Summoner is a Final Fantasy 14 summoner (not a warlock wow clone)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

I enjoy how this thread has turned into everyone vs aveyond; the ratio of likes between posters says it all.

---

What do you (or she?!) expect?

It´s not the first time and won´t be the last time, especially since the whole argumentation is like "New SMN is a real SMN, the majority wanted it so, everyone fell in love with it on the tour, blabla...."

It´s the same with any MNK thread. Ppl (the holy majority) don´t even play MNK, better said... they HATE everything about the class but some punch and kick animations. So MNK got changed and changed into braindead-mode, but do they play MNK now? Or do they play positionals? Will they start to compete in the endgame? I guess not.
The new SMN is nothing but a result of similar threads. SMN didn´t got fixed, it has become a new class thanks to a bunch of pointless comments. Now we´ve a running animation-festival, which has even less depth than DNC.

And ofc, this one girl / guy / divers is running around like "New SMN is so insane, look all the opinions from reddit, tumblr, etc.!", but haven´t even played it by itself, just to make fun about everyone who is losing his warlock he / she might´ve played for decades. And they swear on opinions from the media tour... opinions from ppl who got paid to claim "It´s sooooo awesome!".

On top he / she / it doesn´t even play SMN... self-claimed "I love SMN, but it´s so bad to play that i stay on BLM / RDM and have like 3 alts only to play BLM!".
How does it even make sense? How can someone love a class but stays away from it like that?! Because they love an idea in her head... some mighty picture which appears if they hear the word "Summoner", NOT THE GIVEN CLASS!

TLDR:

SE caters ppl who

- don´t even play the class
- don´t even play the endgame
- don´t have a clue about the class, but think they´ve one
- just love an idea
- just look at animations
- make fun about others who lose their main-class
- nitpicking arguments from everywhere and claim it with a word called "majority"
- come up with FF-series lore, but shit on it at their next post

Does it make sense? I guess not... And it´s not like SE could´ve created a new SMN next to the old one. Or better... they could finally come with some skilltrees.

Enthusiastic posts such as the one above do little to sway people to the cause of affliction warlock summoner.

How one can claim that new summoner is more shallow than dancer is a mystery to me. And then, there is talk of what is or isn't honesty.

It is patently obvious that people didn't like the current state of summoner or else they wouldn't be reworking it. They don't put in that kind of effort if they don't have internal metrics and feedback indicating the job is in the toilet, popularity-wise. Now, saying that the rework hits the mark for people is more or less ludicrous. While the buzz I've seen has almost universally been positive, all of that buzz has been "wow it looks like a summoner now!" and not "that looks like it's going to be fun!" So time will actually tell. For my money, it looks like the worst remake of the lot and that is saying something because the drk changes in shb completely gutted that job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Does it make sense? I guess not... And it´s not like SE could´ve created a new SMN next to the old one. Or better... they could finally come with some skilltrees.

---

YES.

They admitted a year or 2 ago they messed up on the design, why not go fully on that road of acknowledgement.

Why not say, ok, the class so far was really more of an arcanist, so we'll rework it a bit by removing the demis, expanding on the strategic magic aspects (dots, aetherflow and more) and transforming the egis into real pets, and give it Arcanist name or whatever.

And then we will add a dedicated job that is Summoner, with a rotation based on a dozen of lesser and elder summons, working similarly to ff 1-9. Now that we have enough lore to give a dozen summons to people, and enough levels to not give them all at once.

That may have had some people unhappy for some reason (there always are), but a lot less, and would not have created such division (that was never their intention :P) among the playerbase.

They would still be casters so hare the gear and you can easily switch anytime, there would still be 2 gameplays, there would be pets, dots and summons, just not mixed together... Anyone thinking summoner is a bit simple and just a flashy call to FF crowd could flock to the Arcanist, anyone here because of FF rather than the MMO could do the opposite, each could be tried out...

I like the rework because it allows SMN to exist, I dislike the rework because they didn't give a choice and killed Arcanist for people who were attracted to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karshan

YES.

---

So long as I get to keep my sparkle dog, I'm down. :>

(Ps I wish they would finally do something like this with brd and archer. And let bards focus on the artistry and let archer fans not have the thematic baggage of a bard.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karshan

I like the rework because it allows SMN to exist, I dislike the rework because they didn't give a choice and killed Arcanist for people who were attracted to it.

---

Seriously skilltrees would´ve solved a lot of issues and discussions over the years. Just give every class 3 subtrees and / or combine them.

For SMN it would be like

a) 5.0 SMN
b) 6.0 SMN
c) Scholar

or MNK

a) Positional-heavy tree with more movement in the Fist of Wind stance
b) "Blitz" - tree in FoF stance
c) Tankmonk?! in the FoE stance

or combine BLM and WHM like

a) BLM as it is
b) A white and black magic combination with way more Dots and ground effects, but more versatile
c) WHM

RDPS classes could be 1 Main class with all 3 subclasses aswell

a) BRD as Dotrange
b) MCH as burstrange
c) DNC as procc range

RDM could be like

a) RDM with doublecast
b) Melee-heavy RDM with spreaded buffs?!
c) Astrologian?!

What about...

a) DRK
b) Reaper
c) a mix?!

And so on...

There would´ve been a lot of possibilities to cater the players with different roles, or better... the same core role but different skillsystems. Everyone could be happy to be that arcanist with summons, or burst summoner, maybe a positional lover or hater, whatever is possible.
Don´t know why SE don´t try it. In the end we wouldn´t even need like 20 solo classes, when all of them would´ve subtrees and combinations which fit together in some way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mansion

I won't deny your point about DRK and MCH which lost some complexity in their redesign (although arguably, most of the complexity came from clunky job design and mechanics), or even wome other jobs which lost some complexity / skill ceiling over the course of extensions.
Here SMN has lost DoTs management mainly, in profit of elemental summons which do seem to be a bit more meaningful and deep than keeping DoTs up. I won't say we lost Demi management as we were mostly trying to avoid bugs and ghosting. I think it's a bit different, especially as the rework hasn't changed half of the job, and focused on its downtime.
SMN has been my main since I started FFXIV, and in principle I'm not sure this version of the job speaks to me, but I don't think it's made easier (or ruined) from its previous iterations.

---

This doesn't sound quite right. Summoner is losing...
DOT Management
Tri-disaster cooldown management
Pet management
Consideration of Egi-Assault and Ruin 4 usage such that you have Ruin 4s for Bahamut or weaving, and egi-assaults for movement, without overcapping when you go into a demi-phase

And what do we get in exchange? We get the most boring part of the existing kit, hitting two buttons during Phoenix phase, except that is now the entire job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkdra

It is patently obvious that people didn't like the current state of summoner or else they wouldn't be reworking it. They don't put in that kind of effort if they don't have internal metrics and feedback indicating the job is in the toilet, popularity-wise. Now, saying that the rework hits the mark for people is more or less ludicrous. While the buzz I've seen has almost universally been positive, all of that buzz has been "wow it looks like a summoner now!" and not "that looks like it's going to be fun!" So time will actually tell. For my money, it looks like the worst remake of the lot and that is saying something because the drk changes in shb completely gutted that job.

---

The devs don't need community feedback to tell them it needed changed. Watch YoshiP talking to Larry about it.
-2.0 SMN was rushed, they thought they could fix it in 3.0
-3.0 they felt it still was broken but they would try fixing in 4.0
-4.0 was even more broken and they weren't sure where to go for 5.0
-5.0 they tried fixing again and decided that 5.X will be on life support the plug will be pulled in expac. He dead.
-6.0 Here we is SMN 2.0 for real. How this goes remains to be seen.

You pretty much go through a summon cycle over and over. I'll personally love it since it'll feel like a BLM with a bunch of instant casts outside some slight downtime when Bahamut or Phoenix are recharging. Bahamut/Phoenix share a CD I am assuming of 60 seconds. So with that in mind we have:

16 seconds of Bahamut/Phoenix
12.63 seconds of Ifrit
12.05 seconds of Titan
10.29 seconds of Garuda

Roughly 50.97 seconds. So after Bahamut/Phoenix you only need to spend 10 seconds or 5 GCDs before continuing to summon chain again.

Bahamut > Arcanum > Filler > Phoenix > Arcanum > Filler > Repeat

Filler is probably going to be Ruin 3, ED/ES, Fester/Pain, Ruin 4. I suspect Ruin 3 and Fester/Pain/Ruin 4 weaving will be a thing.

SMN will not want Spellspeed I don't think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mansion

I won't deny your point about DRK and MCH which lost some complexity in their redesign (although arguably, most of the complexity came from clunky job design and mechanics), or even wome other jobs which lost some complexity / skill ceiling over the course of extensions.
Here SMN has lost DoTs management mainly, in profit of elemental summons which do seem to be a bit more meaningful and deep than keeping DoTs up. I won't say we lost Demi management as we were mostly trying to avoid bugs and ghosting. I think it's a bit different, especially as the rework hasn't changed half of the job, and focused on its downtime.
SMN has been my main since I started FFXIV, and in principle I'm not sure this version of the job speaks to me, but I don't think it's made easier (or ruined) from its previous iterations.

---

Elemental summons are a replacement for Egi Assaults and Enkindle, not DoTs. SMN lost DoTs and got nothing in return.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rewd

Elemental summons are a replacement for Egi Assaults and Enkindle, not DoTs. SMN lost DoTs and got nothing in return.

---

What did DoTs add to the overall kit though? Bane and Fester just amount to more damage which the Endwalker tools will still give us and Tri Disaster means you push 1 button instead of 2. This isn't like Bard where the DoTs are a key aspect to the jobs mechanics, on Summoner they were just retextured damage. A sizable amount of damage to be sure, but it is rather telling that most of Summoners changes can be traced to the Egi rework not the DoTs disappearing.

Summoner lost dots in exchange for rite and catastrophe spells whose cast times and effects alter depending on our gem summon, along with a unique 3rd ability per summon. This information is widely available at this point. I suppose if one was entirely averse to FF content creators it would have been easy to miss the enormous amounts of videos made on 6.0's job changes.

Anyway, we do not need to juggle poison magic on top of what we already have now, as it would distract from the class fantasy and primary mechanic which is summon magic.

6.0 summoner draws thematically from Garnet's 1 off jewel summons along with mechanically Rydia's black magic from FFIV which likely inspired the new rite and catastrophe spells. Despite however much some have implied, Bio was not a particular highlight of her set of abilities. Ruby, our Firaga and Flare. Emerald, Tornado (though this spell was rarely, if ever used). Quake was also part of her kit back then too. I'd like harder hitting spells along with more summons in future updates, not boring things to keep track of.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

You pretty much go through a summon cycle over and over. I'll personally love it since it'll feel like a BLM with a bunch of instant casts outside some slight downtime when Bahamut or Phoenix are recharging. Bahamut/Phoenix share a CD I am assuming of 60 seconds. So with that in mind we have:

16 seconds of Bahamut/Phoenix
12.63 seconds of Ifrit
12.05 seconds of Titan
10.29 seconds of Garuda

Roughly 50.97 seconds. So after Bahamut/Phoenix you only need to spend 10 seconds or 5 GCDs before continuing to summon chain again.

Bahamut > Arcanum > Filler > Phoenix > Arcanum > Filler > Repeat

Filler is probably going to be Ruin 3, ED/ES, Fester/Pain, Ruin 4. I suspect Ruin 3 and Fester/Pain/Ruin 4 weaving will be a thing.

SMN will not want Spellspeed I don't think.

---

If I recall correctly, there's room for one ruin III and one ruin IV within one 60 second demi->Gemphase loop.
(Remember, ALL of your Summon X actions are SPELLS not abilities, so they trigger a gcd and prolong your time in their phase for that amount, and the cooldown for trance starts ticking as soon as you enter it.)
Bahamut phase: 15 seconds
Ifrit phase: 13.1 = (Summon ifrit (2.5s) + Ruby rites 2(2.8) + Crimson cyclone & crimson strike 2(2.5)) (Or, 12.8 if you swiftcast one of the rites)
Garuda phase: 12 = (Summon garuda (2.5s) + emerald rites 4(1.5) + slipstream (3.5))
Titan phase: 12.5 = (Summon titan (2.5s) + topaz rites 4(2.5))
(why is)Ruin IV(still a thing) = 2.5s
Which all together is 55.1s (54.8 if you swiftcasted ruby rite)
(if my numbers are off, yell at me. I'm operating on like 3 hrs of sleep, and I have fatigue induced dyscalcula. @_@)


So that's one (maaaaaaaaaaybe two if you have jpn ping and swifted your ruby rite) ruin III(s) you can cast before you need to get a hustle on with your demi timers. It's going to be VERY rough for players who aren't confident with their rotation, as the cast windows are now very tight.
And since your demi phase should be matching up with your group's burst and buff windows (since we're all synced to around 60s - 120s) you wanna fit your aetherflows into your demi phases for that extra FREE DAMAGE with all them juicy buffs (and comfy insta gcds to fit them in)

And, to MAKE GEARING HELLISH, our phase timer availability is dictated by our spellspeed (Summon bahamut cd, the speed at which we can blast through our rites, etc).... there has been some cursed discussions going on about how spsd will fit into our gearing... I have been ignoring these discussions, because I know the conclusion will hurt my soul. (Also, fun fact. our cpm will be about the same as it is now. potentially faster with spellspeed. Better fire up those "carpal tunnel" memes!)

(Also a point of critique, It shouldn't be a good thing if Job A reminds you of Job B if Job B and Job A are within the same roles. :T That's like, my biggest complaint. SMN was a unique caster with arcane spells, pet management, and status effect management. Now all the casters are elemental direct damage nukers. It's all very samey. But hey, SE drew a smiley face on our fireball... grumble grumble)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rewd

Elemental summons are a replacement for Egi Assaults and Enkindle, not DoTs. SMN lost DoTs and got nothing in return.

---

Egi assaults were more than just pet flavored instant casts, they were a resource you had to manage, and a priority branching point for mobility risk/reward.
The "button press asap to wield a primal like a bat for one singular whack" summons and "get through these gcds as fast as possible to not slide into drift hell" gemshine/precious brilliance spells don't really replace the core functions and payoffs of proper egi assaults/ruin IV usage. They're closer to current ruin III/II, (Are you supposed to be doing something different? If not, spam this) or "oops all phoenix trance!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roda

Egi assaults were more than just pet flavored instant casts, they were a resource you had to manage, and a priority branching point for mobility risk/reward.
The "button press asap to wield a primal like a bat for one singular whack" summons and "get through these gcds as fast as possible to not slide into drift hell" gemshine/precious brilliance spells don't really replace the core functions and payoffs of proper egi assaults/ruin IV usage. They're closer to current ruin III/II, (Are you supposed to be doing something different? If not, spam this) or "oops all phoenix trance!"

---

I know, I'm not comparing them from a mechanical standpoint (because they are not the same, sadly), but thematically they are replacing our old pet actions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rewd

I know, I'm not comparing them from a mechanical standpoint (because they are not the same, sadly), but thematically they are replacing our old pet actions.

---

Fair point.
(but also no because particle effects aren't replacements for friendly cooperation >:c)

At least I keep my sparkle dog!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roda

If I recall correctly, there's room for one ruin III and one ruin IV within one 60 second demi->Gemphase loop.
(Remember, ALL of your Summon X actions are SPELLS not abilities, so they trigger a gcd and prolong your time in their phase for that amount, and the cooldown for trance starts ticking as soon as you enter it.)
Bahamut phase: 15 seconds
Ifrit phase: 13.1 = (Summon ifrit (2.5s) + Ruby rites 2(2.8) + Crimson cyclone & crimson strike 2(2.5)) (Or, 12.8 if you swiftcast one of the rites)
Garuda phase: 12 = (Summon garuda (2.5s) + emerald rites 4(1.5) + slipstream (3.5))
Titan phase: 12.5 = (Summon titan (2.5s) + topaz rites 4(2.5))
(why is)Ruin IV(still a thing) = 2.5s
Which all together is 55.1s (54.8 if you swiftcasted ruby rite)
(if my numbers are off, yell at me. I'm operating on like 3 hrs of sleep, and I have fatigue induced dyscalcula. @_@)

---

Dunno if any of our numbers are off my metric is strictly using the GCD recast times(not the cast time) which disregards any abilities that are off the GCD. If the rotation is actually 55 seconds before popping Phoenix that really only leaves time for Fester/Pain Weaves and one Ruin 3 > Ruin 4.

I think if players like MCH they will like SMN. SMN is going to become the most mobile caster due to how now 90% of their kit is INSTANT. It's amazingly good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

This doesn't sound quite right. Summoner is losing...
DOT Management
Tri-disaster cooldown management
Pet management
Consideration of Egi-Assault and Ruin 4 usage such that you have Ruin 4s for Bahamut or weaving, and egi-assaults for movement, without overcapping when you go into a demi-phase

And what do we get in exchange? We get the most boring part of the existing kit, hitting two buttons during Phoenix phase, except that is now the entire job.

---

I don't think you are being fair to the job in your list, and giving it more complexity through your wording than it actually has in practice.

DoT management, as I said. And actually you can bake Tri-Disaster cooldown "management" which wasn't a real thing, the flow of the rotation made it automatic, not something to actually micro-manage. Losing DoT uptime was very hard, you had three Tri-D applications and one manual application every 30 seconds.

Pet management, whatdo you mean by that? As of 5.X, you press Egi Assaults, and Enkindle once every two minutes. That's not management, and besides that's not going away either. You'll still have a carbuncle, you'll still have an equivalent to Egi Assaults which change based on the elemental summon and have micro mecanics within, as Titan has an oGCD weaving part and movement, Ifrit has a melee component, and I forgot about Garuda, apart from the puddle lol- but that's more ellaborated in my opinion than Egi Assaults into Ruin 4, as you will want to plan you elemental summons according to mechanics, within the time frame between two trances. I'm not saying it's big brain complexity level, but it's something to consider. And I'm certain we will still have to fight ghosting, so I guess you can call that "pet management" especially with Carbuncle disappearing even more often because of the Summons. Now between 3.0 / 4.0 and 5.0 I would agree we lost management because the pet's position and health pool had implications (I remember losing my carbuncle to Kefka's tank buster quite a lot).

I do agree with you that it makes Bahamut more simple by not having to prepare it with the Ruin IV stacks. But I'm not ruling out the idea that the job's flow might create new opportunities of optimization with its new system either.


I'm not saying 6.0 will be the best implementation of SMN ever, don't get me wrong. I was just talking about how in comparison to MCH and DRK which were indeed made easier, it doesn't seem that apparent in SMN as of today with the info we have. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Dunno if any of our numbers are off my metric is strictly using the GCD recast times(not the cast time) which disregards any abilities that are off the GCD. If the rotation is actually 55 seconds before popping Phoenix that really only leaves time for Fester/Pain Weaves and one Ruin 3 > Ruin 4.

I think if players like MCH they will like SMN. SMN is going to become the most mobile caster due to how now 90% of their kit is INSTANT. It's amazingly good.

---

I am also using the recast timers with zero spellspeed(or cast time, if it's longer than the recast, basically just how much time you're NOT pushing other buttons.)
If you're looking at media tour tooltips, remember, they had spellspeed on their gear which both changes the cast times and the recast times of every ability that isn't connected to aetherflow, astral flow, or the carbuncle, which means the demi phases get pushed closer together as their cooldowns are affected by spellspeed. (Aaaannnd that means, the more spellspeed you have, the more potential you have to lose a ruin 3, since garuda's gcds (that aren't slipstream) literally cannot go any lower since they've hit the floor of 1.5s)

And remember, you want to fit all the damage you can under buffs, so that means you will be lining up your demi phases and aetherflow spending with those buffs. (Searing light, and whatever group buffs you have) the timers for all of those things line up, so you really shouldn't be sitting on stacks during the demi phases or spending them outside of those phases unless something has gone seriously wrong.

And just wait until we get hit with the range AND utility AND now mobility tax. :T

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roda

And just wait until we get hit with the range AND utility AND now mobility tax. :T

---

Doubt it, the devs have caster bias and will just nerf WHM or Bard instead. And current SMN already has all three of those and was only barely slapped on the wrist. If any caster is getting nerfs it'll probably be Red Mage. That Embolden change is too great to ignore as it'll now affect the majority of Ninja's Mudras, the entirety of Paladin's Requiescat/Blade phase, other casters in the party and the healers.

Yeah I feel like Red Mage will get shit on and it's going to be BLM > SMN > RDM on the virtue that RDM can Raise frequently and can offheal. When given the mobility I feel it should be BLM(cast times) > RDM(dualcast) > SMN(instants).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roda

If I recall correctly, there's room for one ruin III and one ruin IV within one 60 second demi->Gemphase loop.
(Remember, ALL of your Summon X actions are SPELLS not abilities, so they trigger a gcd and prolong your time in their phase for that amount, and the cooldown for trance starts ticking as soon as you enter it.)
Bahamut phase: 15 seconds
Ifrit phase: 13.1 = (Summon ifrit (2.5s) + Ruby rites 2(2.8) + Crimson cyclone & crimson strike 2(2.5)) (Or, 12.8 if you swiftcast one of the rites)
Garuda phase: 12 = (Summon garuda (2.5s) + emerald rites 4(1.5) + slipstream (3.5))
Titan phase: 12.5 = (Summon titan (2.5s) + topaz rites 4(2.5))
(why is)Ruin IV(still a thing) = 2.5s
Which all together is 55.1s (54.8 if you swiftcasted ruby rite)

---

looks about right , intersting thing about spell speed is that if we go into that we can put another/s Demi phases into the encounter boosting our dmg , but ....what happens to trick attack/other buffs window ? thats need to be kept in mind gaining 2-3 phases is nice but if only the 1 and the 3rd are on dps window...maybe isnt that good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roda

I am also using the recast timers with zero spellspeed(or cast time, if it's longer than the recast, basically just how much time you're NOT pushing other buttons.)
If you're looking at media tour tooltips, remember, they had spellspeed on their gear which both changes the cast times and the recast times of every ability that isn't connected to aetherflow, astral flow, or the carbuncle, which means the demi phases get pushed closer together as their cooldowns are affected by spellspeed. (Aaaannnd that means, the more spellspeed you have, the more potential you have to lose a ruin 3, since garuda's gcds (that aren't slipstream) literally cannot go any lower since they've hit the floor of 1.5s)

And remember, you want to fit all the damage you can under buffs, so that means you will be lining up your demi phases and aetherflow spending with those buffs. (Searing light, and whatever group buffs you have) the timers for all of those things line up, so you really shouldn't be sitting on stacks during the demi phases or spending them outside of those phases unless something has gone seriously wrong.

And just wait until we get hit with the range AND utility AND now mobility tax. :T

---

quoted u too soon i guess hahaha

Oh they're definitely gonna keep smn strong for now gotta entice people to play this whole new job they spent all that time reworking. But later on... idk. It'll depend on how they perceive the execution of the few hardcasts we do have vs the availability of instants during the rest of the rotation. I'm hoping they'll grow out of mobility = bad raw damage...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warlyx

looks about right , intersting thing about spell speed is that if we go into that we can put another/s Demi phases into the encounter boosting our dmg , but ....what happens to trick attack/other buffs window ? thats need to be kept in mind gaining 2-3 phases is nice but if only the 1 and the 3rd are on dps window...maybe isnt that good.

---

I said it was cursed xD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MercuryD

At least I keep my sparkle dog!

---

All glory be to the sparkle dog.

Guess the only thing to do now is enjoy the final days left until 2.X ~ 5.X SMN is put down.

We don't really have a thread for SMN so I'll just write here.

Sooo... SMN already desperately needs oGCDs and they reduced them even more by merging the two Enkindle. While 1300p is juicy... I want to press buttons.

Thoughts?

We need more than just hollow ogcds to push as soon as they're up. We need things to track, manage, and build outside of ABCs. Cause my main worry is that its gonna feel like the game is playing you more than you're playing the game. (Have I mentioned how much I hate demis being mere cooldowns to wait for, and gems being gcd checklists?) What is there is a start but it just doesn't look finished. (At least not fully realized)

It just feels like we're missing a whole mechanic to tie it all together, and one or two nuke ogcds isn't gonna resolve that.

/end sleepy rambling

I genuinely feel like this feels like a START to be built upon. I like the logical evolution of the job from low to high level. I think it will be fun, I don't care for complexity in the slightest. Hopefully they build up to more using this system as a ground work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MercuryD

I genuinely feel like this feels like a START to be built upon. I like the logical evolution of the job from low to high level. I think it will be fun, I don't care for complexity in the slightest. Hopefully they build up to more using this system as a ground work.

---

Mmh, people said the same thing at the start of Shadowbringers with Machinist, that it was surely just a base and they'd build on it for this expansion. And what did they get? One extra GCD that literally just does damage and doesn't interact with their kit.

So, new summoner is pretty rDPS-feeling which is...certainly different.

Also, it is entirely possible to clip Searing Light (devotion). TL;DR of a way to replicate it. Movement + shield + searing light + summon bahamut/phoenix.

I tried during a dungeon to searing light immediately before summon while stationary, doing a ruin 3->searing light->summon bahamut (so minimum and expected amount of use) and it didn't clip once. It seems you have to explicitly go out of your way to clip the pet commands. Even if you're stationary doing something like Ruin 4->Shield->Searing->Summon it doesn't clip. I need more testing of movement E.G. ruin 2->searing->demi but, again, I kind of tried that and it didn't clip, as long as you don't overload the pet.

As a note, the pet being required to shield is a problem because it's down for 35 seconds out of every minute (15s for demis, 5s each for the summons) so the barrier is honestly almost as bad as it was in ShB.

More or less, this is a lot better than ShB excepting that barrier is just a bad ability, again, due to anti-synergy with the base rotation.

The class is simple in theory, but in practice it's constantly changing up the rotation. Even the GCD difference between a level 80 Garuda vs level 80 Titan feels very different in pacing and feel.

As for problems of the class that are obvious. The class has anxiety bars. You can squeeze 6 Fountain of Fires and Astral Impulses during DWT/FBT, but latency and slight timing means you can drop an entire cast. Most classes went AWAY from anxiety bars, it's weird this one went towards it when so much of the class..isn't. It really should be fixed to make it consistent and not prone to lag inconsistencies. As a note, the class also probably does want spell speed now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roda

We need more than just hollow ogcds to push as soon as they're up. We need things to track, manage, and build outside of ABCs. Cause my main worry is that its gonna feel like the game is playing you more than you're playing the game. (Have I mentioned how much I hate demis being mere cooldowns to wait for, and gems being gcd checklists?) What is there is a start but it just doesn't look finished. (At least not fully realized)

It just feels like we're missing a whole mechanic to tie it all together, and one or two nuke ogcds isn't gonna resolve that.

/end sleepy rambling

---

Yeah, of course, but we had two demi oGCDs and we lost one after the Media Tour. What's the point of playing SMN if I get less lasers?

That being said, yes, but we already knew it. There's no mechanic and we didn't need to get our hands on new SMN to confirm it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rewd

Yeah, of course, but we had two demi oGCDs and we lost one after the Media Tour. What's the point of playing SMN if I get less lasers?

That being said, yes, but we already knew it. There's no mechanic and we didn't need to get our hands on new SMN to confirm it.

---

Now, now hear me out. Tri-disaster is a mini-laser, and you get literal back to back deathflare/akh morn lasers. As in it's a rapid fire laser of doom.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taranok

Now, now hear me out. Tri-disaster is a mini-laser, and you get literal back to back deathflare/akh morn lasers. As in it's a rapid fire laser of doom.

---

Yeah but... We had back to back Deathflare and Morn and another Morn later :(

And actually, thinking about this made me remember how underwhelming Phoenix feels now. Rekindle is whatever and I miss the 1-2 combo, a lot.

I came to the forums today to touch on this exact issue. SMN compared to any other job feels incomplete and simple. I have buttons to press for Single Target and buttons for Multi-Target. I have no combos, really, I am just counting how many casts I am making and being cautious of the Ifrit phase.

It's truly a class of different tempos and cadences now. I feel it's missing something but mostly just needs to have this new gimmick refined moreso than specifically scrapped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bonkleberry

I came to the forums today to touch on this exact issue. SMN compared to any other job feels incomplete and simple. I have buttons to press for Single Target and buttons for Multi-Target. I have no combos, really, I am just counting how many casts I am making and being cautious of the Ifrit phase.

---

Level 80 SMN feels so incomplete and it is so painful. I did a run of Paglth'an and the job felt so boring and uneventful.

It will get get better at level 86 (which is too late), but even then...

Honestly, it feels very very basic. Same level of play at level 50 as it is at 80.

You do your Trance then spam ruin for 15 seconds, pick a Primal and spam either single target or AoE, repeat. Toss in a few ED and Fester for good measure. Lv. 86 only adds Deathflare button to the mix but no super change there. Ruin Mage 2.0 in my opinion.

Carbuncle is useless now and keeping "Devotion" on carbuncle only compounded the issue we have had for four years now because we can't use it during Demi or Primal states.

im fairly sure that demis will get the old phoenix treatment , and that elemental summons maybe gain a 3rd skill or somekind of interaction down the road , the job change is in the right direction but feel a bit "barebones" tbh .

its fun? yes
its cool? yes

will the honeymoon last? ...who knows.

So, can confirm you can unintentionally clip searing light without intending or trying to.

Fantastic. Additional flaws I've noticed. Ruby/Topaz carbuncle/egi gems are hilariously unreliable at AoE. They have a really short radius AoE but they basically run to max melee and fire it with whatever mob you targeted, meaning its AoE often hits 1-3 targets instead of the entire group. Garuda/emerald's fine though, that's actually Garuda's enkindle, centered on target.

Sooner or later, Levi, Shiva and Alex will be here (if by 2030).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlphaRain

Sooner or later, Levi, Shiva and Alex will be here (if by 2030).

---

I'd assume Levi, Shiva, and Ramuh. Hopefully with their own mechanics to spice things up, rather than the fear of Ice Ifrit, water Garuda, and Lightning Titan. (Not the least because Ramuh doesn't logically play anything like Titan, though that may be why they made the nigh incomprehensible choice of making Titan the quick movement weaving summon)