Fake FCs' Housing Abuse

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Originally Posted by PaalHenrik

Are you still mad that the mods closed your thread?

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Unless the mod lied to everyone that thread accomplished it's intended purpose with flying colors lmao.
I actually don't remember the last time I even saw a moderator mentioning the feedback was gonna be forwarded to the appropriate parties in the housing subforum.

It's the textbook diplomatic way to politely send a thread off into the sunset and hopefully prevent it from being made a second, third, or fiftieth time.

I'm sure it was probably forwarded to the community rep team in some fashion, but 'Senior GM rolls by and locks the thread' is.. let's say pretty unusual compared to most feedback threads that earn a response and how they are typically handled. That thread must have been generating a comical amount of reporting. Given how bad the posting is around here on average, I can only dream that it heralds a more aggressive moderation stance.

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

Unless the mod lied to everyone that thread accomplished it's intended purpose with flying colors lmao.
I actually don't remember the last time I even saw a moderator mentioning the feedback was gonna be forwarded to the appropriate parties in the housing subforum.

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SE is famous for cut and paste responses. Do you need a top up of tin foil?

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

Unless the mod lied to everyone that thread accomplished it's intended purpose with flying colors lmao.
I actually don't remember the last time I even saw a moderator mentioning the feedback was gonna be forwarded to the appropriate parties in the housing subforum.

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I remember one response from 2017 of a feature that still isn't in the game. Don't get too excited lmao.

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Originally Posted by Luxpheras

Hello again, Eorzeans.

We appreciate your continued feedback on the subject of unlocking the variances in appearance of the Hempen set across all races.

It looks like an overwhelming majority of you are very interested in this! As such, we have forwarded this feedback to the development team. In response, they would like to let you know that they are considering this for a future update! :D

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Don't worry we'll just keep submitting feedback and informing the players about it either way.
If it didn't work we would still have rules that allow for multiple personals to be bought by 1 character.

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

Don't worry we'll just keep submitting feedback and informing the players about it either way.
If it didn't work we would still have rules that allow for multiple personals to be bought by 1 character.

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Why do you think other players are ignorant and need to be informed by you?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Why do you think other players are ignorant and need to be informed by you?

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Because until one month ago I had zero idea of any of this.

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Originally Posted by CatStarwind

Because until one month ago I had zero idea of any of this.

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You still have zero idea and it becomes more apparent with your piggybacking on others' threads, bringing up dead threads where much of the information no longer applies, and when one thing that pisses you off doesn't pan out, you find another until that pisses you off.

The 1 service account, 1 world, 1 personal and 1 FC dates back to 2018. Even 3 years ago they attempted to patch the exploit but had to roll it back due to technical limitations.

So contrary to lies previously told, they are still very much relevant.

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Originally Posted by CatStarwind

The 1 service account, 1 world, 1 personal and 1 FC dates back to 2018. Even 3 years ago they attempted to patch the exploit but had to roll it back due to technical limitations.

So contrary to lies previously told, they are still very much relevant.

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You lost all credibility when you said you don't even support instanced housing (which would mean housing for everyone). Your one goal is to take what other people have because you personally don't like it, not to actually make housing better.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

You lost all credibility when you said you don't even support instanced housing (which would mean housing for everyone).

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Excuse me? We already have instanced housing, Apartments. I've even offered suggestions quite a few times on how to improve it.

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Originally Posted by CatStarwind

Excuse me? We already have instanced housing, Apartments. I've even offered suggestions quite a few times on how to improve it.

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Apartments are not instanced housing.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Apartments are not instanced housing.

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Not in a pure sense no but pragmatically they are an elegant compromise. They just need some love.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

Your one goal is to take what other people have because you personally don't like it, not to actually make housing better.

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My one goal is for an official statement on lodestone regarding the exploited loophole. You know, the thing that's actually taking what other people can have and actively making wards worse?

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Originally Posted by CatStarwind

My one goal is for an official statement on lodestone regarding the exploited loophole.

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The house purchasing guide is already on the lodestone, as well as the patch notes referencing it. I doubt they are going to repeat what is already written in plain English.

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Originally Posted by CatStarwind

Not in a pure sense no but pragmatically they are an elegant compromise. They just need some love.


My one goal is for an official statement on lodestone regarding the exploited loophole. You know, the thing that's actually taking what other people can have and actively making wards worse?

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The loops hole is on the lodestone. There's your answer. The mods have deleted two of your threads, locked the third. Is this your strategy now, unearth old posts because they won't give you what you're demanding?

No reason to ever stop until everything gets acknowledged by a mod!

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Originally Posted by Reinha

The house purchasing guide is already on the lodestone, as well as the patch notes referencing it. I doubt they are going to repeat what is already written in plain English.

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Yes, it currently reads that the requirement to purchase a plot is: "You do not have a character on the same World on the same service account that purchased and maintains a free company plot."

Coincidentally, it's against ToS to use exploits to circumvent documented requirements.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

The loops hole is on the lodestone.

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It is not. What is there is a consideration for an edge case. No where on there mentions or endorses breaking the listed requirement.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

The mods have deleted two of your threads, locked the third. Is this your strategy now, unearth old posts because they won't give you what you're demanding?

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They already gave me what "I" demanded, which is something that is more for the community than for me.

I'm not sure why you've resorted to such rapid fire fabrications. I have one locked thread, which is locked directly for the purposes it was made. That's it.

You would think if this really was a tiring point of contention that the clarification would be universally wanted by everyone. Especially since there is such confidence that SE sanctions multiple FC plot ownership with a single account on a single world. What's there to lose?

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

No reason to ever stop until everything gets acknowledged by a mod!

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You do that lmao ,keep up your crusade, it's very hilarious to see

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Apartments are not instanced housing.

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Apartments are instanced housing. What they are not is instanced houses.

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

No reason to ever stop until everything gets acknowledged by a mod!

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Why does getting acknowledged by the employee of a third party contractor mean so much to you?

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Originally Posted by CatStarwind

Yes, it currently reads that the requirement to purchase a plot is: "You do not have a character on the same World on the same service account that purchased and maintains a free company plot."

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If you have a character who maintains a plot but didn't purchase it, you can buy a plot on the same server.

If you have a character who purchased a plot but doesn't maintain it, you can buy a plot on the same server.

I don't know what more Square Enix can do for you if you are able to quote their rules and still not comprehend them.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Why does getting acknowledged by the employee of a third party contractor mean so much to you?

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Why does it mean so little to you? Especially if these threads are apparently tiring to constantly see? If I were so confident that a loophole was in fact intended I would love an official statement on it to point to rather than brow beat others to shut up.

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Originally Posted by CatStarwind

Why does it mean so little to you? Especially if these threads are apparently tiring to constantly see? If I were so confident that a loophole was in fact intended I would love an official statement on it to point to rather than brow beat others to shut up.

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Once again, you fail to understand the point. Allow me to state it more simply.

Moderators have nothing to do with the development of the game or the enforcement of the game rules. They aren't even employees of SE. Getting a response from them means nothing because they have no authority outside of moderating the forums for posts that violate the forum rules of conduct.

Getting a response from a Community Manager would mean something since they are SE employees and are the go-betweens for the community and the developers. The problem is their job is more than just reading the forums. They also have to monitor social media, coordinate publicity events, help with FanFest planning and multiple other tasks. So their messages reach a wider number of players, they're posting on social media or in the Lodestone topics instead of in the forums.

But if a pat on the head from a moderator is what you need, maybe you'll get lucky and one will give you that pat.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But if a pat on the head from a moderator is what you need, maybe you'll get lucky and one will give you that pat.

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Didn't that already happen? You still haven't answered my question, or any other I've ever posed now that I think about it. If this entire discussion is so meaningless to you why do you persist on participating in it?

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Originally Posted by CatStarwind

Didn't that already happen? You still haven't answered my question, or any other I've ever posed now that I think about it. If this entire discussion is so meaningless to you why do you persist on participating in it?

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That is the first valid thing he's said. Why are we continuing to feed into this?

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Originally Posted by CatStarwind

Didn't that already happen? You still haven't answered my question, or any other I've ever posed now that I think about it. If this entire discussion is so meaningless to you why do you persist on participating in it?

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There you go once again quoting me out of context. I've never said that the entire discussion is meaningless.

You're also not entitled to a special-tailored-just-for-you answer just because you ask a question, and especially not when answers have already been given in previous discussion.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

That is the first valid thing he's said. Why are we continuing to feed into this?

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Because it had been amusing for a while seeing what he would try next and if he would ever learn anything.

If it weren't for the fact that he keeps quoting me out of context, I would have stopped replying to him a while ago.

But seeing how he doesn't want to stop doing it, I'll just put him on my forum ignore list. Titanmen will stop being so lonely there.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I've never said that the entire discussion is meaningless.

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Not explicitly no. It was an observation of your general demeanor and effect on discussions. Your general nihilism is unhelpful, hence my question of why participate if you apparently seem to find it so pointless in affecting change.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You're also not entitled to a special-tailored-just-for-you answer just because you ask a question, and especially not when answers have already been given in previous discussion.

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I am not, but the community is. SE has yet to respond and it will most likely take some time to do so.

I can't say I've often seen eye to eye with Jojoya on matters of opinion, but it's so historically inaccurate to imply they're unhelpful in general that I'm surprised your pants haven't spontaneously caught fire.

I heard that if you stop giving attention to trolls, they stop begging for it.

https://i.imgur.com/NF50uTp.gif

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Originally Posted by CatStarwind

I am not, but the community is. SE has yet to respond and it will most likely take some time to do so.

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https://media.tenor.com/wIxFiobxxbIA...ameson-lol.gif

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Originally Posted by Sindele

I can't say I've often seen eye to eye with Jojoya on matters of opinion, but it's so historically inaccurate to imply they're unhelpful in general that I'm surprised your pants haven't spontaneously caught fire.

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Probably because I was specifically talking in this context, not in general. For whatever reason the loophole exploit is treated like a lost cause and any discussion to draw attention to it marginalized.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Okay buddy, obviously the devs disagree, so you can keep complaining about it as much as you want.

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Worth reminding everyone that the devs did attempt to patch it once so it's obvious that they agree. It's also obvious with things like Rank permissions being broken that the FC system as a whole is a disaster of code.

Honestly just requiring a FC to maintain a 4 person membership. If you have more then 1 character from the same service account join the FC; if you leave with 1 character you automatically leave with all of them.

Worst case scenario? You have someone in a "real" FC that gets inconvenienced because they want to pull themselves and their alts from the FC so they lose their rooms. This would mean a single service account could only maintain 2 Shell Fcs; so 4x less. Sure some folks are going to spend money for additional service accounts; but honestly your not going to make it impossible for folks to throw money at SE for stuff.

I'd also take it a step further and require new FC members be required to earn X amount of company credits with the FC before FC ownership can be transferred to them. This would be in addition to the 30 day transfer min requirement.

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

Honestly just requiring a FC to maintain a 4 person membership. If you have more then 1 character from the same service account join the FC; if you leave with 1 character you automatically leave with all of them.

Worst case scenario? You have someone in a "real" FC that gets inconvenienced because they want to pull themselves and their alts from the FC so they lose their rooms. This would mean a single service account could only maintain 2 Shell Fcs; so 4x less. Sure some folks are going to spend money for additional service accounts; but honestly your not going to make it impossible for folks to throw money at SE for stuff.

I'd also take it a step further and require new FC members be required to earn X amount of company credits with the FC before FC ownership can be transferred to them. This would be in addition to the 30 day transfer min requirement.

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I'm actually trying to puzzle out how this works.

So if I am in an FC on 3 alts, decide to move one of them to a friend's FC to help them with something that requires me to be in their FC, if I leave on that alt all three of my alts leave at the same time? How... exactly is that a good idea?

And it takes very little time or effort at all to generate FC credits.

There's better ways of doing this.

1. Close the loophole on bidding. Bidding can only be done by characters who have reached lvl 50 and gotten 2nd lieutenant with their grand company, the same requirements for buying personal housing. You can't buy an FC room till you reach those milestones but you can bid on an FC house with a lvl 1 character? Sense, this makes none.
2. Set it so bidding cannot be done if the FC master doesn't meet those criteria. If you try to bid on a house for your FC but your FC master can't purchase land? You get an error message stating such. (Or, you can bid, but if at the time you try to finalize the purchase /then/ you get the error message.)
3. Make it impossible to give FC leader to someone who doesn't meet those criteria if the FC in question has a house. "Free Company leadership cannot be passed down to I'm Analt because they do not meet the criteria for housing ownership."

Mind you this won't really do much other than deter. The way housing is set up, it's virtually impossible to stop anyone wanting to purchase multiple plots. SE either needs to rethink the housing wards and perhaps install instanced housing, or edit and start enforcing their rules.

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

Honestly just requiring a FC to maintain a 4 person membership. If you have more then 1 character from the same service account join the FC; if you leave with 1 character you automatically leave with all of them.

Worst case scenario? You have someone in a "real" FC that gets inconvenienced because they want to pull themselves and their alts from the FC so they lose their rooms. This would mean a single service account could only maintain 2 Shell Fcs; so 4x less. Sure some folks are going to spend money for additional service accounts; but honestly your not going to make it impossible for folks to throw money at SE for stuff.

I'd also take it a step further and require new FC members be required to earn X amount of company credits with the FC before FC ownership can be transferred to them. This would be in addition to the 30 day transfer min requirement.

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Forcing all characters on the same service account to be removed from a FC just because the player wants to transfer one of those characters to a different world/FC would be an extremely bad move.

Attaching ownership of the FC house to the FC master would work much better than the current "purchased and maintained by character" provision. Those running the workshop farms would either have to have a separate service account for each FC house or have those houses on different worlds. Someone could still hold an officer rank in multiple FCs on the same world, they just wouldn't be able to be FC master of more than one.

I'm not certain your final suggestion would be effective in any way. Even without a boost, someone could easily get a new character to 2nd Sgt. in its Grand Company within a couple of days then spam Expert Delivery turn ins to meet the remainder of the credit requirement. SE would also have to add a tracker to the game that displayed credits earned by each member. That in itself could lead to toxic behavior in some FCs ("I'm more deserving because I've generated more credits than you").

It would make more sense to move the Land Purchase entitlement from Rank 6 to Rank 20. Back when housing was first added, and even in HW to some degree, reaching Rank 6 was a difficult task unless it was a large FC because the amount of company credits generated was smaller. As expansions have come and gone, the amount of company credits being generated has increased multiple times compared to the original especially when it comes to Expert Deliveries.

A small but active FC with 4-6 members could still get the needed rank in 1-2 months (they're already going to have to wait 30 days before they can buy so it works out well). A solo FC would have a much harder time without spending a crazy amount of gil on the mb.

Another option would be to charge FCs rent in the form of Company Credits. Genuinely active FCs (once they've been established for a few months) are usually swimming in credits even after what's needed to run the subs and airship, and buying FC actions. Credits build up much faster than they get used because there's not anything useful to spend them on outside of the actions, ceruleum tanks and maybe getting Voidrake/Althyk Lavender seeds to grow.

Solo FCs, once again, are going to have a harder time generating the ongoing supply of credits without spending large amounts of gil. The more expenses there are to offset the gil generated by a workshop, the less attractive it becomes to run workshop farms.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Another option would be to charge FCs rent in the form of Company Credits. Genuinely active FCs (once they've been established for a few months) are usually swimming in credits even after what's needed to run the subs and airship, and buying FC actions. Credits build up much faster than they get used because there's not anything useful to spend them on outside of the actions, ceruleum tanks and maybe getting Voidrake/Althyk Lavender seeds to grow.

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Company credits are only accumulated by doing crappy casual and leveling content (that also reward GC seals) which is not something everyone participates in. This kind of "rent" would only be acceptable if it applied equally to the main culprits behind the housing shortage: private house owners. There'd be a lot more houses available if people actually had to pay CG seals to maintain their house, but are we really suggesting people need to slave away doing specific content they don't enjoy just to have a house? Auto-demolition is how the game frees up houses from inactive users.

The only thing that needs to be done is to prevent users from buying a free company house if they have a character in another free company on the same server, and that free company has an estate.

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

Honestly just requiring a FC to maintain a 4 person membership. If you have more then 1 character from the same service account join the FC; if you leave with 1 character you automatically leave with all of them.

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Having all alts in a world share housing and FC like this would be a good idea. But like everyone said, cooling down workshop abuse by closing the shell FC loophole would be ideal.

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Originally Posted by CatStarwind

Having all alts in a world share housing and FC like this would be a good idea. But like everyone said, cooling down workshop abuse by closing the shell FC loophole would be ideal.

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It isnt a loophole, its actually intended in the TOS, good try buddy, as per usual making a fool of yourself.

At this point you are going to become (if you are not already) the joke of the housing forums, congratulations

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Company credits are only accumulated by doing crappy casual and leveling content (that also reward GC seals) which is not something everyone participates in. This kind of "rent" would only be acceptable if it applied equally to the main culprits behind the housing shortage: private house owners. There'd be a lot more houses available if people actually had to pay CG seals to maintain their house, but are we really suggesting people need to slave away doing specific content they don't enjoy just to have a house? Auto-demolition is how the game frees up houses from inactive users.

The only thing that needs to be done is to prevent users from buying a free company house if they have a character in another free company on the same server, and that free company has an estate.

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There are a lot of different ways to generate company credits. No one is forced into specific content, though certainly some ways are more efficient for gaining credits than others. That's something I'd actually like to see SE changed - I think Expert Delivery and HQ crafting are overvalued when it comes to generating credits.

There's no reason to apply it to private house owners because 1) they don't get company credits, those go to the FC, and 2) FCs get additional features in their houses that private owners don't get.

I get why you'd be upset with the idea considering you're in a 3 member FC that owns a large. But you could have also gotten a private house and added the other 2 FC members as tenants. You're part of the problem by creating artificial demand for FC houses by using a FC for personal reasons.

The point of this is to lower demand for plots by fake FCs, which in turn can increase supply for others.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

There are a lot of different ways to generate company credits. No one is forced into specific content, though certainly some ways are more efficient for gaining credits than others. That's something I'd actually like to see SE changed - I think Expert Delivery and HQ crafting are overvalued when it comes to generating credits.

There's no reason to apply it to private house owners because 1) they don't get company credits, those go to the FC, and 2) FCs get additional features in their houses that private owners don't get.

I get why you'd be upset with the idea considering you're in a 3 member FC that owns a large. But you could have also gotten a private house and added the other 2 FC members as tenants. You're part of the problem by creating artificial demand for FC houses by using a FC for personal reasons.

The point of this is to lower demand for plots by fake FCs, which in turn can increase supply for others.

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For NA only ? Sure

Not for EU, there are enough houses on EU for everyone.

Also company credits are stupid easy to get, it would literally do nothing but create annoyance even for what you call "real fcs", forcing them to do things they dont want to do because they need to reach x amount of credits.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

There are a lot of different ways to generate company credits. No one is forced into specific content, though certainly some ways are more efficient for gaining credits than others. That's something I'd actually like to see SE changed - I think Expert Delivery and HQ crafting are overvalued when it comes to generating credits.

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Savage, extremes, unreal, criterion, S ranks and ultimate don't give company credits, do they? So one would be forced into casual content they wouldn't otherwise do. It's a silly idea Square would never implement, because they know not everyone spends their time doing fates and dungeons lol.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I get why you'd be upset with the idea considering you're in a 3 member FC that owns a large. But you could have also gotten a private house and added the other 2 FC members as tenants. You're part of the problem by creating artificial demand for FC houses by using a FC for personal reasons.

The point of this is to lower demand for plots by fake FCs, which in turn can increase supply for others.

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Part of what problem? Odin has hundreds of free company plots. If I want to create and run a free company I have the same ability to do so as any fc leader that formed theirs years ago, despite your insinuation that I or anyone looking to share a free company with their loved ones is only allowed to enjoy what other people have built.

Getting free company credits would be trivial, but the part that upsets me is the idea that I'd suffer repeating a braindead activity someone without endgame experience conveniently considers the best way to earn housing. This expectation of having to waste my time would be there still, should my fc grow into a 4 man fc that might meet your criteria of a "non-fake" fc.