can temporarily play other characters. But from my experience, i know, that many other players hate it. And it is not only a FF14 thing. In WoW, there is a dungeon called "The Oculus". At the end, you have to ride a dragon and you get completely different abilities. And you have to navigate in 3D because you are flying. It is too overhelming for many players. It happened very often, that when the DF selected "The Oculus" as a random dungeon, that two players immediately left. You got a 30 minutes penalty when you left a dungeon. But for many players it was the lesser evil than riding a dragon. Blizzard has never made such dungeons again.Quote:
Originally Posted by NekoMataMata
And in FF14 they nerfed quests like "Out in the cold" drastically. It is very easy now.
Cheers -
08-12-2022, 09:30 PMStanazolol
Too much of the story is a boring snooze fest. There are a few big pay off moments, but the vast majority of it is a slog, especially pre shadowbringers. People get in the habit of skipping and I dont blame them.
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08-12-2022, 09:48 PMvetchlmao. FF14 rushes you to endgame harder than 90% of MMOs. The MSQ will give you enough XP, free gear, and easy combat that you never need to do a sidequest, never need to unlock an optional leveling dungeon, never need to craft a piece of armor, never need to re-run an MSQ dungeon for more loot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransu
You think because you noticed in your tiny sample size of 'two MMOs that both rush you to endgame' that one rushes you slightly faster, that this is a meaningful difference worth picking sides and being snotty to people over. -
08-12-2022, 10:14 PMIreniaNot if you are a new player.Quote:
Originally Posted by vetch
I haven't played WoW, but I have looked into the new player experience quite a while back.
Now my memory is foggy, so anyone more familiar can speak up, but WoW does not care about it's legacy content at all. It's there to be blasted through to get to new content to the point once you were ready for the current expansion it would put you at the expansion start.
Like, could you imagine FF just dropping you at the start of Endwalker as soon as you hit 80? It seems absurd currently because the game loves its legacy content so much.
FF definitely does not rush the new player to max level. -
08-12-2022, 11:01 PMKazharIsn't their entire point about the fact WoW is not the only other MMO? And yet you're comparing it to WoW again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenia
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08-12-2022, 11:25 PMIrenia
I was responding to a post saying WoW and FF both rush players to the endgame. The games have their differences, and that is one of many.
EDIT: If their point is that WoW is not the only MMO to compare to, then that post kind of fails at it. -
08-13-2022, 12:03 AMvetchWoW was always designed so you could abandon quests if you weren't interested in them and move to a new zone, as long as you had the minimum level for it. That is not new; that is how WoW works. I was doing it all the way back in TBC. All that has changed is the pacing; in early WoW it would have been unheard of for a mid-level character to gain 5 levels in a day. Now it's quite easy to do it in either WoW or FF14 if you have a day off to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenia
FF14 is just as irreverent toward its legacy content, unless you think for example that smashing through Labyrinth of the Ancients with a whole raid that's 70 item levels above the release sync is somehow respecting the fight design. It absolutely discourages you from legacy side content since there's no point taking up craftskills or (re)running optional dungeons to keep your armor updated when the combat is easy and the MSQ is going to give you free gear before you ever hit a serious pain point.
You are trying to compare dissimilar design philosophies to make points about pacing instead of simply looking at the pacing. I am a new player, I started in patch 5.3, and FF14 maintains the same rushed pacing, it's just obfuscated because it's running on the parallel track of being an MSQ-driven game instead of a story-optional quest-hub game.
Sure, if you drop quests in WoW as soon as you qualify for a new xpac, then it seems like you're speeding through the game. But the FF14 equivalent would be skipping cutscenes and mashing through dialogue, and that goes through the game just as fast. In both cases you're refusing to take an interest in the plotlines, exploration, worldbuilding, NPCs, etc. that the quests offer.
Both communities rush people to endgame, too, albeit for different reasons and by different ways. Do you really think the common mantra told to new players that they should "stick it out through the early game story because it's going to get really good in ShB" somehow isn't encouraging them to skip on experiencing legacy content? -
08-13-2022, 12:29 AMStriker44But that's exactly the point about how their different at their very core...Quote:
Originally Posted by vetch
But the effects are different when you don't care about the story in a game that doesn't really care about the story vs. when you don't care about the story when the story itself is the central theme.Quote:
Sure, if you drop quests in WoW as soon as you qualify for a new xpac, then it seems like you're speeding through the game. But the FF14 equivalent would be skipping cutscenes and mashing through dialogue, and that goes through the game just as fast. In both cases you're refusing to take an interest in the plotlines, exploration, worldbuilding, NPCs, etc. that the quests offer.
Say what? The earliest I typically see people say it really picks up is HW, which is the very first expansion. And even that's quieted down a bit (not completely, but a bit) since they finally streamlined the post-ARR pre-HW sequence. I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone say the game doesn't get really good until ShB...Quote:
Both communities rush people to endgame, too, albeit for different reasons and by different ways. Do you really think the common mantra told to new players that they should "stick it out through the early game story because it's going to get really good in ShB" somehow isn't encouraging them to skip on experiencing legacy content?
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08-13-2022, 01:17 AMIrenia
So it's a pacing thing. Got it. Understandable.
And you note that WoW is quest hub and FFXIV is an MSQ game. Which is true.
My argument is that because FF is an MSQ game, it cannot rush you to endgame because it is so focused on the MSQ. The overgearing that happens is not in order for you to get to max level, it's in order to show you the next cutscene or setpiece. You are right that the level 50 alliance raids are... broken, to put it lightly, but FF is so excited about its story content that it does not care - make the MSQ longer and shove the raid series in anyway.
As far as what I recall from my research of WoW, I recall the person saying that they were experiencing old storylines on their new character (Chrombie Time, I think?) and when they got to the starting level for the current expansion the game just kicked them out. It left an impression on me because that is the game actively saying "Don't worry about that old stuff, here's the new hotness".
Whatever you can say about FFXIV, it *wants* to show you the old cutscenes and the like. -
08-13-2022, 02:23 AMAmiableApkalluI, too, started when Patch 5.something was current. Really, what you're saying is that players rush themselves and other players to the end game.Quote:
Originally Posted by vetch
There's nothing in the game itself that makes or requires you to speed through it; there's nothing in the game that prevents you from stopping to smell the proverbial roses. I cleared maps of every little side quest marker as soon as they popped up. I made it a point to do all the optional x0 dungeons before moving on to the next expac. I was still working my way through post-ShB when Endwalker dropped, and I was at peace with that.
The only thing you miss out on is going into a dungeon or trial with a full party of first-timers who know nothing of what to expect, but that's unavoidable short of organizing your life around when patches drop.