Glamour restrictions: a hinderance to creativity

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Originally Posted by Ransu

While I understand the sentiment for certain sets, I'm generally glad that they have restrictions on glam. The last thing I want to see is casters walking around in heavy armor. It would look dumb.

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But tanks wearing bikini is okay ? They should either uphold the restrictions or remove them.

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Originally Posted by Siddiax

But tanks wearing bikini is okay ? They should either uphold the restrictions or remove them.

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I'm not a fan of that either honestly.

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Originally Posted by Siddiax

But tanks wearing bikini is okay ?

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Sure is. Characters who are nigh-invulnerable even naked are common in fiction.
Look at martial arts movies, for example, as well as anime, manga, comic books, and video games.

Spell casters wearing armor is less common, and was not allowed in many RPGs as far back as the original D&D.

Ok, so it seems we have people trying to claim bikinis have a right to exist as proper tank armor. Can't say I'm too surprised.

Now what about the chocobo/namazu/pig glams? :3

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Originally Posted by Ransu

I'm not a fan of that either honestly.

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Cool, but Square Enix clearly are.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Sure is. Characters who are nigh-invulnerable even naked are common in fiction.
Look at martial arts movies, for example, as well as anime, manga, comic books, and video games.

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That's rather hypocritical. It's okay for someone to be "nigh-invulnerable" if naked, but a mage can't put on a heavier armor set ? Let's not forget about the fact that right now there's plenty of outfits that can make a healer and a tank look absolutely identical.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Spell casters wearing armor is less common, and was not allowed in many RPGs as far back as the original D&D.

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So we should base everything on the original D&D from almost 50 years ago ? As far as I know, Mages in D&D couldn't wear a Frog or Chicken suit either. Also, armored casters exist in many fictional works, even more so in RPG games (i.e. Souls/Elder Scrolls/Divinity etc.)

Again, this is ignoring the fact that most armor sets don't even follow the rules they established early on in the game, where armor silhouttes would fit the roles they were made for.

Tbh I would be cool if they restricted gear to more classical norms tied to old school D&D.

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Originally Posted by Siddiax

So we should base everything on the original D&D from almost 50 years ago ?

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Whether we should "base everything on the original D&D" or not, just about every RPG is.

The point is: near-naked combatants (including "tanks") is a norm in lots of fiction and gaming, as are role-restrictions on clothing/armor. The devs have chosen to conform with those norms, and I image much of the player base is accustomed to them.
There's nothing inconsistent or hypocritical about it.

Your argument that those norms make no sense seems based on real life, i.e.: you need armor to resist damage.
But there is no reason a game with magic and flying pigs in it needs to care about what works in "real life."

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Tbh I would be cool if they restricted gear to more classical norms tied to old school D&D.

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AF gear already does that. Unless you expect them to design a unique set for each job for each raid/dungeon ? I'm all for that but it's never going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

The devs have chosen to conform with those norms, and I image much of the player base is accustomed to them.
There's nothing inconsistent or hypocritical about it.

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They haven't chosen to conform with anything. Gear appearance has to be the most incosistent thing in the entire game. We wouldn't have such a high amount of cross-role gear/nigh-identical sets if they wanted to keep everything restricted. If they cannot uphold the rules they've set years ago, they should just remove them.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Your argument that those norms make no sense seems based on real life, i.e.: you need armor to resist damage.
But there is no reason a game with magic and flying pigs in it needs to care about what works in "real life."

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Lmao this is hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I mistook it, in fact is the Fending set that is not from anything from Syrcus Tower and apparently is loosely themed after the boss of another raid.

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Isn't it based on Phlegethon from Labyrinth of the Ancients? Whose model also appears as some of the trash mobs between Scylla and Glasya?

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Originally Posted by Siddiax

If they cannot uphold the rules they've set years ago, they should just remove them.

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You're advocating, it seems, for a particular change in the rules: their elimination.
And now you claim that's the only change in the rules they "should" make.
That's complete nonsense.

It's never been "the original way or nothing" in this game, not for anything.
SE has the right -- yes, the right, as owners of this game -- to evolve it as it suits them, as they have been with every patch. That's true for every aspect of this game, including gear and glamour.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

You're advocating, it seems, for a particular change in the rules: their elimination.
And now you claim that's the only change in the rules they "should" make.
That's complete nonsense.

It's never been "the original way or nothing" in this game, not for anything.
SE has the right -- yes, the right, as owners of this game -- to evolve it as it suits them, as they have been with every patch. That's true for every aspect of this game, including gear and glamour.

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well damn i guess that means theres no point in having a forum then we cant tell square enix what to do. pack it up boys

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

You're advocating, it seems, for a particular change in the rules: their elimination.
And now you claim that's the only change in the rules they "should" make.
That's complete nonsense.

It's never been "the original way or nothing" in this game, not for anything.
SE has the right -- yes, the right, as owners of this game -- to evolve it as it suits them, as they have been with every patch. That's true for every aspect of this game, including gear and glamour.

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Oh boy, here's this crap again. Square Enix aren't making a game for themselves. They're literally selling a product and I, as a paying customer, have the right to make a suggestion on the public forums. If it weren't for suggestions, the game would be in an entirely different state - ARR most likely wouldn't have been a thing.

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Originally Posted by Siddiax

AF gear already does that. Unless you expect them to design a unique set for each job for each raid/dungeon ? I'm all for that but it's never going to happen.



They haven't chosen to conform with anything. Gear appearance has to be the most incosistent thing in the entire game. We wouldn't have such a high amount of cross-role gear/nigh-identical sets if they wanted to keep everything restricted. If they cannot uphold the rules they've set years ago, they should just remove them.



Lmao this is hilarious.

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I would much rather they do that verse lifting all restrictions. Honestly after all these years I doubt they will remove restrictions either so it does appear both sides are left wanting. At the very least the more restrictions side can request the restrictions we currently have stay.

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Originally Posted by Siddiax

Square Enix [is] selling a product and I, as a paying customer, have the right to make a suggestion on the public forums.

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I never said you couldn't make suggestions. I just said your suggestion was nonsense.
And actually, as a legal point, you don't even have "the right" to post to the forums, much less make suggestions here: SE could ban you at any time and you'd have no recourse.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

well damn i guess that means theres no point in having a forum then we cant tell square enix what to do. pack it up boys

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You honestly thought you could ever "tell square enix what to do"? Here or anywhere?
I got news for you: outside of governments, SE's execs, and SE's major shareholders, none of us can tell SE what to do.

Feel free to make suggestions though. But expect most of them to be ignored, just as a matter of statistics given the volume of different and often conflicting suggestions people make.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

I never said you couldn't make suggestions. I just said your suggestion was nonsense.
And actually, as a legal point, you don't even have "the right" to post to the forums, much less make suggestions here: SE could ban you at any time and you'd have no recourse.


You honestly thought you could ever "tell square enix what to do"? Here or anywhere?
I got news for you: outside of governments, SE's execs, and SE's major shareholders, none of us can tell SE what to do.

Feel free to make suggestions though. But expect most of them to be ignored, just as a matter of statistics given the volume of different and often conflicting suggestions people make.

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Alright, not gonna lie I was fully convinced you were being serious until this post.

I've made the same thread years ago, multiple times even. With full explanations and reasoning for why restrictions shouldn't exist. They literally don't care.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-glamour-armor

They also won't even update any of the "horns" items for them to be dyeable.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...rchaeodemon%29

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Originally Posted by zeth07

I've made the same thread years ago, multiple times even. With full explanations and reasoning for why restrictions shouldn't exist. They literally don't care.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-glamour-armor

They also won't even update any of the "horns" items for them to be dyeable.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...rchaeodemon%29

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This man gets it, some suggestions are akin to screaming into a void, and it is slightly entitled to think this time my suggestion will spark change! Maybe I am just dumb and jaded.

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Originally Posted by zeth07

I've made the same thread years ago, multiple times even. With full explanations and reasoning for why restrictions shouldn't exist. They literally don't care.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-glamour-armor

They also won't even update any of the "horns" items for them to be dyeable.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...rchaeodemon%29

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A statement from 4 years ago can change. I'm not keeping track of it but its highly likely that on the span of XIV's lifetime so far YP changed his mind about stuff.

Even if from a direction standpoint he says something like "Kaiten is not needed today", there's no guarantee that on the next expansion he'll change his mind and re-introduce the action.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Maybe I am just dumb

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https://c.tenor.com/fVYKDpqH-jgAAAAC/tenor.gif

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

https://c.tenor.com/fVYKDpqH-jgAAAAC/tenor.gif

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:P Hey buddy, how are you?

Quick question what exactly do your posts add to the thread? Weren't you getting my case before cause my posts did not add anything and was just present to argue? Where do your posts fall on that spectrum?

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

You honestly thought you could ever "tell square enix what to do"? Here or anywhere?

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Yes. Unironically.

Like when we told them to add femroes. Or when we told them to fix pvp. Or the legacy dungeons. Or preatorium. Or giving hrothgar their ears back. Theres actually quite a few off the top of my head.
Thats what a forum is for my dude.

I do find this situation disappointing personally.

I mean, I absolutely ADORE the Panthean Casting set when am playing as a Red Mage and would love to be able to wear that set whilst playing as Bard.

There is really no reason to not allow pieces of gear to be used as Glamour for any job. Obviously keep the actual item locked to the job that it was made for, but once in the Glamour Dresser it should be able to be used across all classes in glamour plates. The argument that "Black Mages shouldn't be in full armor" died a long long time ago when the devs introduced joke glams and bikinis. You can't run a roulette without multiple people going against their job identity in how they make their glams, and that's how it should be. People should be able to choose how they want their characters to look and express their jobs, what if there was a BLM who really wanted full plate armor? What's so bad about that when you can literally be in a chicken suit.

All in all, I see the removal of job restrictions for Glamour as a completely positive addition into the XIV gaming experience.

Re: "You honestly thought you could ever 'tell square enix what to do'?":

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

Thats what a forum is for my dude.

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Who told you that?

I suspect that the English forums may only exist because it's a check-mark on some marketing exec's list of features an MMO has to have.

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Originally Posted by SacraAnima

There is really no reason to not allow pieces of gear to be used as Glamour for any job. Obviously keep the actual item locked to the job that it was made for, but once in the Glamour Dresser it should be able to be used across all classes in glamour plates. The argument that "Black Mages shouldn't be in full armor" died a long long time ago when the devs introduced joke glams and bikinis. You can't run a roulette without multiple people going against their job identity in how they make their glams, and that's how it should be. People should be able to choose how they want their characters to look and express their jobs, what if there was a BLM who really wanted full plate armor? What's so bad about that when you can literally be in a chicken suit.

All in all, I see the removal of job restrictions for Glamour as a completely positive addition into the XIV gaming experience.

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You say there's no reason, yet here we are... still. It's almost as if there is a reason. As nice as it might be, it just might not be possible. If you had any degree of insight into what goes on behind the scenes, you might understand that. A dev team is not Emet-Selch with the ability to snap anything into creation.

Aye, adding something comes with a cost. Now none of us work for SE--making an assume here--so we have very little knowledge on how they allocate their resources but while it is another assumption to remove the restriction and or rework the entire glamour system would mean lost content in another space of the game.

Hell they already admitted due to the current work load of things they added they could not work on Eureka style content. Which is something many did enjoy, I am sure they have a white board in their office with features they would love to add if they had the time, and I am sure rework to glamour is on that list, and if it was something that was as easy as many like to claim, I am sure a it would have been treated like hats or the new races, majong etc . . . worked during spare time. It most likely is not that simple so people can say no excuse but as some of stated clearly they have an excuse those against it just do not like the excuse.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Re: "You honestly thought you could ever 'tell square enix what to do'?":

Who told you that?

I suspect that the English forums may only exist because it's a check-mark on some marketing exec's list of features an MMO has to have.

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when the forums were launched during 1.x it was specifically to gather feedback on the game in order to improve it, and to open up a direct line of communication to the xiv community

you know , telling the devs what to do

go back far enough on the forums and look at whats archived, thats mostly what it is

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

you know , telling the devs what to do

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It's a suggestion box, not a bunch of work orders. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

when the forums were launched during 1.x it was specifically to gather feedback on the game in order to improve it, and to open up a direct line of communication to the xiv community
you know , telling the devs what to do

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Who told you that?

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Who told you that?

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I'd agree that none of us can tell the devs what to do with their game, but the forums are definitely a place to leave feedback and suggestions for them to peruse.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-XIV-forums%21

Aye forums are place to share be it information, suggestions, and or opinions. I mean an argument can be made that many of the non JP suggestions fall on deaf ears but that is just conjecture.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Aye forums are place to share be it information, suggestions, and or opinions. I mean an argument can be made that many of the non JP suggestions fall on deaf ears but that is just conjecture.

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This may be the case, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying. Defeatism helps nobody.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

This may be the case, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying. Defeatism helps nobody.

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Sure it might be defeatist of me, but as mentioned in many other threads we simply do not know what limitations they are facing on the data end. It is easy enough to switch things from M to F or even on and off for hats it is a simple toggle. Which means the complexities lay in either data / server or boil down to a design choice made by the devs.

Yoshi - P does not strike me as the type to adjust a core design choice they are in favor of on a personal level. Going based off his response years back he is largely in favor of gear restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Yoshi - P does not strike me as the type to adjust a core design choice they are in favor of on a personal level. Going based off his response years back he is largely in favor of gear restrictions.

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He also doesn't strike me as the type to let hubris get in the way of choices that would benefit the community.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Yoshi - P does not strike me as the type to adjust a core design choice they are in favor of on a personal level. Going based off his response years back he is largely in favor of gear restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

He also doesn't strike me as the type to let hubris get in the way of choices that would benefit the community.

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He's been against a lot of things, and when the community asked, he acquiesced. Of course, sometimes with his own personal touch, for better or worse. But he did.

People asked for Blue Mage, and he gave them that.
People asked for changes to different forms content, both as feedback and as changes to old "obsolete" content, and he did that.
He had no reason to make a Gunblade wielding class nor a class that used a scythe, and he was clear that it was mostly a Western-community sentiment to have a scythe wielder.
Viera had been sketched to enter the game, but their designs weren't approved. Since Heavensward have I heard people ask for Viera to be implemented, and when they were, he said the male counterpart would not exist and that Hrothgar would count as that. Fans cried out once more for him to reconsider, and now Viera have a male counterpart with Hrothgars having a female version on the way. Regardless of whatever grievance or issue those races have, Viera being included at all was them going back on their opinion when faced with fans' opinions.

Honestly, sometimes people forget that the game has undergone a massive change in its core design out of fan outcry and feedback, and that the game has been shaped by fan demand and opinion as it went along.

And if there's a vocal group in the community asking them to reconsider this stance, it could well be that they might change the way the game is laid out. Or they might not. They might very well stick to their decision and continue to say "No". But the community has grown since the last time he spoke on this matter, and people still point this out as a flaw that they wish were addressed. And there hasn't been that much in the game to warrant people stop asking for it, especially since there are now new voices joining the old ones he said "no" to years ago.

He has said no to some ideas, of course. None is better known than the memetic "NIGHTMEAH" moment a few years back. But he always gave a reason for it and often he didn't go back on his word on matters where the change would affect the game tremendously. This wouldn't do so. Really would only affect the glamour system.

...now whether the change would cause them grievances due to how the system is designed to begin with is another matter. Because sometimes, you think you're pulling on one tiny string, and then the whole castle comes crashing :x

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

He's been against a lot of things, and when the community asked, he acquiesced. Of course, sometimes with his own personal touch, for better or worse. But he did.

People asked for Blue Mage, and he gave them that.
People asked for changes to different forms content, both as feedback and as changes to old "obsolete" content, and he did that.
He had no reason to make a Gunblade wielding class nor a class that used a scythe, and he was clear that it was mostly a Western-community sentiment to have a scythe wielder.
Viera had been sketched to enter the game, but their designs weren't approved. Since Heavensward have I heard people ask for Viera to be implemented, and when they were, he said the male counterpart would not exist and that Hrothgar would count as that. Fans cried out once more for him to reconsider, and now Viera have a male counterpart with Hrothgars having a female version on the way. Regardless of whatever grievance or issue those races have, Viera being included at all was them going back on their opinion when faced with fans' opinions.

Honestly, sometimes people forget that the game has undergone a massive change in its core design out of fan outcry and feedback, and that the game has been shaped by fan demand and opinion as it went along.

And if there's a vocal group in the community asking them to reconsider this stance, it could well be that they might change the way the game is laid out. Or they might not. They might very well stick to their decision and continue to say "No". But the community has grown since the last time he spoke on this matter, and people still point this out as a flaw that they wish were addressed. And there hasn't been that much in the game to warrant people stop asking for it, especially since there are now new voices joining the old ones he said "no" to years ago.

He has said no to some ideas, of course. None is better known than the memetic "NIGHTMEAH" moment a few years back. But he always gave a reason for it and often he didn't go back on his word on matters where the change would affect the game tremendously. This wouldn't do so. Really would only affect the glamour system.

...now whether the change would cause them grievances due to how the system is designed to begin with is another matter. Because sometimes, you think you're pulling on one tiny string, and then the whole castle comes crashing :x

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This is a pretty well articulated version of how I generally feel on the topic. I haven't been around to have some of the historical perspective regarding his behavior, but what you said certainly tracks with what I've seen in my time here so far.