The New Sage Icon, Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Trobon

I think the point, from SE’s perspective was that a group of their players was having an extremely adverse reaction to a class logo due to a phobia they have no control over and that it was something SE themselves could easily fix. Sometimes people have this thing called empathy which allows them to think about what it would feel like to be in someone else’s place which helps them react to those people’s feelings accordingly.

I hope that clears things up for you.

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Right, and plenty of people have extremely averse reactions to spiders, colors, math, balloons, mirrors, belly-buttons. Literally close your eyes and think of a thing or concept that exists and there's a phobia tied to it.

I understand having empathy, but you have to know where to draw the line. From SE's perspective, I don't see the point in creating the impression that they'll action their content based on extremely obscure sensibilities from individuals or small groups.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

It was a trivial change for a (to you) trivial request.

They're still free to ignore any and all feedback they don't deem worth the time or effort, and I'm sure they will.

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Right, and based on peoples expectations they'll receive criticism for what they do/don't deem is worth their time and effort. By creating this impression that they'll bend to rare and individual sensibilities they're just opening themselves up for future criticism when they inevitably don't live up to that.

I literally have to play parts of Sastasha and Shisui my eyes closed because of this. Can we have some sort of option in game to turn those elements off too?

I think the new one looks a bit better.

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Originally Posted by Stackbabber

I literally have to play parts of Sastasha and Shisui my eyes closed because of this. Can we have some sort of option in game to turn those elements off too?

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You're not the first person to make mention of this in the thread and I gave some thought on it. I believe the difference between the Sage Icon and those dungeons is the fact that the Sage icon is going to be on merchandise products. Not just official merch but also Esty stuff and fan projects and other various things. The stuff found in those dungeons doesn't have the same weight in that regard. When this stuff is on merch, it basically represents the identity of the game as a whole. So I think a phobia on a job icon is much more significant than stuff found in dungeons. Because the spread of the merchandise and fan projects will also increase the spread of the phobia being see. It's no longer condensed to a single part of the game but is instead spread by both consumers and content creators alike. And when this stuff spreads, then it begins to be considered "normalized". Which attempting to normalize something that in turn is found disgusting by a part of the community, is not a good outlook for their brand. This is further amplified by the fact that when people who don't play the game also see the Job icon on merch, it may turn them off from trying the game or triggering those that don't even know the origin of the icon. It's actually a very huge deal when you think about it in a big picture.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

So, they just announced a redesign of the Sage Icon, as seen in this post here,

Sage Icon Changes

What are peoples thoughts. I can see the reason for the change but feel they could of went with a better alternative. Like why not mimic the wing shape the make along the players back. I'm sure the new icon will grow on us, similar to how Gunbreaker's did, but what do people think?

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The absurdities of civilization.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Right, and plenty of people have extremely adverse reactions to spiders, colors, math, balloons, mirrors, belly-buttons. Literally close your eyes and think of a thing or concept that exists and there's a phobia tied to it.

I understand having empathy, but you have to know where to draw the line. From SE's perspective, I don't see the point in creating the impression that they'll action their content based on extremely obscure sensibilities from individuals or small groups.

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They did this because it is the job icon and people have the icons in their actionbars or party frames constantly visible. I know it's hard to understand when you don't have it, but I'm very grateful for the change and that they actually listen to players on these things.

I literally have to play parts of Sastasha and Shisui my eyes closed or the camera zoomed all the way in because of some of the assets in these dungeons. I wish they had an option to turn these things off too.

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Originally Posted by Stackbabber

They did this because it is the job icon and people have the icons in their actionbars or party frames constantly visible. I know it's hard to understand when you don't have it, but I'm very grateful for the change and that they actually listen to players on these things.

I literally have to play parts of Sastasha and Shisui my eyes closed or the camera zoomed all the way in because of some of the assets in these dungeons. I wish they had an option to turn these things off too.

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Don't get me wrong, if it helps you then I'm happy for you. I'm not outraged and demanding SE change it back or anything.

I still don't believe doing this actually benefits SE overall, though.

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/imag...ker_Icon_3.png

But this one's okay? Give me a break.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Don't get me wrong, if it helps you then I'm happy for you. I'm not outraged and demanding SE change it back or anything.

I still don't believe doing this actually benefits SE overall, though.

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Transparency and wanting to look good as a result of it. That's likely all there is to it from a business perspective. It's probably no coincidence that they've been laying it on extra thick lately considering recent events with another game studio. So yeah, it probably does benefit SE, at least in the short term. The dev team has seemed overall to genuinely care about the game and its players, but something about this particular change seems like strategic PR to me. Either way though it's definitely harmless enough in the grand scheme of things.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Don't get me wrong, if it helps you then I'm happy for you. I'm not outraged and demanding SE change it back or anything.

I still don't believe doing this actually benefits SE overall, though.

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See there you go again. It benefits SE because they were able to help other human beings with little effort. The fact that you think there needs to be value in this decision beyond that flabbergasts me.

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Originally Posted by Trobon

See there you go again. It benefits SE because they were able to help other human beings with little effort. The fact that you think there needs to be value in this decision beyond that flabbergasts me.

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That's not a benefit to SE; that's just altruism. It makes SE look good now, but it will also be a precedent to reference in disappointment when SE can't/won't show similar consideration in the future. Impractical altruism can often be bad for a companies image in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Transparency and wanting to look good as a result of it. That's likely all there is to it from a business perspective. It's probably no coincidence that they've been laying it on extra thick lately considering recent events with another game studio. So yeah, it probably does benefit SE, at least in the short term. The dev team has seemed overall to genuinely care about the game and its players, but something about this particular change seems like strategic PR to me. Either way though it's definitely harmless enough in the grand scheme of things.

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SE going over the top in an attempt to contrast WoWs recent issues is an interesting take. SE doing this now to further capitalize on WoWs problems is an argument for the benefits of this I can buy into.

Needless to say, this thread is literally twitter overflowing.
How low can some people get damn

I think one of the other things to think about is this change does nothing to lessen the perception that the Japanese playerbase is listened to more than anyone else.

Because there have been loads of things brought up on other forums but it seems that the devs only really address issues that come from the Japanese forums.

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Originally Posted by Big_Bap

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/imag...ker_Icon_3.png

But this one's okay? Give me a break.

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Well you see, LTW is old news. Sage is the new shiny thing so it’s much easier to get people’s attention with that than something that’s been in the game for awhile that no ones complained about hehe.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Transparency and wanting to look good as a result of it. That's likely all there is to it from a business perspective. It's probably no coincidence that they've been laying it on extra thick lately considering recent events with another game studio. So yeah, it probably does benefit SE, at least in the short term. The dev team has seemed overall to genuinely care about the game and its players, but something about this particular change seems like strategic PR to me. Either way though it's definitely harmless enough in the grand scheme of things.

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Having seen several such rather fake gestures from Blizzard, many of which were received poorly, I doubt this will do much to impress many from the WoW newcomer demographic, anyhow. Maybe some will take the bait.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

SE going over the top in an attempt to contrast WoWs recent issues is an interesting take. SE doing this now to further capitalize on WoWs problems is an argument for the benefits of this I can buy into.

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Food for thought, mostly. Businesses gonna business. :p

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Having seen several such rather fake gestures from Blizzard, many of which were received poorly, I doubt this will do much to impress many from the WoW newcomer demographic, anyhow. Maybe some will take the bait.

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Maybe. Even so, it might not be about the change itself. The transparency they have shown is a pretty big thing in an industry full of mistrust.

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Originally Posted by Big_Bap

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/imag...ker_Icon_3.png

But this one's okay? Give me a break.

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Pretty sure they aren't holes. Those are different colored fur splotches.

A hide with that many holes in it is useless.

But keep at it folks.

If they're willing to make changes like that, then they can update the character creator >:)

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Pretty sure they aren't holes. Those are different colored fur splotches.

A hide with that many holes in it is useless.

But keep at it folks.

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Same background color.

https://i.imgur.com/Q8MVmV9.png

Also, how do you know an entire animal hide with holes in it is useless?

Truth hurts?

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Originally Posted by Big_Bap

Same background color.

https://i.imgur.com/Q8MVmV9.png

Also, how do you know an entire animal hide with holes in it is useless?

Truth hurts?

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Because it is as a hide? And it's not the same color. They are black splotches, not gray.

Have you ever seen a deer hide?


And I'm not the one throwing a fit over a job icon change lmao.

This seems like such a non issue that I'm surprised they felt the need to explain changing the icon and that anyone has particularly strong feelings either way about the change in design regardless of the explanation. Outside of people with actual said phobias who may have personally been affected.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Pretty sure they aren't holes. Those are different colored fur splotches.

A hide with that many holes in it is useless.

But keep at it folks.

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“Trypophobia is an aversion to the sight of irregular patterns or clusters of small holes or bumps.”
It aint just holes sis.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

And I'm not the one throwing a fit over a job icon change lmao.

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Nobody is 'throwing a fit', though.

The people who are outraged are those launching personal attacks at anyone who is indifferent or refusing to clap and cheer as is a common tactic in this day and age. Speaking out in a discussion thread isn't equal to outrage.

Unless, of course, you're referring to those self-same people?

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

“Trypophobia is an aversion to the sight of irregular patterns or clusters of small holes or bumps.”
It aint just holes sis.

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You right sis, but the leatherworker one I wouldn't call irregular.

Those are mostly symmetrical.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Because it is as a hide? And it's not the same color. They are black splotches, not gray.

Have you ever seen a deer hide?


And I'm not the one throwing a fit over a job icon change lmao.

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I know what deer hide looks like. I know hide can be repaired if it is "fresh" enough.

I'm pointing the obvious, you're the one trying to tell other people that holes in a hide aren't actual holes, but splotches?

I guess the black/white highlights around your so-called splotches are totally not an indication that there is a perception of depth/3d. Look at how the top is brighter while the bottom is darker. Do you know how light works?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Nobody is 'throwing a fit', though.

The people who are outraged are those launching personal attacks at anyone who is indifferent or refusing to clap and cheer as is a common tactic in this day and age. Speaking out in a discussion thread isn't equal to outrage.

Unless, of course, you're referring to those self-same people?

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I don't know, I see far more people upset at the change. Again, this should have just been "Oh no! Anyway...."

A rose by any other name

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Nobody is 'throwing a fit', though.

The people who are outraged are those launching personal attacks at anyone who is indifferent or refusing to clap and cheer as is a common tactic in this day and age. Speaking out in a discussion thread isn't equal to outrage.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

This sets a dangerous precedent.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm getting worried about Endwalker.

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Now c'mon now.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Again, this should have just been "Oh no! Anyway...."

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That's probably the case for most people on and off the forums. I know it is for me. This thread is mostly the same group of people expressing their discontent over and over with the rest wondering what the big deal is. That's their right, but...I think they are making a big deal out of something small.

I don't understand why so many people in this thread seem to lack empathy and common sense. It's such a small change to be somehow upset over.

While I do not particularly care about filling the holes, i do mind about changing the orientation of the side noliths.
This changes my perception of the icon from being "serious" to a more "festival"
This looks like a confetti now

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Now c'mon now.

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That's not throwing a fit, though. It's expressing concern by weighing in on an issue.

Throwing a fit would be an angry rant and attacking other posters - which I have most certainly not done.

Though the simply fact that so many in this thread seem to think it is perfectly acceptable to accuse others of lacking empathy as well as imply that they're bad people for not jumping with joy each and every time a company does something like this says it all, really.

For starters, it reveals that the self-same individuals aren't actually all that virtuous after all - but as we've seen with certain companies and famous individuals of late, the louder one is about their supposed tolerance and virtue the more skeletons they have hidden within their closet.

That yet another 'empathy' comment was made right as I typed this up is but the icing on the cake. Wondrous timing, really.

I want to make some clarifaction, why I dont like the new icon.

First of all, I plan to be Sage main. I practised alot as Noct-AST and since the new AST will be WHM 2.0, I want to stick with the new shield healer. And lets be honest, those nouliths are lit. Its like MCH with shields and lasers. And I totally love the ne AF gear.

I have no problems with removing the holes. In my opinion it sounds a bit ridicilous to be afraid of 3 1/2 holes in a tiny job icon. But who am I to judge about that? SE could make that change without any reason and I would be ok with that. I assume, the holes represent the magitek (?) nature of the nouliths.

What really bothers me is, that SE didnt remove ALL the holes (one is still there). And they changed the angle, position and size of all nouliths within the new icon.

In the old version, all nouliths got the same size and angle, perfectly alligned. The the old icon represent this job almost perfectly. With the new icon, one noulith is way bigger, while the other 2 are awkward aligned. And the last one even have a hole in it. I guess SE wants to add some perspektive to it. But it doesnt match with the other plain job icons now.

Or in short: SE changed the icon from a perfect, symmetrical design to something chaotic and ugly. There was no need for such a drastic change.

Here is the "new" one. One with a hole, one big and two which have a weird angle now. It looks like it represents something sexual in my opinion xD
https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/4d...png?1627637157

This is my redesign I posted on page 19. No holes. No angles. All identical. Like the nouliths in the game. The top one isnt perfect (sorry).
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...6OX0AMp1Mh.png

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That's not throwing a fit, though. It's expressing concern by weighing in on an issue.

Throwing a fit would be an angry rant and attacking other posters - which I have most certainly not done.

Though the simply fact that so many in this thread seem to think it is perfectly acceptable to accuse others of lacking empathy as well as imply that they're bad people for not jumping with joy each and every time a company does something like this says it all, really.

For starters, it reveals that the self-same individuals aren't actually all that virtuous after all - but as we've seen with certain companies and famous individuals of late, the louder one is about their supposed tolerance and virtue the more skeletons they have hidden within their closet.

That yet another 'empathy' comment was made right as I typed this up is but the icing on the cake. Wondrous timing, really.

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All they do is ad hominen.
Attack the person, not the topic at hand; the few same people have perfected the use of it.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

That's probably the case for most people on and off the forums. I know it is for me. This thread is mostly the same group of people expressing their discontent over and over with the rest wondering what the big deal is. That's their right, but...I think they are making a big deal out of something small.

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And one can make the same statement about the thread originating the request. So there we have it.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You right sis, but the leatherworker one I wouldn't call irregular.

Those are mostly symmetrical.

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I wouldn't say the sage one was irregular either. The image is pretty symmetrical.

I am curious where this outrage for its old version even came from. I saw 0 of it on the forums, on reddit, or any social media.

And just because someone has a phobia doesn't mean everything needs a change around it. I, for example, have a fear of heights. While I can generally hold it off somewhat in the game, some stuff (one of the leap of faith maps) easily sets it off if I fall, and I have to take a few seconds to back up and not panic.

But I never have once asked for that map to go or be changed, because my phobia's shouldn't dictate how things are.

Heck, this isn't an exact example of this game, but on WoW in BFA there was an entire section of a zone for giant bees. While leveling to see BFA's story alliance side, I had to go through that, and I am horribly terrified of bees. It was torture to get through that, and that is coupled with the fact that hunters even could tame giant bees and that meant any content I did with a hunter ran that risk, permanently.

... Not once did I request change on that. My phobia should not dictate the game. It's terrible to fight through it, but just because something scares me, doesn't mean everyone else needs to deal with it.

Also I hope these guys don't look at some tank gear, with obvious holes like chainmail, lol.

It does look like an orgy now, the perfect healer icon.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That's not throwing a fit, though. It's expressing concern by weighing in on an issue.

Throwing a fit would be an angry rant and attacking other posters - which I most certainly not done.

Though the simply fact that so many in this thread seem to think it is perfectly acceptable to accuse others of lacking empathy as well as imply that they're bad people for not jumping with joy each and every time a company does something like this says it all, really.

For starters, it reveals that the self-same individuals aren't actually all that virtuous after all - but as we've seen with certain companies and famous individuals of late, the louder one is about their supposed tolerance and virtue the more skeletons they have hidden within their closet.

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I didn't say you were throwing a fit, but you sure don't sound indifferent and "refusing to clap and cheer".

They made a post about the fact they changed it and why, I don't see any patting themselves on the back or making themselves appear to be more "tolerant" or "virtuous" because they did it, you're imaging scenarios and getting worked up about it.

The fact that you would drag the current Blizzard mess into this is just gross.

I'm critical of those who blame phobias for things. I'm not one for hand holding those with phobias, as I have suffered deeply from a life debilitating phobia (chrysophobia - I know, don't laugh) for years and got help for it. I hate it when people squeal when they see pictures of spiders because "my phobias". Phobias can be cured and people just don't want to make the effort to fix it. Perhaps that is a cold take, but it is how I feel.

That being said, I can't understand how people equate a simple, non-consequential change to the UI that probably took them 5 minutes to removing actual content like mobs and environmental pieces from the game.

It's like if there was a party and there just happened to be a tarantula in the center of the room. The tarantula doesn't need to be there, and it takes 2 seconds to remove it if someone didn't like it being there. It won't change the party in the slightest (unless it's a spider party). You don't have to mock people for it, or criticize the person who removed the spider. Or wonder if all parties from now on will be empty rooms because one spider was removed once and people will ask for everything to be removed, because that's a gigantic leap to make.

It was just a simple, nice gesture to something that was highly requested on the JP forums. Nothing more and nothing less.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

I didn't say you were throwing a fit, but you sure don't sound indifferent and "refusing to clap and cheer".

They made a post about the fact they changed it and why, I don't see any patting themselves on the back or making themselves appear to be more "tolerant" or "virtuous" because they did it, you're imaging scenarios and getting worked up about it.

The fact that you would drag the current Blizzard mess into this is just gross.

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I'm really failing to understand your point here. Expressing a concern as to how this might affect other areas of the expansion design is just "imaging" scenarios? With the dearth of MMOs as things stand, he is perfectly within his right to be concerned that yet another one might end up becoming a poor fit for his tastes.

By the by, his point is not "gross" - it is exactly the sort of scepticism these companies should be met with. If you are sentimentally attached to SE, so be it, but not all of us are.