6.1 PvP: Amazing!!

-Next is Job Balancing: Not all jobs are created equal, this is a new revision, so of course they didn't get EVERYTHING on their first try, but I do want to repeat: This is a GOOD STEP for PvP, it feels a lot more engaging, and if the momentum continues this could become something great. I digress: As it stands, the balancing is sort of unfavorable for certain classes, while some have really troublesome exploits (WHM infinite heal exploit for example). To keep it somewhat short I'll just say, these are the classes that I feel are UNDER powered, and they need a double check, and then I'll say ones that I think need to be detuned:

MNK and DNC, both have severe damage issues, this is just a math problem. MNK you have to work twice as hard as a SAM for your dmg burst, and said burst is so weak in comparison, that you shouldn't have done it in the first place, their LB and final hit of their combo need a damage retune, because I have been hit by 3 MNK LBs without a PLD or anything near me, and survived, that's a huge problem.

GNB is a kinda confusing class to pin down, when it comes to where it is balance wise. I personally think Solid Barrel is... useless? Mainly because Brutal Shell does not heal you, and Gnashing Fang is up often enough that you will always use it. I think they should make Solid Barrel Combo's Brutal Shell heal you, for, around like 8,000 potency maybe? let me know if that sounds unfair. Then tune Gnashing Fangs damage UP a LITTLE BIT, and make the Cooldown longer, like around 40 seconds maybe. Just so the GNB has a reason to USE Solid Barrel, because right now, they don't. Not to mention, removal of Cartridges, makes GNB no different from PLD. PLD goes in, their regular combo is replaced with an equally damaging strike as Burst Strike (not counting Continuation but that itself is not able to justify the next part) which is the fact that PLD HEALS from said Burst Strike Equivalent.

So, GNBs Burst Strike is awkward to use, because you can't hang onto it for very long, and enemies are quite mobile, sometimes you can't chase them, and even if they are OOM (which means they're out of heals) it's not worth it, because Burst Strike does not do enough dmg to make up for rushing within that 10s.

I really don't understand these types of arguments. How would what you call "obsession with balance" ruin PvP? The only thing I can think about is that some people like unbalanced pvp so they can pick up whatever jobs are op at the moment and get more wins than they normally would. I'm not saying it's your case, but I would appreciate if you could elaborate.

Moving on to OVER tunes.

WHM: infinite heal exploit, need I say more, but they're already working on that I'd assume. I personally think that you should NOT be able to be stunned while Polymorphed as well. Why do I say this? Well, on certain maps like The Volcanic Heart, there are stage hazards, that require either movement, or the use of Guard. Now, Movement is possible when Polymorphed, but it no longer is, if you are Bound, or Stunned. This is an issue, because Polymorph and VARIOUS stuns are up quite frequently, making you an easy pick in some really frustrating situations.

TLDR: Polymorphed players should not be able to be stunned, slowed I think is okay, because at least they CAN move, just less.

MCH: Here's one I have played a lot. Now, one could argue this is "smart" to do, but I find it sort of unfair potentially? Wildfire requires you fire 3 abilities into an enemy, for an immediate detonation. Your Scattershot counts as 2 abilities if you're hitting 1 target. Scattershot also puts your target into a state of KNOCKBACK, which means they can't guard against your Wildfire, unless they expect you to Scattershot them, which... I have basically never seen. This means you're locked into unblockable damage, and quite a lot of it.

Guarding their LB is somewhat inconsistent as well. I've put my Guard up the second the reticle was on me, even before when I've seen them prep the Sniper, but sometimes Marksman's Spite still lands through the Guard? While a preemptive Guard that they fall into, normally is fine- this never happens in higher ranks of CC.

TLDR on that: Maybe increase Marksman's Spite's cast time, or make Guard become "active" sooner.

DRG! I'll keep this short, I don't have much on this: Their LB is nearly impossible to detect in some cases, I have had DRGs LB from spawn, and ride down to the Crystal, wiping an entire team, and getting a game winning push off of it. I don't find that fair, as in all 3 instances, the teams could NOT detect the LB, meaning they had no chance to defend against it. Particles maybe need to be a bit brighter, or maybe an audio cue? idk let me know what you think about that.


Okay! I've said most of the things that I can think of that are in my eyes actionable flaws, some things are up to preference, but I really do hope the team continues to work on PvP, and I hope they really do read what people are saying, because I think eventually we'll land in a spot where PvP is actually fun and engaging for all players.

Let me know what you think, I'm not the only one that plays, and I'm sure there are class issues I have missed. I truly do want the best for the PvP, I've really enjoyed it despite these flaws, but I want to be able to confidently say to other players, that they should try it, and that it DOES work for all classes.

Don't worry friend, I share your obsession. Some people enjoy having their class be powerful of course, so like you said that is where some of the posts come from, but I think as a whole we really do need to look into balancing, as we don't want new players to quit, or player interest to die down, because THAT is how you get year long queues.

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Originally Posted by Dinksta

I have a lot to say on this subject! I have been playing the PvP nonstop, and in the process I have come to a few realizations, sadly I can only say 3,000 characters per post, so it'll be broken up a bit.



So, I really like the start of these reworks, but there are some conceptual issues that make it a bit difficult to consistently enjoy. I'll mostly be talking about Crystal Conflict during this:

So, I was hooked on the new PvP, I felt like it was making the steps required to make FFXIV PvP actually positively talked about, there are some flaws, but I don't think they're unsolvable, and if they ARE solved, we could be looking at something special here, so I'm going to go down a list in bullet point style to make it easier to read, and I want to see if maybe everyone can come together and reach common ground on some changes:


First up- Crowd Control: Purify is a good start to fixing the problems of players being stuck in situations without an escape, most MOBA games have Cleanse options in them for this very reason, but Purify sadly is not enough it seems. Certain Class Combos can severely inhibit your ability to... well, play at all, and that's downright not fun.

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Purify should work on everything and should give a longer immunity time. I have zero problems with crowd control, but I dislike that purify isn't a straight cleanse and doesn't work on certain things.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Purify should work on everything and should give a longer immunity time. I have zero problems with crowd control, but I dislike that purify isn't a straight cleanse and doesn't work on certain things.

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Yeah, that could work, it does accomplish the goal in my mind which is: stun distribution. I don't think you should focus all your stuns on alternating cooldowns on a single target, but rather keep the entire enemy team at bay with them, or stop key moves and attacks, like a GNB LB. If the Purify immunity was longer, it would discourage stacking CC on 1 person, and that overall is a good thing.

Great idea, but very poorly applied. (I wont mention job toolkits being gutted.) Unbalanced as all hell and the design philosophy feels confused. They say its casual, then add a ranked mode+ fomo rewards to it? Also no premade? Also no chat? So... is it ranked or not?

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Originally Posted by Lustre

Great idea, but very poorly applied. (I wont mention job toolkits being gutted.) Unbalanced as all hell and the design philosophy feels confused. They say its casual, then add a ranked mode+ fomo rewards to it? Also no premade? Also no chat? So... is it ranked or not?

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Oops, posted prematurely. But yeah. Not a fan of the 5 minute matches. I also dont like how I can tell how a match will go just based on team comps. Lots of potential, but I do wonder if this playlist will be populated when everyones got garo/season rewards done. The existence of the whm bug essentially devalues ranked play as a concept in itself. Bit confusing for me because one of the main reasons people disliked pvp before was because it was unbalanced, and this is worse than that yet everyone seems to love it. Needs a lot of work imo.

My favorite thing about this mode is me just sitting in my inn room, switching back and forth my hairstyles, portrait, and whatever casual glamours I have, then joining matches. Not the actual mode itself. :o

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Originally Posted by Lustre

Oops, posted prematurely. But yeah. Not a fan of the 5 minute matches. I also dont like how I can tell how a match will go just based on team comps. Lots of potential, but I do wonder if this playlist will be populated when everyones got garo/season rewards done. The existence of the whm bug essentially devalues ranked play as a concept in itself. Bit confusing for me because one of the main reasons people disliked pvp before was because it was unbalanced, and this is worse than that yet everyone seems to love it. Needs a lot of work imo.

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I think that the honeymoon phase is starting to wear off for a lot of players, people are realizing the issues more and more, all we can really do about it is just try to make our voices more clear for the Devs if at all possible. Luckily there's no intrinsic thing that is baked into the redesign that ruins it, but the Crowd Control is... well, "out of control" as they say, and that'll be one of the more challenging fixes. Luckily though, Crowd Control issues seem to be pretty unanimous? Outside of people that like WHM being way too strong, but... we ignore that because it's not objective.

If you look at queues though, it has fallen off quite a bit since it first came out, and the sentiment in the Wolves' Den on most servers has gone from positive to negative. Great first step, but we're not there yet.

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Originally Posted by Dinksta

I think that the honeymoon phase is starting to wear off for a lot of players, people are realizing the issues more and more, all we can really do about it is just try to make our voices more clear for the Devs if at all possible. Luckily there's no intrinsic thing that is baked into the redesign that ruins it, but the Crowd Control is... well, "out of control" as they say, and that'll be one of the more challenging fixes. Luckily though, Crowd Control issues seem to be pretty unanimous? Outside of people that like WHM being way too strong, but... we ignore that because it's not objective.

If you look at queues though, it has fallen off quite a bit since it first came out, and the sentiment in the Wolves' Den on most servers has gone from positive to negative. Great first step, but we're not there yet.

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Well, it was a nice novelty for awhile. I think a lot of people who actively did it are probably done or finishing up with the rewards.

pvp is actually really fun especially as a sam. the match making can use some fixing though.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Well, it was a nice novelty for awhile. I think a lot of people who actively did it are probably done or finishing up with the rewards.

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Well yeah one of the reasons is the novelty wearing off. But there are also some issues in general that made me stop playing it. Balancing foremost (too many CCs) and also rapidly growing cases of people using mods for advantages or cheating in general.
Knowing SE, there won‘t be any changes coming for decades. I think a PVP-mode with more frequent updates to jobs and balancing in general can keep such a mode interesting enough to maintain a moderate group of people.
But yeah, there aren‘t even any hotfixes for broken things/buggs and they will be probably patched once a leap year.
Also an easier report system for PVP is needed.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

[…]or cheating in general.

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There was one time not long ago I saw a MNK running around in Borderland resisted any sort of cc thrown at them. They don’t even have Resilience active. Heavy, Bind, Silence, Imp, Sleep, Freeze, Stun, you name it. They just run free. Sure their side does not win in the end but makes me wonder how could they let this one slip off, it’s trifling me.

Took me 150 losses, but I finally got this 'done'. May or may not keep doing it to finish up the achievement for the Gloria Ignition key, might just wait until next season.

https://i.ibb.co/7k7TxZp/dghdfghdfghdfhfg.png

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Took me 150 losses, but I finally got this 'done'. May or may not keep doing it to finish up the achievement for the Gloria Ignition key, might just wait until next season.

[IMG]

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Congrats! I just finished mine too yesterday but instead of spamming CC, I got most of mine via Frontline spamming. I still want to at least get all the plate frames though but dang, 1,000 trophies every 20,000 exp is a bit bummer if I want to rely on Frontline (I'm out of trophies and still missing 4 or 5 plates). I can see how it doesn't seem much to CC spammer but alas. I only do enough CC to clear the weekly challenge log and never touch it until next reset because the game; while it's fun, it gave me so much dose of anxiety to make me question the worthiness.

A little embarrassed to admit this because of the amount of time I've committed to it but I maxed out my Malmstones week 1 and I recently reached Platinum in ranked.

I like this new PvP, but I still have my issues with it. As everyone has already pointed out job balance is all over the place, SAM has a frontloaded kit for almost any situation whereas another melee like MNK lacks a lot... anything. (gating most of MNK's damage behind a ridiculously stupid 7 step combo, meh self sustain, garbage LB damage, no good burst options, etc.) I do agree that WHM is overtuned, but I wouldn't take many steps to change it- in my opinion just make Imp cleanse-able with Purify and move its LBs charge time to 90s instead of 60s (having a huge AoE nuke that not only does pretty big damage, but also stuns and heals is too much to have on a such a short charge time). Stuns or CC in general need to have diminishing timers like they already do in PvE because that shit can get ridiculous, one well placed stun is already enough to get you killed, but three consecutive stuns is just annoying to fight.

Also I want to be able to queue with friends in casual. I don't really care if it makes things "unfair" because most casual matches are already one sided stomps anyway.

I feel like this new PvP has the potential to be some actual content with longevity to it, it just needs some careful changes and better rewards.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Congrats! I just finished mine too yesterday but instead of spamming CC, I got most of mine via Frontline spamming. I still want to at least get all the plate frames though but dang, 1,000 trophies every 20,000 exp is a bit bummer if I want to rely on Frontline (I'm out of trophies and still missing 4 or 5 plates). I can see how it doesn't seem much to CC spammer but alas. I only do enough CC to clear the weekly challenge log and never touch it until next reset because the game; while it's fun, it gave me so much dose of anxiety to make me question the worthiness.

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Yeah, I can barely do frontline. I should EVENTUALLY try to get the horse since I'm like halfway done with that achievement, for Twin Adder at least.. If you still need 4 or 5 plates you are looking at.. Yeah, you are looking at.. quite a bit of exp needed.

I just do casual, so it doesn't really matter too much to me. The matches are quick, if it's a loss I roll my eyes and move on. That or I just stop doing it for a little while.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

Knowing SE, there won‘t be any changes coming for decades. I think a PVP-mode with more frequent updates to jobs and balancing in general can keep such a mode interesting enough to maintain a moderate group of people.
But yeah, there aren‘t even any hotfixes for broken things/buggs and they will be probably patched once a leap year.

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But they already did some slight balance changes and fixed bugs, so I don't know what you are talking about unless I misunderstood what you meant. Bigger changes are coming with 6.2 I guess, but hopefully more stuff is coming with minor patches.