It's time to revaluate paper crown battlementors

For me it's been best to wait a wipe or two before giving advice in mentor roulettes. In the past, sprouts would either get defensive or upset with me for spoiling a mechanic if I tried to open with it. So I learned to just let them experience the fight a little, see if they figure it out, and if not I can help out. It also helps new players to have actual context for a mechanic before getting an info dump on it. If people still get defensive when you try to help after it's been a few wipes, there's really not much else you can do. I've fortunately never had anyone get hostile towards me for being a mentor though and I really only see the "mentor bad" attitude on here and reddit, never in game.

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Originally Posted by Mika_Zahard

Wtf that's NOT how adventurer in need works.

Stop spreading out misinformation.

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What did they imply that AiN does? AiN gives rewards each time the roulette is run with no limit. The rewards definitely aren't "great" but it still helps queues fill faster by rewarding the roles that are needed more. It motivates people doing the roulette for the first time for the day to play the role that is needed and gives a small reward if people want to rerun any queues.

Edit: Though, it's typically fairly incorrect. I can't tell you how many times Tank has been AiN and I've queued up for a few seconds, backed out, and queued as healer and instantly popped. I realize that it does that "check" every minute or so, but the amount that it is "wrong" like that (even when it JUST checked) is crazy.

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Originally Posted by angienessyo

For me it's been best to wait a wipe or two before giving advice in mentor roulettes. In the past, sprouts would either get defensive or upset with me for spoiling a mechanic if I tried to open with it. So I learned to just let them experience the fight a little, see if they figure it out, and if not I can help out. It also helps new players to have actual context for a mechanic before getting an info dump on it. If people still get defensive when you try to help after it's been a few wipes, there's really not much else you can do. I've fortunately never had anyone get hostile towards me for being a mentor though and I really only see the "mentor bad" attitude on here and reddit, never in game.

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I've never been in any mentor roulette and I loathe to imagine myself doing it. But my approach is very similar to yours: wait for $hit hits the fan before giving tips, because at least at that point the wipe informs them that their initial approach does not work and require abit of assistance.

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Originally Posted by Mika_Zahard

Wtf that's NOT how adventurer in need works.

Stop spreading out misinformation.

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If Adventurer in Need isn't intended to fill queues faster, what purpose do you think it serves?

Stop being dumb. Trying to fill queues faster is exactly why Adventurer in Need exists. The random match algorithm notices that X role is the last to be filled in the parties created. It assigns that role to Adventurer in Need to encourage more players to queue in that role.

Because the algorithm seems to update only once every 5 minutes, a lot of time it appears to be "wrong" about what's needed. Actually it had been correct at the time of the last update and it's so effective that players switched to that role, making a different role the now needed role. A lot of times when I'm ready to queue, I'll just use the other role (healer if tank listed, tank if healer listed) knowing there's a good chance it will have a faster queue because too many are trying to get the bonus. I don't really care about the bonus, I just want the faster queue.

Mentor roulette is far less effective in filling queues because not enough mentors actually make use of it.

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Originally Posted by Mika_Zahard

Wtf that's NOT how adventurer in need works.

Stop spreading out misinformation.

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How does it work then?

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

How does it work then?

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It dosen't work by filling EX, savage, or any other black listed content, and as that's the function of mentor roulette, it is not a replacement.

Adventurer in need helps remove congestion from an existing roulette by saying, what was in need, when this function ran, about every 5 minutes. (I've been told if there is nothing "in need" it picks randomly, I don't know how to test this, so I say it as a side comment without confirmation or denial).

So you still need both.

AiN in order to make existing roulettes work better, and mentor to fill in the intentional gaps in the other roulettes, and as a last desperate failsafe. (and mr does gain from AiN as well).

Lets look at one of the points of overlap, guildhest roulette. Que for 10 or latter in the guildhests, and ask folks if they came in from guildhest or mentor, check the results. Look at the rewards for guildhest roulette, and the AiN for it. Think about what you COULD end up in if it goes to the bad, yes, those 3.

Most people won't que into Guildhest because of that risk, even if it's AiN, then it falls back to mentor, where it's so MILD and TAME that folks are glad to get it.

alright, why not this way

Battle mentor but for each class, like Tank Mentor, Healer Mentor, And (range, melee, caster) DPS Mentor. Make them separate with same requirement, 400 instanced dungeons and 25 ex trial (current expansion) for each classes, and 1500 commendations. And if you do get all of them, you will get the Battle Mentor like what we have now.

People expecting Mentors to be these all around perfect players who know about all the mechanics in all the content perfectly and can always perform perfectly in all of them all the time just make me laugh.

I wonder what the Japanese players think of all this?

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Originally Posted by LaughingBanana

People expecting Mentors to be these all around perfect players who know about all the mechanics in all the content perfectly and can always perform perfectly in all of them all the time just make me laugh.

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I don't think most people are expecting mentors to be perfect players.

But we do expect them to be helpful to the best of their ability. A mentor who's a WHM but can't be bothered to heal in an Alliance raid (which I saw the other day, people in the party kept dying because they were too busy making noise in chat as they spammed stone to heal anyone) is not being helpful to the best of their ability.

Perhaps the situation is better on the JP worlds. On the NA worlds, it's a mess.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I don't think most people are expecting mentors to be perfect players.

But we do expect them to be helpful to the best of their ability. A mentor who's a WHM but can't be bothered to heal in an Alliance raid (which I saw the other day, people in the party kept dying because they were too busy making noise in chat as they spammed stone to heal anyone) is not being helpful to the best of their ability.

Perhaps the situation is better on the JP worlds. On the NA worlds, it's a mess.

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yeah well, the suggested requirement won't help with that.
It's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of attitude.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If Adventurer in Need isn't intended to fill queues faster, what purpose do you think it serves?

Stop being dumb. Trying to fill queues faster is exactly why Adventurer in Need exists. The random match algorithm notices that X role is the last to be filled in the parties created. It assigns that role to Adventurer in Need to encourage more players to queue in that role.

Because the algorithm seems to update only once every 5 minutes, a lot of time it appears to be "wrong" about what's needed. Actually it had been correct at the time of the last update and it's so effective that players switched to that role, making a different role the now needed role. A lot of times when I'm ready to queue, I'll just use the other role (healer if tank listed, tank if healer listed) knowing there's a good chance it will have a faster queue because too many are trying to get the bonus. I don't really care about the bonus, I just want the faster queue.

Mentor roulette is far less effective in filling queues because not enough mentors actually make use of it.

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You're the one being foolish by not realizing the issue. As the hroth mentioned below, the only roulette that actually can fill the spot you need is MENTOR ROULETTE, which is designed for that.

You can get someone ditching Orbonne as soon as it pops, and i can get a prompt to AiN as Tank. But guess what? Unless im 70 and already have it unlocked, i wont be placed there, no matter how much in need it is. Unlike Mentor Roulette, which will place you there as in order to queue for it, you need to be on a specific level and have EVERY DUTY UNLOCKED.

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Originally Posted by Chekopacheko

Unfortunately no matter what a mentor do is gonna be perceived as bad most of the times. I have been called rude and/or yelled at for giving "unsolicited advice", even though we had already wipe twice to the same boss mechanic, so now i rather remain silent unless someone actually ask for help/advice, not ideal but unfortunately that's the way it is :/

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it's going to come off as rude and know it all if someone just starts instructing without anyone asking, even if the group is having trouble. It can especially be problematic if there's already stress from failed tries.. I usually just say something like "Does anyone need/want me to explain anything?" and then they can choose to ask if they need it. This lets the person be in control of whether they want instruction or not. If someone feels in control, they will feel more comfortable and confident in asking questions. By asking, it also sets up an environment that we're there to help and support. So people respond to that more positively. There is the random group that doesn't respond, but then we just keep trying and usually get it. Sometimes people are shy to speak up or they may be on console. Usually I get someone who asks and I explain what we're having issues with and we're good.

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Originally Posted by Mika_Zahard

You're the one being foolish by not realizing the issue. As the hroth mentioned below, the only roulette that actually can fill the spot you need is MENTOR ROULETTE, which is designed for that.

You can get someone ditching Orbonne as soon as it pops, and i can get a prompt to AiN as Tank. But guess what? Unless im 70 and already have it unlocked, i wont be placed there, no matter how much in need it is. Unlike Mentor Roulette, which will place you there as in order to queue for it, you need to be on a specific level and have EVERY DUTY UNLOCKED.

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Remove mentor roulette, add an omni roulette for everyone, put the same reward as mentor roulette problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

Remove mentor roulette, add an omni roulette for everyone, put the same reward as mentor roulette problem solved.

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so basically remove every shed of requirement for anyone to be a mentor? cool. Let's do it

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I've never been in any mentor roulette and I loathe to imagine myself doing it. But my approach is very similar to yours: wait for $hit hits the fan before giving tips, because at least at that point the wipe informs them that their initial approach does not work and require abit of assistance.

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From my experience, if its a macro, i wouldnt care anyway. Since even with such info, getting used to the mechanics can take time. And at least it can give you important cueues.

The first time garuda for me, no one knew the mechanics, and after 4 wipes without any chance at the phase where the rocks matter, a mentor finaly joined in and explained the mechanics. 3 attempts later we already managed to beat it. If we would have known how those rocks worked. it might have saved several wipes there. But even then i wouldnt expect instant beating it (note, it took 2 attempts to get through that even after we knew what to do).

Expert duties can be vicious to new players. And anyone that already knows those mechanics generaly will respect those explain macros. Since it also saves them time by assisting the newer players. Time spent dead (which as newer player in those duties is common) is excelent spent reading such info.

Those who show salt will always do that anyway. It doesnt matter if you are a mentor or not.

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Originally Posted by hagare

so basically remove every shed of requirement for anyone to be a mentor? cool. Let's do it

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Did you mean responsibility?

Mentors do other things like answer questions about the game which is something I find far more important than being a warm body. There's a benefit for a sprout if they can get a mentor to queue with them. I much prefer the model where people ask for help from people willing to help. That solves or should solve the issue of people not being receptive to advice.

Mentor Roulette is nothing more than a backfill queue and IMO should be decoupled from mentor status. At a bare minimum it'll remove one of the wrong reasons (Astrope) people become mentors. I've seen so many gloat posts here and elsewhere about never having to do Mentor Roulette again.

Heck, I'd even put a twist on it. To register for the duty you must select one job for each trinity role: Tank, Healer, DPS. When the queue pops you need to switch or be switched to the corresponding job.

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Originally Posted by GeminiReed

Did you mean responsibility?

Mentors do other things like answer questions about the game which is something I find far more important than being a warm body. There's a benefit for a sprout if they can get a mentor to queue with them. I much prefer the model where people ask for help from people willing to help. That solves or should solve the issue of people not being receptive to advice.

Mentor Roulette is nothing more than a backfill queue and IMO should be decoupled from mentor status. At a bare minimum it'll remove one of the wrong reasons (Astrope) people become mentors. I've seen so many gloat posts here and elsewhere about never having to do Mentor Roulette again.

Heck, I'd even put a twist on it. To register for the duty you must select one job for each trinity role: Tank, Healer, DPS. When the queue pops you need to switch or be switched to the corresponding job.

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no, requirement.
Making everyone able to access an "omni dungeon" that replaces mentor dungeon that is accessible by everyone means you don't have to do anything to be a mentor, which means EVERYONE'S a mentor.
Your suggestion is even better. Everyone that's leveled every job to 90 by fate leveling can now participate without being a mentor!.
again, LET'S DO IT!

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Originally Posted by Mika_Zahard

You're the one being foolish by not realizing the issue. As the hroth mentioned below, the only roulette that actually can fill the spot you need is MENTOR ROULETTE, which is designed for that.

You can get someone ditching Orbonne as soon as it pops, and i can get a prompt to AiN as Tank. But guess what? Unless im 70 and already have it unlocked, i wont be placed there, no matter how much in need it is. Unlike Mentor Roulette, which will place you there as in order to queue for it, you need to be on a specific level and have EVERY DUTY UNLOCKED.

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I see where the problem is coming from now.

I was talking about filling queues faster - you know, what players enter when they QUEUE for a duty.

You're talking about filling Party in Progress - you know, where players have already made it past the QUEUE only to have a party member leave for whatever reasons.

You're right that Mentor Roulette fills Party in Progress. That's because for some stupid reason SE decided to only match players queueing for their roulettes to fresh parties instead of parties in progress unless they have enabled Join Party in Progress. They should have done it the other way around for roulettes (not direct queues) and match players to parties in progress when there's a party needing a new member.

Considering how often mentors don't have a clue what they're doing or are being less than helpful even when they do, SE would be better off making Mentor Roulette available to all players who have unlocked every duty instead of limiting it to those with bloated egos that think they're special for having a paper crown. That would get the parties in progress filled even faster.

Until SE decides to make such a change, there are normal players who do enable Join Party in Progress because they either like to help out groups that are struggling or because they feel they get through their roulettes a bit quicker by using it (especially helpful for DPS). No paper crown needed. I can't claim I use it all the time but I have and will continue to do it on occasion.

No one cares that you've unlocked all the duties required for mentor roulette because most players do it automatically as they reach level cap and as new content gets released. You're not special for doing that.

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Originally Posted by GeminiReed

Did you mean responsibility?

Mentors do other things like answer questions about the game which is something I find far more important than being a warm body. There's a benefit for a sprout if they can get a mentor to queue with them. I much prefer the model where people ask for help from people willing to help. That solves or should solve the issue of people not being receptive to advice.

Mentor Roulette is nothing more than a backfill queue and IMO should be decoupled from mentor status. At a bare minimum it'll remove one of the wrong reasons (Astrope) people become mentors. I've seen so many gloat posts here and elsewhere about never having to do Mentor Roulette again.

Heck, I'd even put a twist on it. To register for the duty you must select one job for each trinity role: Tank, Healer, DPS. When the queue pops you need to switch or be switched to the corresponding job.

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For so long I have wanted the ability to swap to missing roles in a dungeon as a mentor. If my group drops a tank and I can play tank then just let me jump to tank. I've actually had to leave and attempt to rejoin as the intended role in order to help the team but for some reason FFXIV prioritises new parties instead of existing ones when I know for a fact existing ones are waiting to be filled.

As for never having to do the roulette again maybe for a lot of people sure but at least they completed 2000 instances helping people whether they themselves were helpful or not. Personally I'm on almost 1000/2000 on my alt just because I love the roulette so much. It's the only place you can do EX trial roulette which in my opinion is the best thing possible I can get in a mentor roulette. Everyone can do Guildhests / Dungeons / Normal Trials but a lot of people don't actually know the mechanics for EX Trials, especially those after ARR.

Edit: Jojoya - "You're talking about filling Party in Progress - you know, where players have already made it past the QUEUE only to have a party member leave for whatever reasons."

Not at all, Mentors actually fill any queue that is missing people whether it is in progress or not, it is the single most useful thing square has ever done to help congestion in this game. I most certainly do not want to go back to the time before Mentor roulette was a thing and DPS queues were literally 30 minutes at best. Queing as any role now is pretty chill as the queue times are much shorter, even more now that the game has so many more new players coming in needing old content filled.

Adventurer in need is also good, but it's effect simply has nothing on what Mentor roulette has done for the game

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Originally Posted by Asako

Adventurer in need is also good, but it's effect simply has nothing on what Mentor roulette has done for the game

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You mean the increased toxicity from arrogant mentors only there for the reward and not because they're actually interested in helping other players?

Again, the best effect would be if SE set the default for roulettes so it would fill parties in progress first before forming new parties. Someone doesn't have to be a mentor or even be highly skilled to be the warm body to fill an abandoned spot in any of the duties with the exception of EX trials. Considering mentors seem to have made it a habit to abandon EX trials if that's where roulette puts them, they're not much use there.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You mean the increased toxicity from arrogant mentors only there for the reward and not because they're actually interested in helping other players?

Again, the best effect would be if SE set the default for roulettes so it would fill parties in progress first before forming new parties. Someone doesn't have to be a mentor or even be highly skilled to be the warm body to fill an abandoned spot in any of the duties with the exception of EX trials. Considering mentors seem to have made it a habit to abandon EX trials if that's where roulette puts them, they're not much use there.

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then you can help fix the problem.
By being a mentor, if you aren't yet.
You want to help fight against bad mentors?
Be a good mentor. Be an example that inspires other people to want to be like you.

Oh boy idk how they can fix this tbh.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You mean the increased toxicity from arrogant mentors only there for the reward and not because they're actually interested in helping other players?

Again, the best effect would be if SE set the default for roulettes so it would fill parties in progress first before forming new parties. Someone doesn't have to be a mentor or even be highly skilled to be the warm body to fill an abandoned spot in any of the duties with the exception of EX trials. Considering mentors seem to have made it a habit to abandon EX trials if that's where roulette puts them, they're not much use there.

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You talk as if there isn’t a massive problem of people who ignore or are actively hostile to advice, your average EX trial in DF will have someone just pull the boss before you can explain anything

As for offering advice in the 3700 mentor roulettes I have collected data from I encountered 1254 zero DPS healers, for every one I sent the same thing “hey x just to let you know when the party doesn’t need immediate healing you can throw out a damage spell or two it can also make your job easier”, if those 1254 statements I got
-682 silence with no change to gameplay
-344 open hostility, passive aggressiveness or dropping from the instance with no change to playstyle
-125 silence with improvement to gameplay
-103 positive responses with positive change to gameplay

So around 18% of players improved as a response to the most benign advice I could possibly offer, it’s not mentors fault that the playerbase is so unwilling to accept any form of advice or criticism and instead labels everything as toxic

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Originally Posted by Dreamsoap

I am a mentor and I don't respect mentors. I just witnessed one tell sprouts to take clemency, divine veil and cover off their bar because they're "useless." I really like the system but I wish it could be reformed in some way.

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Like I mean lack of context but I understand their intent even if it’s a really flawed way to discuss it with sprouts who may not know, cover is functionally useless outside of the 82 trait that gives it a weak regen, divine veil is a very wonky tool even if it’s useful, like I know what divine veil works, if I see a PLD put it up I’m not gonna GCD heal just to activate it, and clemency is a tool for basically only if the healer is dead

So yeah that mentor is wrong but more so because they didn’t provide the context sprouts need, not because the advice is genuinely bad

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Originally Posted by hagare

Be a good mentor. Be an example that inspires other people to want to be like you.

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I bloody tried. But when people argue against you in Novice Network about the dumbest things just to confuse a sprout... or when people pick on semanthics because "oh your explanation was too vague\too broad, you're not referring to this one niche application" despite the fact that it's niche for a reason and likely only factors in when the sprout dives into Savage... which they clearly won't for a while given they're A LEVEL 11 MARAUDER WITH NOTHING ELSE LEVELLED UP...

Just... God, Novice Network can either be extremely good and well-rounded or people just talk out of their netherrealms. When I see people discredit Ninja entirely just because Forked\Fleeting got split... Suddenly we have a mentor that just went around telling people Ninja wasn't good at all and that sprouts shouldn't try it!

Oh and that's not even getting to the guys who if they take issue with you in any way will be petty and mass-report for no reason. Didn't happen to me, but jesus it happened to people I knew there and it was just dumb.

I can't inspire anyone if it's just going to be an echo chamber for the most nonsensical stuff possible. More often than not it's mentors vs mentors on some really awkward takes that just end up confusing the poor sprout who asked a simple question.
I mentored some sprouts in private, at least the ones who shared a world with me and clearly wanted to learn, and those turned out just fine. Some even beat Savage a month after. When I realized I didn't need to have a crown to do that, I just bailed.

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Originally Posted by Dreamsoap

Telling people to take their skills off their bar isn't something that you need context for to have nuance.

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I mean I would genuinely suggest sprouts take cover off their bar pre 82, it is a skill that got all its old uses ripped out, but like I said the mentor is wrong but you could have just as easily provided extra context because while their advice is flawed it’s based on a sound principle

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Originally Posted by Dreamsoap

Telling people to take their skills off their bar isn't something that you need context for because there's no nuance to have.

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Would you believe me if I told you that telling sprouts on novice network to read their tooltips was a point of contrition between mentors? Because it was....
Wasn't even to reprimand anyone or doing so out of frustration, just a footnote after a question was asked. And it was something along the lines of "Guys, this is for all of you now, but really try to read what your skills do. Because sometimes skills have extra effects that you're not aware of". Cue people agreeing, and then some stooges hard disagreeing, saying we shouldn't tell sprouts what to do. And then it just devolved into "he said, she said".

And then people bring up the ToS! FUN.

So if you told me that people argued over whether or not removing actually useless\overly-niche skills off their hotbars (provided an explanation is given) would cause an argument, I'd believe you no questions asked.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Like I mean lack of context but I understand their intent even if it’s a really flawed way to discuss it with sprouts who may not know, cover is functionally useless outside of the 82 trait that gives it a weak regen, divine veil is a very wonky tool even if it’s useful, like I know what divine veil works, if I see a PLD put it up I’m not gonna GCD heal just to activate it, and clemency is a tool for basically only if the healer is dead

So yeah that mentor is wrong but more so because they didn’t provide the context sprouts need, not because the advice is genuinely bad

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Saying Cover is useless is stupid. It's very situational, but far from useless.
Divine Veil is a great skill, and you don't need to specifically cast to activate it, it will generally get activated by healers normal healing or after a certain level by your normal rotation.
Clemency is less useful, but healer being dead happens more oftent han people would like tbh.
I heard the other day someone also say they never bothered to unlock Passage of Arms cause it's not strictly needed.
At that point, if people stop using all these skills Paladin is just a lame tank with less personal mitigations than the other tanks and no group-wide mitigations whatsoever, what's even the point of playing it?

If anything an actually good mentor should explain how to use them, this one sounds very much not like mentor material. Which of course doens't mean all mentors are bad, just that the selction is poor and there are rotten apples in the bunch.

I remember the people who usually say Cover is useless is people who only ever do raiding, but there is a lot of other content like dungeons where you can save people, such as a healer, from dying. Clemency isn't just useful when a healer is dead, but when a healer is about to die and it doesn't look like they will save themselves, or to reduce pressure on them when they are overwhelmed from a raise with low MP and probably going to let half the DPS die. I've used it when a healer is trapped in ice and when an aoe cast is about to kill them. In that case it caused a savage run to clear because the aoe cast didn't kill them. I've used it when an aoe cast is about to kill the last surviving SMN or RDM so they can raise as well.

I use Divine Veil all of the time and the level 90 magic attacks activate it because they have heals. You can use Divine Veil to make the healer even more useless in the latest dungeon because it has a heal in it now. It helps when people have vuln stacks or in the Akh Morn type attacks that the latest extremes have.

I actually combine Passage of Arms with Reprisal and Divine Veil to create significant mitigation against Akh Morns, which prevents wipes when healers or party members are dead or have vuln stacks.

Wait, people say Nascent Flash is awesome but then also might have a chance of agreeing Cover sucks? I don't get it.

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

Wait, people say Nascent Flash is awesome but then also might have a chance of agreeing Cover sucks? I don't get it.

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how are those two comparable?
if anything Nascent flash should be compared to intervention.

They should remove all rewards for becoming a mentor outside of having the crown by your name. People want to be a mentor, and are terrible thus giving mentors overall a bad name, because they just want to grind out the roulette for the mount.

I think if you remove any exclusive rewards you would have most people stop being mentors entirely. Just leave it with the requirements they have now, no rewards, and only the people who want to genuinely help others will take it on. Of course there would be outliers, but for the most part I think this solution would be the better option. No achievements or special titles either. Only the crown icon.

And while you\\'re at it, release the exclusive mount through something else so everyone can now have it be it through content in game or put it on the mogstation. Unless SE wants to have GMs screening all mentors every so often there\\'s no way to really weed out the bad actors entirely. They should, however, have a zero tolerance policy with harassment and ban any and all people found to be harassing others from ever being able to become a mentor again: and make it a service account based action so these people can\\'t just turn to an alt to get around it.

I\\'ve lost count of the number of mentors who leave instances when things don\\'t go their way or do something crummy that leaves a bad taste in everyone\\'s mouth. I also don\\'t want only end game players able to do savage content to be the only one\\'s allowed to become mentors. There\\'s a bunch of these people, and other end game players, who haven\\'t touched any content that isn\\'t current in literal months and don\\'t know the changes to old content and/or don\\'t have the desire to participate in said content. Again, I know this isn\\'t everyone, but I don\\'t think savage raiders are the only ones who know how to play a class well.

The best mentors I\\'ve ever known have been the one\\'s who don\\'t take everything so seriously, enjoy all content (not just end game stuff), and laugh things off when instances take "too long" to complete, and are just friendly and happy to play with others and help where needed.

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Originally Posted by hagare

how are those two comparable?
if anything Nascent flash should be compared to intervention.

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Okay, my mistake.

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Originally Posted by Zel_Zackarias

They should remove all rewards for becoming a mentor outside of having the crown by your name. People want to be a mentor, and are terrible thus giving mentors overall a bad name, because they just want to grind out the roulette for the mount.

I think if you remove any exclusive rewards you would have most people stop being mentors entirely. Just leave it with the requirements they have now, no rewards, and only the people who want to genuinely help others will take it on. Of course there would be outliers, but for the most part I think this solution would be the better option. No achievements or special titles either. Only the crown icon.

And while you\\'re at it, release the exclusive mount through something else so everyone can now have it be it through content in game or put it on the mogstation. Unless SE wants to have GMs screening all mentors every so often there\\'s no way to really weed out the bad actors entirely. They should, however, have a zero tolerance policy with harassment and ban any and all people found to be harassing others from ever being able to become a mentor again: and make it a service account based action so these people can\\'t just turn to an alt to get around it.

I\\'ve lost count of the number of mentors who leave instances when things don\\'t go their way or do something crummy that leaves a bad taste in everyone\\'s mouth. I also don\\'t want only end game players able to do savage content to be the only one\\'s allowed to become mentors. There\\'s a bunch of these people, and other end game players, who haven\\'t touched any content that isn\\'t current in literal months and don\\'t know the changes to old content and/or don\\'t have the desire to participate in said content. Again, I know this isn\\'t everyone, but I don\\'t think savage raiders are the only ones who know how to play a class well.

The best mentors I\\'ve ever known have been the one\\'s who don\\'t take everything so seriously, enjoy all content (not just end game stuff), and laugh things off when instances take "too long" to complete, and are just friendly and happy to play with others and help where needed.

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I mean you can’t expect mentors to just sit in certain instances when people aren’t taking their advice or attempting to improve in any meaningful way, like extremes in the mentor roulette, too many times you attempt to give advice and people will either just pull for no reason or say something along the lines of “just shut up and Pull”, you can’t hold mentors into roulettes against their will, they are players as well and offer their time to fill the gaps left by the horrible way this game teaches you how to play

Mentorship is just as flawed due to the communities opposition to accepting advice as it is because of actual bad mentors

The only thing I use mentor crown for is to help friends that are new gain bonus exp. Which can be done with the crafting mentor. Occasionally if I get bored I will go into the NN and kick people being weird.

There is no use for the mentor system really.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

I heard the other day someone also say they never bothered to unlock Passage of Arms cause it's not strictly needed.

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... WHAT

Whoever that person was is just... lol. It's such a good ability.

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Originally Posted by Veranolth

... WHAT

Whoever that person was is just... lol. It's such a good ability.

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And it looks awesome too!

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You mean the increased toxicity from arrogant mentors only there for the reward and not because they're actually interested in helping other players?

Again, the best effect would be if SE set the default for roulettes so it would fill parties in progress first before forming new parties. Someone doesn't have to be a mentor or even be highly skilled to be the warm body to fill an abandoned spot in any of the duties with the exception of EX trials. Considering mentors seem to have made it a habit to abandon EX trials if that's where roulette puts them, they're not much use there.

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What Toxicity from aggorgant mentors? I have done over 3000 mentor roulettes, 2000+ on my main and 1000+ on one of my alts and the only people I ever see getting upset is non mentors. What data center are you on that is so toxic that you are running into these people constantly. Over on light most mentors are either helpful or just quiet. Sure a lot of the mentors aren't quite knowledgeable when it comes to things like Extreme primals but they can all clear it. I have still yet to disband a single Extreme primal in mentor roulette. I know them all like the back of my hand and can quickly whip up macros for people struggling.

As a mentor myself I will never give out any information on the fight until we have wiped a few times. Just because I can clear the fight doesn't mean I have to spoil the fight for others and I would rather see the team try and pick up on mechanics first before outright saying right lads here's the scoop.

It really seems you have an issue with mentors and toxicity on your server. You should take a spin over to light and chill out here.

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Originally Posted by Asako

What Toxicity from aggorgant mentors? I have done over 3000 mentor roulettes, 2000+ on my main and 1000+ on one of my alts and the only people I ever see getting upset is non mentors.

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Seriously, the most toxicity i see towards mentors is from the forum itself

As a mentor who has done as well 2k+ mentor roulettes there's have been few instances where mentors where toxic towards other players, there will always be bad apples out there of course, but as far as i can tell the toxicity level is nowhere as near as some people say it is.