Ishgard Housing Details are Out

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

Your world has 700 active players on it...

https://ffxivcensus.com/#ra-oc

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Try reading the census information on that website.

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Statistics for February 2022

Any reference to "Active" characters, refers to characters that have claimed the following item:
The minion & mount for completing the Endwalker Main Scenario Quest from the Patch 6.0 story

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You don't need the mount and minion from the 6.0 MSQ to be eligible to purchase a house.

He's also on a Materia world. You'd be better off looking at the All Characters numbers for those worlds since they didn't even open until the end of January. Not all those characters will be purchase eligible (some were only created to get the 15 days free game time granted to account creating characters on new worlds) but a large percentage will be. And of course many more characters will have been made on those worlds in the meantime. It doesn't take long to meet the requirements to purchase.


Regardless, even if Zurvan doesn't have the population yet for that many entries to be made there are other worlds like Balmung that do. By mid-May, Balmung will be seeing several thousand entries for the 3 or 4 houses likely to be available each lottery period.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Your chances are still going to be non-existent. The competition to buy one now pales in comparison to what's to come. Neither system is good, but neither of them are any better than the other.

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Chances in the first lottery period should be decent. One in 20-25 (assuming someone isn't trying for a prime plot) isn't that bad.

Chances in the second lottery period would be poor. One in 200-300 sucks.

Chances after that will be close to non-existent. But still, for those who didn't even try to get a house in the past because of placard camping their chances with the lottery will be better (one in thousands) than before (zero).

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

Your world has 700 active players on it...

https://ffxivcensus.com/#ra-oc

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FFXIVCensus is a bit broken in it's labels, "Active Players" according to it are people who finished EndWalker, not actually "active" players. And as most of Materia alted and are sprouts... it's quite a misleading figure.

Beats me why they don't just use a term like "End Game" instead.

Any % chance is infinitely higher than not even trying like with FCFS since my schedule doesn't let me sit at a placard for hours on end, not to mention houses being non-existent right now to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Lecru

Hey guess what? Fun fact. If you used your head. you'd realize that Instant transfer of housing doesn't detract from the amount of houses available. Only for that ward. I know that's hard, but come on. So in turn, it would still allow for everyone to have a chance period.

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Sort of. The odds are likely to be the best during the first lottery bird. If you have roughly 1,500 new plots added in Ishgard and say... 30,000 players that want a plot, that's about a 5% chance per player on average. Not all plots are created equal, but I'm talking bigger picture. However, let's say, there were 500 transfers, negating part of the first lottery, that means we have 1000 new owners and 500 plots still up for sale.

The second lottery, we'd have 29,000 players and only 500 plots. Giving odds of about 1.7%. That's much worse than 5%.

The key thing isn't the numbers. The key thing is that transfers will lower the odds for all non-homeowners in the lottery. So while sure, there would be still be an equal number of plots on the server, the odds would be going down. At a bare minimum, if all 1500 plots had transfers, we'd wind up with no Ishgard plots in the lottery.

IMO this system is going to get people to wake up to just how bad housing is overall.

The first week will have some winners and a lot of people who lose. They can't blame it on anything except the game now since SE will have eliminated a lot of the external factors. I suspect by week two or three we'll see a lot of "Let's talk about housing" type posts or a megathread or something.

People blame a lot of things like bots, grandfathered players, or whatever else. But ultimately those are all symptoms of the real issue: the system is just bad. The truth is that even if you resolved every single one of those issues there still aren't enough houses.

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

IMO this system is going to get people to wake up to just how bad housing is overall.

The first week will have some winners and a lot of people who lose. They can't blame it on anything except the game now since SE will have eliminated a lot of the external factors. I suspect by week two or three we'll see a lot of "Let's talk about housing" type posts or a megathread or something.

People blame a lot of things like bots, grandfathered players, or whatever else. But ultimately those are all symptoms of the real issue: the system is just bad. The truth is that even if you resolved every single one of those issues there still aren't enough houses.

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The thing about official game forums is that most threads will be people complaining about a system they don't like or doesn't benefit them. The vast majority of people that can no life camp the existing system will not complain about it because it doesn't benefit them to change it.

It's a legitimate complaint in this instance. There's no reason for scarcity on something like a virtual property.

I think a lot of people just do not realize how bad it is and this will end up showing all the flaws with very little in the way of excuses.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

Any % chance is infinitely higher than not even trying like with FCFS since my schedule doesn't let me sit at a placard for hours on end, not to mention houses being non-existent right now to begin with.

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FCFS never required you to sit at a placard when new housing was released. You just walk to a house and buy it.

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

It's a legitimate complaint in this instance. There's no reason for scarcity on something like a virtual property.

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I'm not sure I agree. In all of the MMOs I've played, this is by far the one with the most customizable housing. And all of those options require processing and storage. Depending on your plot size, hundreds of items can be placed by pixel, rotated fractions of a degree - and then it all has to be rendered. Each data center is technically responsible for upwards of 60 plots per ward, 24 wards and (soon) 5 cities per server, with about 10 servers per data center. That's 72,000 private instances that could be up at once. It isn't a small number. That also means there are 2,400 housing ward instances up at once. And those are probably always up providing players in that instance with the data for the location of all 30 plots in that instance along with all 600+ outdoor furnishings whose location and orientation have to be sent to each player in the instance.

If you played during the early days of ARR, they had a very hard time spinning up enough instances of dungeons on Tuesdays (tomes reset day) to accommodate the playerbase zerging capped tomes in Amdapor Keep or Wanderer's Palace. And in recent times, they greatly limited the housing instance servers in exchange for getting more players through the queue to login.

I don't think it is as simple as changing a variable in the codebase from 24 wards to 240 wards. There are a lot of other factors involved.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I don't think it is as simple as changing a variable in the codebase from 24 wards to 240 wards. There are a lot of other factors involved.

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No one claimed it was. The point is they made a system that doesn't scale (like a lot of other things) and now they're very much into sunken cost territory. The ward system is neat, but likely causes most of the issues and I don't think many people would miss it because it's rare to actually see another player there anyway. Even on the most populated servers. Having 24 wards per city per server that must be up 24/7 is a lot of wasted resources compared to housing instances which are basically loaded on demand.

At the end of the day, it's still all excuses. It's entirely feasible to make instanced housing. FFXIV didn't invent housing. There are other games, some of which actually have less restrictions on placing items, that give players their own personal instance. FFXIV is actually pretty limited compared to a lot of them, which is saying a lot since you can do quite a bit with it.

72,000 sounds like a like lot but it's nothing. There are frequently more than 90k players on Steam alone and it's literally the least popular platform to play the game on.

I really think anyone who defends housing in this game just hasn't played a lot of MMOs or experienced other systems.

Even on the current housing implementation, the lottery system isn't just for the real of Ishgard housing. It'll be for future waves of housing becoming available on existing home worlds once they finally reimplement auto demolition (which hot take should already be back in post-Endwalker release). More importantly, it'll be important when they add new home worlds.

For European players, Light & Chaos will be expanded from 6 to 8 home worlds this summer. That means 7200 plots of all sizes, not including apartments, per home world per datacenter. On top of that, SE have also mentioned adding an additional data centre for European players during summer 2023 which means 8 new home worlds with a total of 57600 new plots of all sizes (again not including apartments).

Beyond the discussion of islands sanctuaries or instanced housing, they're adding a ton more housing already over the next 12-18 months without just bloating the number of wards. I'd appreciate a proper redesign or overhaul of the housing system in a future expansion but how does one manage that without potentially alienating the existing player base that's already spent time building up houses and wards?

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Originally Posted by Reinha

FCFS never required you to sit at a placard when new housing was released. You just walk to a house and buy it.

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That assumes you have the luxury of being able to log in when the servers come online and the luck to be at the front of the log in queue instead of at the back.

The majority of players do not have that luxury and few had the luck. The 5.35 wards sold out within an hour. Anything left was already subject to the purchase timer because it had already been purchased with the initial owner immediately relocating to a different plot they wanted more.

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Originally Posted by Johners

Beyond the discussion of islands sanctuaries or instanced housing, they're adding a ton more housing already over the next 12-18 months without just bloating the number of wards. I'd appreciate a proper redesign or overhaul of the housing system in a future expansion but how does one manage that without potentially alienating the existing player base that's already spent time building up houses and wards?

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By improving the system so what they will be able to get is better than what they already have.

Give me a good instanced housing system and I'd be happy to give up my medium in Mist. I already redecorate 2-3 times a year as the mood hits me so having to decorate from scratch is not a deterrent. A good instanced housing system could allow me to do more than I'm currently capable of doing. Controls to place an item anywhere I want within the instance (backwards, forwards, left, right, up, down)? Heck yeah. Controls allowing me to resize items so I can make some of my furnishing lala-size? I'm in. Allow me to share my item limit across all furnishing types so if I want 100 outdoor furnishings and only 230 indoor furnishings, I can have just that. I'm sold.

If the rest of RIFT was not such a mediocre game at best, I'd be getting my housing fix there because what players are able to do with Dimensions is far and above what housing in this game offers. And there's no demolition. All my housing that I had back in 2017 when I quit playing RIFT was still there when I returned for a visit last fall while waiting for Endwalker. Most of it was exactly as I left it (a few items that created special effects within the Dimension had changed how they display their effects).

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Originally Posted by Johners

Beyond the discussion of islands sanctuaries or instanced housing, they're adding a ton more housing already over the next 12-18 months without just bloating the number of wards. I'd appreciate a proper redesign or overhaul of the housing system in a future expansion but how does one manage that without potentially alienating the existing player base that's already spent time building up houses and wards?

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I have a large and would absolutely give up the front yard to switch to a proper instanced system where everyone can get a house. I'm sure I am not alone there, either.

Theoretically you could just instance the front yards too, but almost anything is better than what we have.

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

I have a large and would absolutely give up the front yard to switch to a proper instanced system where everyone can get a house. I'm sure I am not alone there, either.

Theoretically you could just instance the front yards too, but almost anything is better than what we have.

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I'd be happy with my apartments and FC rooms if I could buy a plot with just-for-looks house with a large yard to landscape.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I'm not sure I agree. In all of the MMOs I've played, this is by far the one with the most customizable housing.

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Let me show you EQ2's housing system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttbMFLNA4Xk&t=20s
THIS is what I want this game's housing system to be. I know it's a pipe dream but the biggest problem about EQ2's housing is the fact it's attached to EQ2. I haven't seen an MMO do housing this well.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Let me show you EQ2's housing system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttbMFLNA4Xk&t=20s
THIS is what I want this game's housing system to be. I know it's a pipe dream but the biggest problem about EQ2's housing is the fact it's attached to EQ2. I haven't seen an MMO do housing this well.

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EQ2 housing was terrible in many respects. Sure you had more ways to customize and unlimited use of the number of housing items, but because of that, the lag and load times were horrible. Each instance was huge and players would fill them to the brim with decorations, but at the same time you could feel the pull on the servers engines inside the instance as well as outside. There was no limit restrictions in place and also no limit set on how many you owned or what you could put in them. I would never want something like EQ2 had, because it was way too overboard and cause it's own set of issues. I know because I was a player and a Senior Guide for the game for years.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

EQ2 housing was terrible in many respects. Sure you had more ways to customize and unlimited use of the number of housing items, but because of that, the lag and load times were horrible. Each instance was huge and players would fill them to the brim with decorations, but at the same time you could feel the pull on the servers engines inside the instance as well as outside. There was no limit restrictions in place and also no limit set on how many you owned or what you could put in them. I would never want something like EQ2 had, because it was way too overboard and cause it's own set of issues. I know because I was a player and a Senior Guide for the game for years.

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Yet there's a lot of room for a middle ground between what FFXIV offers and what EQ2 or ESO or RIFT do, and Wildstar did offer.

Also don't forget that tech has improved significantly since EQ2 was released over a decade ago. One thing I noticed with RIFT was that they had significantly increased item limits in many of their Dimensions, with some of them doubling. One of my Dimensions I had basically capped out at 499 out of 500 items when I was actively playing now has a limit of 1000, and can even be increased to a maximum of 1600 (though it would require use of cash shop currency, no thanks).

This is a video of the Dimension I'm talking about when it is undecorated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTr-rWgkvM8

This is what I ended with.

https://i.imgur.com/RJrRtfg.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/JaXUOJ4.jpg

Part of it looks absolutely nothing like the original but I was able to do it using their default housing tools, which include Z axis placement, full rotation and resizing items. Because some items I was able to resize to several times their normal size, it reduced the number of items I needed to place in some cases.

There is a middle ground to be found that would improve our housing system immensely while avoiding some of the pitfalls you experienced.

Yes, players using older hardware are going to lag compared to players with newer hardware. There's nothing new about that, some players already have noticeable lag in housing that they don't experience in other places in the game. I've got a better computer now than I had 4 years ago so the lag and rendering issues I used to experience in RIFT Dimensions no longer occur for me. They probably would occur for someone who's using a 10 year old PC.

Instanced housing would allow players to customize their own housing to what is reasonably tolerated by their hardware. Nothing says someone has to use up every bit of an item limit. There would be no heavy lag trying to load into a ward that's bogged down by the need to render items placed by multiple players. If they know they experience lag in other houses that are at item limit, they can choose not to enter another player's housing.

Wildstar really had a great system. Not only did you have an instanced house with placement that is similar to FFXIV (plus an unlocked height axis), you could link it up with other people and make your own little mini-ward.

The game had it's own issues, but housing certainly wasn't one of them.

I'd love to see FFXIV adopt that sort of ward system in the long run, but just personal/fc instanced houses is the only thing I ever feasibly expect.

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

Wildstar really had a great system. Not only did you have an instanced house with placement that is similar to FFXIV (plus an unlocked height axis), you could link it up with other people and make your own little mini-ward.

The game had it's own issues, but housing certainly wasn't one of them.

I'd love to see FFXIV adopt that sort of ward system in the long run, but just personal/fc instanced houses is the only thing I ever feasibly expect.

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Do course housing isn’t going to be an issue for them because they barely has ability to sustain enough subscription to even keep the game alive.
Once player population reach a certain threshold, they too is going to have issue

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Do course housing isn’t going to be an issue for them because they barely has ability to sustain enough subscription to even keep the game alive.
Once player population reach a certain threshold, they too is going to have issue

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There's a reason most MMORPGs with player housing choose fully instanced housing.

It's a superior scalable solution compared to limited housing like XIV's ward housing.

XIV's ward housing is a failure in terms of accessibility.

It requires far more server resources to keep the existing ward houses and to add additional wards to servers.

Using XIV apartments/FC chambers as an example of instanced housing, we can see how much better they scale. However, they're let down by the fact that we can't upgrade them for gil into larger spaces.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

EQ2 housing was terrible in many respects. Sure you had more ways to customize and unlimited use of the number of housing items, but because of that, the lag and load times were horrible. Each instance was huge and players would fill them to the brim with decorations, but at the same time you could feel the pull on the servers engines inside the instance as well as outside. There was no limit restrictions in place and also no limit set on how many you owned or what you could put in them. I would never want something like EQ2 had, because it was way too overboard and cause it's own set of issues. I know because I was a player and a Senior Guide for the game for years.

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So the system was bad because your computer lagged? That's an odd reason to denounce a housing system that lets you do whatever you want with your housing items. Speaking of which, EQ2 lets you mount your relic weapons on the wall if you were not using them, that's an amazing way to keep your older relics somewhat relevant.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Do course housing isn’t going to be an issue for them because they barely has ability to sustain enough subscription to even keep the game alive.
Once player population reach a certain threshold, they too is going to have issue

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More players means more money for more hardware. That's quite literally one of the purposes of a subscription fee. So this isn't really a good argument.

If they choose to not use those funds to support the infrastructure and backend changes for a growing playerbase then that is rightfully deserving of criticism.

This is objectively what they have done for things like housing.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

So the system was bad because your computer lagged? That's an odd reason to denounce a housing system that lets you do whatever you want with your housing items. Speaking of which, EQ2 lets you mount your relic weapons on the wall if you were not using them, that's an amazing way to keep your older relics somewhat relevant.

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Nah most everyone lagged, not just me. It was the #1 gripe when zoning into a city or just going to look at players housing designs. People who got killed in the city of an opposing faction (race) they blame the lag all the time. hehe Load times for those specific areas were horrific.

Yeah relics could be mounted as a wall item which was cool and your collection of cloaks could be displayed on mannequins. What I did like a lot was you could place NPC's in your house, pose them and they'd actually talked to you in greeting. Also you had more placement tools, not only could you rotate, but you could set an item at any height, turn it diagonally and no restriction on surface placement. You could have a market board and mailbox inside your house as well. Those are the things I really liked about EQ housing.

I think relocation should still be in the game. The same number of plots would be available. With this new system, you can't really get the plot you want. You have no choice really. A month from now, whichever random house is free is the one you'll get your one chance of getting. It could be any house in any district. You won't be able to choose or seek your dream plot. If you get an ugly one just to have a house you won't get a chance to upgrade to a better house in a plot you like. That is going to be the future of housing, and it will suck. With the old system, the ones that wanted a specific house the most could get it (like logging in right as the new wards were added and rushing to your dream plot, or buying from another player if you were wealthy). Now you'll never have your dream plot. I got mine already. In this new system I'd never have the chance.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

EQ2 housing was terrible in many respects. Sure you had more ways to customize and unlimited use of the number of housing items, but because of that, the lag and load times were horrible. Each instance was huge and players would fill them to the brim with decorations, but at the same time you could feel the pull on the servers engines inside the instance as well as outside. There was no limit restrictions in place and also no limit set on how many you owned or what you could put in them. I would never want something like EQ2 had, because it was way too overboard and cause it's own set of issues. I know because I was a player and a Senior Guide for the game for years.

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What were you playing on? A toaster? I never had lag in houses, and if you were getting lag outside of houses, that wasn't the housing system causing it. Those servers were separate from the world servers (hence, instanced). I played EQ2 for years and never had lag issues in houses, ever.

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

What were you playing on? A toaster? I never had lag in houses, and if you were getting lag outside of houses, that wasn't the housing system causing it. Those servers were separate from the world servers (hence, instanced). I played EQ2 for years and never had lag issues in houses, ever.

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Yeah same. I didn't have lag in my guildhall off Freeport (which was really well decorated), and I didn't have it in any of my housing, which was more of a mess of heaps of junk.

I'm glad the lottery system was implemented, but I'm frustrated it wasn't announced sooner, and that (assuming I'm understanding the explanation correctly) outright buying plots will be an option, but not at launch for 6.1.

I spent so much time grinding gil and clicking placards to get a house, just so I could try to relocate as soon as possible when Ishgard housing dropped, only to find out that it's not possible and I wasted my time. Very frustrating, I wish they'd been more open about the changes sooner.

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Originally Posted by KTM8Y

I'm glad the lottery system was implemented, but I'm frustrated it wasn't announced sooner, and that (assuming I'm understanding the explanation correctly) outright buying plots will be an option, but not at launch for 6.1.

I spent so much time grinding gil and clicking placards to get a house, just so I could try to relocate as soon as possible when Ishgard housing dropped, only to find out that it's not possible and I wasted my time. Very frustrating, I wish they'd been more open about the changes sooner.

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It was announced a few months ago, in passing during a PLL, they were removing relocation. No it wasn't an official announcement but we knew it was coming. I wish I could give you an exact source but I don't have it. I just remember it being mentioned when talking about housing updates before EW came out. It was a hot topic of discussion within my FC because we had hoped to relocate from our current house to one in Ishgard.

It's a great change and prevents sniping and trolling. I also find it annoying that I can't relocate to a plot I want but I'm lucky enough to not only have a house but have an FC house, so I don't see the issue in removing it so people who don't have houses have a better chance against campers, bots, and sellers.

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Originally Posted by KTM8Y

I'm glad the lottery system was implemented, but I'm frustrated it wasn't announced sooner,

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Errr ...
https://www.pcgamer.com/final-fantas...ousing-crisis/

This article is from July 19, 2021. It was announced soon enough, sorry. :)


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Ransu

$100 says if they added instanced housing people would absolutely complain about it being immersion breaking because the house would be in a basic instance without the rest of the area and other houses and players running around.

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What players? The only time I ever see 1- maybe 2 or 3 people running around in Shirogane is when I'm organising events for MY FC xD

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...1402d99f7f90a4

As of Patch 6.1, estate plots have been allocated as follows:

Free Company Estates: Wards 1-18
Private Estates: Wards 19-24

So, only 300 plots for personals on NA/EU/JP worlds.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...1402d99f7f90a4

As of Patch 6.1, estate plots have been allocated as follows:

Free Company Estates: Wards 1-18
Private Estates: Wards 19-24

So, only 300 plots for personals on NA/EU/JP worlds.

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The plot allocation is a complete joke. The demand for personal housing is way higher compared to FC going by that 70% of existing houses are personal.

Mark my words, there's going to be tons of empty FC plots out there, waiting to be just picked up by RMT botters or people abusing shell FCs while actual players looking to get a personal house are just gonna get completely shut out.

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Originally Posted by DeNada

The plot allocation is a complete joke. The demand for personal housing is way higher compared to FC going by that 70% of existing houses are personal.

Mark my words, there's going to be tons of empty FC plots out there, waiting to be just picked up by RMT botters or people abusing shell FCs while actual players looking to get a personal house are just gonna get completely shut out.

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I don't think they'll be empty, that's just free real estate for bot/sock FCs who have infinite money duo to grandfathered players with dozens of workshops as well as RMT FCs. Really nice of Square to reward those players even further ahead of normal players.

I'm actually interested in the impact this is going to have on the other districts (if I'm reading it right, it says EVERY, so I'm assuming this goes to Goblet, Lav Beds, Mist and Shirogane) once some others move to Ishgard if they already have a house and win one.

Yoshi-P and the team are so strangely obtuse when it comes to specific things, housing probably being the chief among them. The problems before were one FC taking up an entire ward, camping plots, and bot/AHK scripts almost being required. The lottery system was a concession the majority of people are willing to accept, fine. People didn't like that FC's could get multiple entries in the lottery, but again, fine, whatever.

However, this counterintuitive change not only takes a massive step back for people looking for a house, but it completely goes against the idea of Yoshi-P playing up the social aspect. Simply put, there's just not enough FC's to fill 1-18 wards across 60 plots and 5 districts. I would not be surprised islands of houses surrounded by empty plots.

Now, apart from the obvious overcrowding issue for private estates, you have the exact opposite problem of those districts being a ghost town. It's fair to say that even people who own private houses will more likely hang out at their FC house, assuming they're in one and have one. I also think most people who do have private houses will notice a lot of people they do see, are hanging out with FC mates. So who is going to be around these private estate wards? There's less of a chance to show off your place simply by virtue that less people are likely to hang around your ward.

The only thing this does IMO, is incentivize smaller FCs. Bigger FCs are likely to split, but still retain identity, just to gain more housing spots, which is a lot easier now thanks to the restriction. In other words, the exact same problem as before.

The ward allocation is absolutely tragic. Why they’d give 75% of the wards to FCs makes zero sense to me

I remember when they added 3 wards for eatch housing, and LOTS of plots was empty until they let it be bought as personal housing...

We need instanced housing wards as an option. I know people want their neighborhoods, so they can keep them and people like me can just have an instanced house and the neighborhood people can move into the house I left instead. Having instanced housing doesn’t mean taking away the wards that already exist for neighborhoods. I like decorating my house and having a place to store my housing items. I have a FC room, a small house, and an apartment. I have so many housing items from events, etc It’s bad when people get all these housing items and have to figure out where to store them.

Whether it’s lottery or not for neighborhoods, or they add more wards, there is never going to be enough houses in the game for everyone. Instanced houses need to be added. Let players choose whether or not they want to live in a neighborhood.

Yeah the 75% FC allocation seems absurdly high to me. I thought it would be split more 50/50, and even then I thought that was high.

And here I thought it couldn't get any worse. Guess it can. Good job dev team, you're really nailing that Blizzard energy!