6.0 Story Speculations

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jandor

Yeah, Emet forgot to include instructions. :p

---

Instructions unclear, accidentally summoned Anima, send help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jandor

Yeah, Emet forgot to include instructions. :p

---

Is that why I have no idea as to where the batteries go in that thing?!?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jandor

Yeah, Emet forgot to include instructions. :p

---

Insert Crystal A into Slot B.

Invoke the old rites.

Insert Crystal B into Slot C.

Sing Modern Major General.

Slap Thancred.

Congratulations, you should remember the grapes now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Insert Crystal A into Slot B.

Invoke the old rites.

Insert Crystal B into Slot C.

Sing Modern Major General.

Slap Thancred.

Congratulations, you should remember the grapes now.

---

Would it break if I WoL slapped Thancred twice? Asking for a friend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Like an Ascian, or an Ascian? The "without shadow" aspects of them is rooted in something we likely can't mimic just by having a stone that, if we used it in a certain way, might awaken the Azem identity to a degree that it overwhelms the Warrior of Light identity. But even the Warriors of Darkness were said to be "like the Ascians;" Minfilia, too. But Azem wasn't there to summon Zodiark, and therefore probably lacks some of the qualities that 1:1 define "AN ASCIAN." (Recall that Lahabrea had to "raise up" the of the Twelfth Blah Blah, himself.) That said, if you had the Azem stone, an Overlord, and whatever Emet-Selch was musing about in the jungle, you might stand a chance of pulling it off! lol

---

Like whatever Gaia is, then, and she calls herself an Ascian while still maintaining what bits of her own identity she could recover. But yeah, we still don't know what required an (unsundered) Overlord specifically. I guess that would make the list as we know it:

1) A candidate.
2) The Convocation crystal.
3) An Overlord to complete the ritual.
4) ??????? (Please look forward to it.)

If it was just installing the Echo in a compatible soul, we've already got that taken care of, but if there was some specific communion with Zodiark then we're probably SOL for the time being. Still, we have to have kept the job crystal for something, and since it only has the one known function...

Granted, I got here the bad way, not by working up through the established lore, but by working down from, "What could the WoL meaningfully sacrifice while still maintaining their role as the Player Character," and pretty much the only thing left on the list that met those two conditions was, "their humanity."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cilia

I don't feel like getting into the usual circular arguments on morality these things tend to devolve into anymore, but I will say this:

The PC is mentally ill in the DRK 30-50 questline. Legitimately. Remember that.

---

I mean, i don’t think anyone is denying that but.... so what? They get a pass? We overlook their sins made because they’re the WoL and they could do no harm? Yet again, if it was an antagonist to do the same people would be getting the pitchforks etc. The double standard is really what i’m pointing out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Sing Modern Major General.

---

Do you want us to die trying?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenral

Like whatever Gaia is, then, and she calls herself an Ascian while still maintaining what bits of her own identity she could recover. But yeah, we still don't know what required an (unsundered) Overlord specifically. I guess that would make the list as we know it:

1) A candidate.
2) The Convocation crystal.
3) An Overlord to complete the ritual.
4) ??????? (Please look forward to it.)

If it was just installing the Echo in a compatible soul, we've already got that taken care of, but if there was some specific communion with Zodiark then we're probably SOL for the time being. Still, we have to have kept the job crystal for something, and since it only has the one known function...

---

I think there must be some manner of communion with Zodiark required as well in order to take on the aspect of darkness. They prefer the original souls of Zodiark's summoners because that's already there, but in principle they can work with any soul once the Echo is awakened, something Emet-Selch reveals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

It's truly a shame that the Warring Triad trials and associated quests were not made mandatory at some point.

There's a wave of information where Unukalhai explains to us that not all primal-like entities are the same, and that ones of far greater power and persuasion are the only beings truly dubbed as Eikons by the Allagan Empire.

In the course of the quest line, the Warring Triad is shown to be able to Temper by sheer proximity, through walls, without even needing to launch some good ole tempering orbs/lances/energy.

They have also been used as a power source for Azys Llla for 5,000 years. Rather than needing a constant swathe of believers and crystals and aether, they are the power source. This is part of the reason we were able to best them.

You'd think with all our perusings of Azys Lla, they'd at least get some mention for us to understand the nature of deiform entities better, but they don't, and it's criminal imo.

It also shows that back in the day, the summoning rituals that the Ascians were handing out were even closer to creation magicks, and they may have directly helped with them, in order for the Meracydian tribes to have such powerful primals. That's supposition on my part, obviously, but what other explanation is there(aside from the meta one where they are direct lifts from FFVI, where they were the original Gods and Progenitors of Magic).

---

I agree, they should definitely become mandatory for 6.0, or at least strongly advised. The Meracydian Primals have always stood out to me as more complex entities, but over and above that, as Primals installed in the Aetherial Sea, Zodiark and Hydaelyn would require various special characteristics to meet the summoners' objectives. At least they're not working within the very limited framework of your typical Beast Tribe primal, e.g. Ifrit, Garuda, Titan etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

Still holding out hope that Azem/Ascian of Light is going to be a secret job you get during the Endwalker MSQ.

---

I'd just love a caster modeled after their use of dark magics, or if it must, one which invokes both light and dark. Something I'd hoped a time mage might do in some facet. It'd fit nicely with the theme that neither is good or evil... :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I mean, i don’t think anyone is denying that but.... so what? They get a pass? We overlook their sins made because they’re the WoL and they could do no harm? Yet again, if it was an antagonist to do the same people would be getting the pitchforks etc. The double standard is really what i’m pointing out.

---

1. While the "insanity defense" is thrown around humorously and humorously often, this is one point where it's entirely applicable. If someone's not in their right mind, is it really fair to hold the things they did in that state against them?
2. I never said to "overlook the [PC]'s sins." I said to, in that instance, consider they were not in their right mind before passing judgment. I never said "The PC is a perfect angel who never has done and never can do wrong;" you did because it's an easier position to attack than "It's not fair to be so harsh on someone who's been driven out of their mind due to a combination of PTSD and magically induced psychosis." (Re: Strawman fallacy.)
3. The problem with this general line of thinking is twofold: whataboutery and false equivalence. First, when someone criticizes an antagonist's actions as wrong, "Well, what about [X Thing] [Y Protagonist] did?" is not a valid counterargument because both context and magnitude are of extreme importance. Without considering those there is the implication that all actions share a moral equivalence, and since nobody is perfect all criticism is hypocritical. (Or everyone holds double standards therefore all criticism is hypocritical, as you would term it.) Therefore nobody can criticize anyone else, and everyone should be free to do whatever they want (I guess).

Everyone is a hypocrite, everyone is biased, and everyone holds double standards. Considering that... I don't see the point in holding those against people anymore, but someone inevitably does so, turning the "argument" into a circle of strawmen, whataboutery, and so on and so forth. Then it's just a waste of time on everyone's part.

Can you tell I'm really not a fan of this anymore? Agree to disagree if you want, but it works both ways, kiddos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lauront

I think there must be some manner of communion with Zodiark required as well in order to take on the aspect of darkness. They prefer the original souls of Zodiark's summoners because that's already there, but in principle they can work with any soul once the Echo is awakened, something Emet-Selch reveals.



I agree, they should definitely become mandatory for 6.0, or at least strongly advised. The Meracydian Primals have always stood out to me as more complex entities, but over and above that, as Primals installed in the Aetherial Sea, Zodiark and Hydaelyn would require various special characteristics to meet the summoners' objectives. At least they're not working within the very limited framework of your typical Beast Tribe primal, e.g. Ifrit, Garuda, Titan etc.



I'd just love a caster modeled after their use of dark magics, or if it must, one which invokes both light and dark. Something I'd hoped a time mage might do in some facet. It'd fit nicely with the theme that neither is good or evil... :)

---

While we know the next job is a melee maiming I could see a reverse RDM being a cool catalyst for this idea, basically this slow, hard hitting melee dps that builds a gauge and then unleashes some magic attacks, could be cool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cilia

1. While the "insanity defense" is thrown around humorously and humorously often, this is one point where it's entirely applicable. If someone's not in their right mind, is it really fair to hold the things they did in that state against them?

---

When it comes to the death of someone...yes. If it was a petty thing then no not really. When it comes at the cost of another persons life then yes they should be held accountable. We could fall down an entire rabbit hole in that case of “how much is this person not in the right state of mind and to how far should we extend a hand in giving a pass”. In this case, it came at the cost of people’s lives. The person who caused that should be held accountable regardless of their mental state. Because then in that case, who knows when they could do that again and then again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I mean, i don’t think anyone is denying that but.... so what? They get a pass? We overlook their sins made because they’re the WoL and they could do no harm? Yet again, if it was an antagonist to do the same people would be getting the pitchforks etc. The double standard is really what i’m pointing out.

---

You didn't really do anything that terrible up until the last quest where your dark side possessed Fray's body and tried to kill people at Whitebrim...which still technically wasn't you and is probably the bigger factor in why they were so willing to help you then forgive and forget.

Random nameless chirugeon guy still stands out in my memory for being the first to offer assistance despite his expression screaming "I have no idea what in the seven hells is going on right now".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

When it comes to the death of someone...yes. If it was a petty thing then no not really. When it comes at the cost of another persons life then yes they should be held accountable. We could fall down an entire rabbit hole in that case of “how much is this person not in the right state of mind and to how far should we extend a hand in giving a pass”. In this case, it came at the cost of people’s lives. The person who caused that should be held accountable regardless of their mental state. Because then in that case, who knows when they could do that again and then again.

---

Considering the perpetrator (the PC) was able to shake off the magical psychosis and are no longer a danger to themselves or others (well, no more than they were before the magical psychosis), I really don't see the issue. Further whatever ills they may have committed against Ishgard and her people absolutely pale in comparison to the services they've done for the country and beyond, so... good luck.

Also see below.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KageTokage

You didn't really do anything that terrible up until the last quest where your dark side possessed Fray's body and tried to kill people at Whitebrim...which still technically wasn't you and is probably the bigger factor in why they were so willing to help you then forgive and forget.

Random nameless chirugeon guy still stands out in my memory for being the first to offer assistance despite his expression screaming "I have no idea what in the seven hells is going on right now".

---

This argument started due to a different interpretation of a certain bit of information in the DRK 63 quest. In it you're tasked with finding Lowdy, the widowed barmaid who poisoned the PC and started a riot at Falcon's Nest to halt the peace talks with Vidofnir. She's since been sentenced to serving hard labor out in the Dravanian Forelands around Tailfeather, overseen by an overly strict proctor (i.e. he's physically abusing her). In order to get the full plan in action, Sidurgu goes to free her for a moment while the PC tries to talk some sense into said proctor. Unfortunately, said proctor won't listen to reason, so the PC implicitly resorts to threats, leading to the guy attacking you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sidurgu

Confront the proctor. Make him see the error of his ways. If he is a good man, then he may yet repent of his wicked ways...
If he refuses, then that is his choice to make, and he will have to accept the consequences of his actions. Doubly so if he bears steel, yes?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lowdy's Proctor

Hm? Who are you? Why do you disturb me?
A concerned adventurer who objects to my treatment of a criminal? Hah! If only you knew her sins. She should have been thrown into Witchdrop.
Alas, the Lord Speaker in his boundless wisdom and mercy demanded that we spare the woman's life. But rest assured I will see that her every waking moment is filled with misery and scorn.
You presume to judge me!? A man of the church!? I will not be cowed by your threats! The Fury guide and protect me! The Fury guide and protect me!

---

The general feel I get from it is "Try talking to him. If that doesn't work, try threatening him. If that doesn't work and he attacks you, it's on him," not "Goad this guy into attacking you so you can kill him." But, that's just me.

The PC does get blood on their hands for reasons of questionable validity before that (Massacring amalj'aa to save a caravan from being tempered? Probably good. Massacring qiqirn bandits because a single merchant got his goods stolen? Quite a bit more questionable) but as stated before the PC isn't in their right mind at that point in time.

It was nothing out of ordinary for the WoL, when dealing with the obstinate old guard of Ishgard. Try talking, when negotiations break down, enforce your will with violence.

Heck, that basically sums up quite a lot of the MSQ.

The conversation was basically, "Are you abusing this woman?" - "Yes, of course! She deserves it." - "Go easier on her, in fact, stop altogether." - "No." - "Do what I say or else." -> Proctor attacks. He also attacks with you with two hedge knights in his service, so he knew his conduct was questionable. He was already intent on burying you, if you gave him too much trouble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

It was nothing out of ordinary for the WoL, when dealing with the obstinate old guard of Ishgard. Try talking, when negotiations break down, enforce your will with violence.

Heck, that basically sums up quite a lot of the MSQ.

The conversation was basically, "Are you abusing this woman?" - "Yes, of course! She deserves it." - "Go easier on her, in fact, stop altogether." - "No." - "Do what I say or else." -> Proctor attacks. He also attacks with you with two hedge knights in his service, so he knew his conduct was questionable. He was already intent on burying you, if you gave him too much trouble.

---

He attacks you with two knights because we literally threaten his life. What else is he going to do? If someone threatened us you know full well the scions are going to come barging on whoever’s doing it. I mean we goad the guy, kill him, and then just let a woman who poisoned us and incited riots go free. Real good decision making there. You’re right though in that, it sums up a lot of the msq. It’s why i don’t really see WoL as a good person lol.

Dark Knight's whole shtick is being judge, jury, and executioner for people who are trying to abuse their authority to commit wrongdoings (Which is not nearly as relevant in the post-Dragonsong War Ishgard).

Being morally ambiguous just kind of comes naturally to it...though I agree that situation could've been handled without killing the guy, seeing as we're pretty much the most influential person in Ishgard short of Aymeric himself and maybe the house leaders. It is, however, much more convenient to just solve problems with violence from a narrative standpoint, which is probably why we're so prone to running into unreasonable people who attack us at the drop of a hat in sidequests.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KageTokage

Dark Knight's whole shtick is being judge, jury, and executioner for people who are trying to abuse their authority to commit wrongdoings (Which is not nearly as relevant in the post-Dragonsong War Ishgard).

Being morally ambiguous just kind of comes naturally to it...though I agree that situation could've been handled without killing the guy, seeing as we're pretty much the most influential person in Ishgard short of Aymeric himself and maybe the house leaders. It is, however, much more convenient to just solve problems with violence from a narrative standpoint, which is probably why we're so prone to running into unreasonable people who attack us at the drop of a hat in sidequests.

---

And i agree that, that is what Drk is. But it doesn’t make it right what we do in those quest-lines either. We can try and hide it behind the fact of the wol was struggling with mental illness or whatever but it still doesn’t justify killings(or letting attempted murderers go).

Except he had his guards and we were alone, we also only threatened him, if I tried to kill every person who ever threatened me, I'd not have made it out of school without ending up in juvey and then jail. Being threatening doesn't give you the right to attempt to kill someone, we didn't didn't act on our threats or swing first, we tried to intimidate him into backing off and his literal first reaction to a threat was to attempt to kill us.
Was it an acceptable outcome for a DRK? Absolutely, their number one goal is to aid the oppressed, if that involves some bloodshed, they really don't care, but the only way I'd agree with us being directly in the wrong in this particular case is if we'd walked up to him without a word and just cleaved him in two, or simply said we were going to kill him and then done so, which isn't what happened at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

Except he had his guards and we were alone, we also only threatened him, if I tried to kill every person who ever threatened me, I'd not have made it out of school without ending up in juvey and then jail. Being threatening doesn't give you the right to attempt to kill someone, we didn't didn't act on our threats or swing first, we tried to intimidate him into backing off and his literal first reaction to a threat was to attempt to kill us.
Was it an acceptable outcome for a DRK? Absolutely, their number one goal is to aid the oppressed, if that involves some bloodshed, they really don't care, but the only way I'd agree with us being directly in the wrong in this particular case is if we'd walked up to him without a word and just cleaved him in two, or simply said we were going to kill him and then done so, which isn't what happened at all.

---

There’s a huge difference between our world and the 14 world. Threats in 14 i’d imagine are much more serious considering 9 times out of 10 someone’s getting threatened, the threat is carried out. If you see someone approaching you with a big ass sword and armor, you’re going to defend yourself after they’ve threatened you. That’s just the way it is. Their goal is to aid the “oppressed” yet who decides who’s deserving of that aid? Us?We decided to aid someone who already attempted murder and incited riots? Doesn’t seem deserving of that imo, nor worth killing 3 people over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

There’s a huge difference between our world and the 14 world. Threats in 14 i’d imagine are much more serious considering 9 times out of 10 someone’s getting threatened, the threat is carried out. If you see someone approaching you with a big ass sword and armor, you’re going to defend yourself after they’ve threatened you. That’s just the way it is. Their goal is to aid the “oppressed” yet who decides who’s deserving of that aid? Us?We decided to aid someone who already attempted murder and incited riots? Doesn’t seem deserving of that imo, nor worth killing 3 people over.

---

Even in 14's world, if everyone who was threatened killed or tried to kill the one who threatened them, the streets would constantly run red with blood. There are even other quests were we try the same tactic and are promptly told to "sod off" he had the numbers and we hadn't even drawn our weapon, even in 14's world logic he jumped literally several steps to making it a fight to the death. Even in other instances where we've been drawn into these kinds of conflicts, there's normally multiple threats, one side draws their weapon or makes it plane they intend to carry out their threats before the violence starts.

As for the morality of it, I never said it was good, DRK's whole gimmick is they meet out their own version of justice, while it comes with the advantage of not letting laws or those who use them to hide their abuse get away with it, it comes at the cost of the DRK's having no oversight, their word is law, their sword the judge and there are no appeals.
However, that's irrelevant to this particular case as the man vastly overreacted, you could remove the DRK from this situation, put anyone else in their place, hell put a lawful good PLD there and the outcome would have been the same because a PLD would have been fine with using words and their presence to persuade him to back off, but this guy would've thrown the PLD into the same fight to the death immediately as well.

The whole point of DRK (storywise) is to illustrate that being "good" sometimes means it's necessary to act outside the law since there are people the law can't touch. The people who do such things are criminals as a consequence, but that doesn't always equate to being "bad" or "wrong." (See: Chaotic Good)

Was it right to do this? Well... it certainly wasn't legal, but "wrong" is another matter altogether, especially when we didn't throw the first punch.

Further why does it matter if Lowdy incited a riot to sabotage a peace talk? Just because she's a criminal doesn't mean she shouldn't be treated humanely, especially considering she's shown to be genuinely remorseful for her actions in the selfsame quest.

I was speculating about the new Capital city... The one that is not the Thavnairian one, as it was already stated to be the "smaller hub" like Eulmore is to the Crystarium.

From one side... Sharlayan is a strong candidate. I kind of think that Krile will actually achieve something with her pledge for help, and Sage as an available job will be a result of that as well.

From another side, it would be interesting to have an ongoing effort to actually build a new Garlean capital through the xpac, for the survivors of the war. But this may lead to a rather unimpressive city. At least at first... Maybe it will feature something like the Doman Enclave meets Ishgard Restoration?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raikai

I was speculating about the new Capital city... The one that is not the Thavnairian one, as it was already stated to be the "smaller hub" like Eulmore is to the Crystarium.

From one side... Sharlayan is a strong candidate. I kind of think that Krile will actually achieve something with her pledge for help, and Sage as an available job will be a result of that as well.

From another side, it would be interesting to have an ongoing effort to actually build a new Garlean capital through the xpac, for the survivors of the war. But this may lead to a rather unimpressive city. At least at first... Maybe it will feature something like the Doman Enclave meets Ishgard Restoration?

---

I thought the same, I still feel Sharlayan might be a subvert, more so with it being revealed now, while it's very possible we do just go there, given how much ground I feel would need to be broken (they're even more entrenched in their ways then Ishguard) I just don't feel, even with the fate of the world, them just throwing their doors open, because for it to be the other capital city they need to give a reason for why more than just us being there, like how Ishguard in the wake of us helping them in the Steps of faith and them buckling under the weight of the war, they were willing to allow adventures beyond the WoL inside to help them not collapse, before the ending of 3.0 had them fully open up. Sharlayan's story just feels too grand to relegate to being shoved into the background of the climax of another story or quickly handwaved as it was all sorted off screen.
What I could see is Krile winning a vote of aid, and them sending some help, or them outright still refusing but some realizing how stupid that is given what's at stake going against the board and returning with Krile with "borrowed" knowledge, could even be the twins parents, at least their mother, as Alisaie states she's where Alphinaud gets his idealism from.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

I thought the same, I still feel Sharlayan might be a subvert, more so with it being revealed now, while it's very possible we do just go there, given how much ground I feel would need to be broken (they're even more entrenched in their ways then Ishguard) I just don't feel, even with the fate of the world, them just throwing their doors open, because for it to be the other capital city they need to give a reason for why more than just us being there, like how Ishguard in the wake of us helping them in the Steps of faith and them buckling under the weight of the war, they were willing to allow adventures beyond the WoL inside to help them not collapse, before the ending of 3.0 had them fully open up. Sharlayan's story just feels too grand to relegate to being shoved into the background of the climax of another story or quickly handwaved as it was all sorted off screen.
What I could see is Krile winning a vote of aid, and them sending some help, or them outright still refusing but some realizing how stupid that is given what's at stake going against the board and returning with Krile with "borrowed" knowledge, could even be the twins parents, at least their mother, as Alisaie states she's where Alphinaud gets his idealism from.

---

5.55 could easily swing the other way, as we go off to accomplish another task, take a set back, only to get a call from Krile to say maybe the WOL and twins need to come to Sharlayan as there is another issue. Or Krile just doesn't report in (maybe with a "Meanwhile in Sharlayan" seeing her taken or arrested). Maybe these aren't the most exciting cliff hangers but Sharlayan is very much still in play until fanfest says otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kesey

5.55 could easily swing the other way, as we go off to accomplish another task, take a set back, only to get a call from Krile to say maybe the WOL and twins need to come to Sharlayan as there is another issue. Or Krile just doesn't report in (maybe with a "Meanwhile in Sharlayan" seeing her taken or arrested). Maybe these aren't the most exciting cliff hangers but Sharlayan is very much still in play until fanfest says otherwise.

---

Oh, it's very much in play and now that the doors open it's very likely we will just go there and it is the second city, my point was I'd just be disappointed with it as being the second city as I feel the whole getting Sharlayan to open up to the world could have been it's own plot given how guarded and zealous they've been, abandoning Eorzea en masse, refusing any help or knowledge, sending almost death squads after anyone who'd defy the board and try and share even small amounts of it (AST quests) It would just feel like another Stormblood, when Sharlayan would get "resolved" quickly for the sake of a bigger narrative like "saving" Ala Mhigo by spending most of the story saving Doma instead only for Ala Mhigo to have resolved most of it themselves and us arrived just intime for the two final pushes.
Edit: More worrying as they want to wrap up everything in 6.0, so in addition to Thavnair, Garlemald, The Moon, Fighting off the end days in Erozea, deal with Fandaniel, fight Zenos, put to rest the story of Hydaelyn and Zodiark we also need to go to/get into Sharlayan.

Sharlayan itself can be the gateway to the moon (ala Mysidia in FF4) so we may not get there until after the level 89 dungeon/trial. Then 6.1 and after takes place in and around Sharlayan as we build up to 7.0

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

I thought the same, I still feel Sharlayan might be a subvert, more so with it being revealed now, while it's very possible we do just go there, given how much ground I feel would need to be broken (they're even more entrenched in their ways then Ishguard) I just don't feel, even with the fate of the world, them just throwing their doors open, because for it to be the other capital city they need to give a reason for why more than just us being there, like how Ishguard in the wake of us helping them in the Steps of faith and them buckling under the weight of the war, they were willing to allow adventures beyond the WoL inside to help them not collapse, before the ending of 3.0 had them fully open up. Sharlayan's story just feels too grand to relegate to being shoved into the background of the climax of another story or quickly handwaved as it was all sorted off screen.
What I could see is Krile winning a vote of aid, and them sending some help, or them outright still refusing but some realizing how stupid that is given what's at stake going against the board and returning with Krile with "borrowed" knowledge, could even be the twins parents, at least their mother, as Alisaie states she's where Alphinaud gets his idealism from.

---

One supporting factor of Sharlayan is that we already have all of the assets for its basic structure. Sharlayan architecture exists in the Crystarium, Dravania, Eureka, and even in Gyr Albania, although its only one little ancient ship that might have led to the founding of their nation. We also have Astrologian, and Sage; which appear to be Sharlayan originated jobs. There's also several instances of Sharlayan inspired gear. That alone could make several npcs, and recycled leveling gear. Square Enix historically loves to have assets made gradually for their expansions.

Many people don't notice this, but a lot of monsters being used in later expansions as enemy mobs, are often introduced in the last patch of each expansion in order to test them. I would even bet that other nations are being set up over time with the gear and assets that we already have right now.. It's just how game devs tend to operate. Look at Thavnair, because it took us several questlines involving them, and a lot of different gear references before we even got Dancer, and now we are finally going there..

The hints are always in the game. Look at what has the MOST stuff just lying there in the background, and chances are that is where we will be going. If it has just a LITTLE bit of gear, it probably isn't ready. Doma was hinted at for two whole cycles before we went, and it was even specified that the more we saw Doman gear/npcs, then the sooner we would be there, and we did in fact go there. The trail to our next locations is almost always hidden behind buried content just lying in wait to be picked up on a grander scale. The only exception is probably the first. We only had one major questline that even remotely hinted at us going there, which was all the way back in Heavensward. It was a big twist that most people did not even expect at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

Oh, it's very much in play and now that the doors open it's very likely we will just go there and it is the second city, my point was I'd just be disappointed with it as being the second city as I feel the whole getting Sharlayan to open up to the world could have been it's own plot given how guarded and zealous they've been, abandoning Eorzea en masse, refusing any help or knowledge, sending almost death squads after anyone who'd defy the board and try and share even small amounts of it (AST quests) It would just feel like another Stormblood, when Sharlayan would get "resolved" quickly for the sake of a bigger narrative like "saving" Ala Mhigo by spending most of the story saving Doma instead only for Ala Mhigo to have resolved most of it themselves and us arrived just intime for the two final pushes.
Edit: More worrying as they want to wrap up everything in 6.0, so in addition to Thavnair, Garlemald, The Moon, Fighting off the end days in Erozea, deal with Fandaniel, fight Zenos, put to rest the story of Hydaelyn and Zodiark we also need to go to/get into Sharlayan.

---

How does a place like Sharlayan produce idealistic people like Louisoix, Krile, Alphinaud and Alisiae, yet turn around and still remain isolationist and hoarding the collected knowledge of the world? Why did Sharlayan want to hunt down certain Astros to stop the spread of knowledge? Why did they abandon a perfectly good colony in the hinterlands due to a political climate set by Garlean invasions when they are renown scholars and diplomats respected by all the nations? Why is their origin story basically the story of Noah's ark and that ark sits in Gyr Abania nowhere near Sharlayan and honestly looks like it came out of Azys Lla? And why does all the Sharlayan buildings and naming conventions seem very similar to ones we see in Amaurot?

Sharlayan is hiding something.

(Also, it's pretty convenient to the story telling to have a nation of scholars when SE promises to answer the lingering questions...I'm just saying...)

I very much agree with you, it just feels like a larger mystery than there's room for with everything else in 6.0. Obviously Sharlayan isn't going to evaporate after the events of 6.0, but if it's the second city, that's a pretty big shift from "no one in! we no share!" to "come on it and share our city and knowledge!" I would have just preferred it to have been it's own quest, with they desire to tell smaller stories an expansion peeling back the layers of Sharlayan would have been cool, where it could have been more deeply explored or even only showing up from 6.1-6.5.
That's why I put forward the idea of the Board actually saying no, and some few bringing the info the Scions need to them as opposed to us going there and then that being the portal to us finally dealing with just what Sharlayan is hiding/up to come 6.1 onwards vs it trying to compete for space in what already seems to be a very crowded 6.0

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

snip

---

To be fair, they could go the Eulmore route and give us limited access early in the story. I could also see them finally helping. A lot of people don't realize how key their relations with the rest of Eorzea are. They had a major colony on Eorzea for quite some time, which meant that they had to have some sort of relationship with the rest of the city states there. For them to just pull away, and refuse to help on a grand scale is.. politically a dick move to their friends.

In my opinion, I think that Sharlayan is key to ending the Ascian threat. I think they didn't pull out to simply avoid conflict. Remember this is an island nation with potent magic. They likely have enough people to support the resistances across the globe. They just won't.

For a city of knowledge to refuse all help, I believe they had to know something, and that something I believe is the knowledge of the Ascians. The isle of Val was a moderately sized portion of their country. Such a local calamity doesn't usually just happen because of random shenanigans. Maybe in the vein of alien threats like Omega, and Ultima (High Seraph), but those are rare and few between. They had to have an active plan in preventing the Ascians plan in the background. The students of Baldesion, and the main players behind the power in the city had to have something to do with it. I believe that destroying the headquarters of the students who were researching the Ascian threats, was a warning from the Ascians. These people were also our only publicly known allies in the country, but due to the isolation, and the weakness of our characters at the time, there wasn't anything the Warrior of Light, or that the Scions could do. It seems like a convenient thing that the Ascians purposely took advantage of at the time in order to prevent combined meddling from Eorzea and Sharlayan.

That is extremely fishy.. and considering the Ascian involvement in the Eureka questline, we know that to be true. Now for how far the anti Ascian fighting runs deep in Sharlayan? That much Is to be seen, but I have a feeling someone ancient could even be leading them. They could just be incredibly smart, but perhaps some sort of an anti Ascian figure is on their side. Maybe someone from one of the opposing cultures they sacrificed.. it could really be anything or anyone.

Those are my thoughts on this matter. You don't just abandon an entire colony for no reason, and then declare non involvement in the wars that were going on. They had to know what is truly at stake.

Perhaps the rejected peace talks between them and Garlemald were because of the Ascians all along, since we know now that Garlemald was an Ascian idea all along... Maybe Sharlayan wanted to persuade it's leaders to resist the influence of them and failed. All we know is that there were peace talks, and not really what went on within them.

Remember the Ascians and Garlemald were a combined threat that seemed separate at the time, but was truly one force in secret. It's obvious they took down the Isle of Val at just the right time when we were too distracted in Eorzea. Had they have waited we could of stopped them from destroying whatever was so important to destroy in Val. Eureka and the war with Garlemald were clearly nothing more than distractions for a broader plan, being essential to keep anyone from getting anywhere near any of the Ascians true goals.

Sharlayan just has to be the biggest player.. I will be genuinely surprised if they aren't the next larger hub.

While I AM still on the Sharlayan train, I DO hold a little doubt for it being the next hub (again, we were SO SURE that 5.0 was going to be the Garlean expansion... until it wasn't).

At this point, the main hub could be a completely unknown city in Ilsabard to serve as a mid-point between Eorzea and Garlemald. Especially since Kugane, for all its beauty, wasn't AS pervasive in Stormblood's plot as Ishgard and the Crystarium were in 3.0 and 5.0, respectively.

Granted, Sharlayan HAS been teased a lot, and I really don't think even their isolationist tendencies would hold against a threat like the End of Days, even IF there's some Ascian influence afoot (one of my pet theories as to what caused Sharlayan to be so isolationist in the first place. Not that it couldn't JUST be Spoken hubris).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

Edit: More worrying as they want to wrap up everything in 6.0, so in addition to Thavnair, Garlemald, The Moon, Fighting off the end days in Erozea, deal with Fandaniel, fight Zenos, put to rest the story of Hydaelyn and Zodiark we also need to go to/get into Sharlayan.

---

This has been my worry ever since they announced all of this. They’re introducing a looooot of things and areas and i’m really hoping it doesn’t turn into split expansion stormblood 2.0. Or i at least hope the Hydy Zodi arc is given enough time(if we go to sharlayan i can’t even imagine what kind of family squabbles we’d have to waste time with).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

This has been my worry ever since they announced all of this. They’re introducing a looooot of things and areas and i’m really hoping it doesn’t turn into split expansion stormblood 2.0. Or i at least hope the Hydy Zodi arc is given enough time(if we go to sharlayan i can’t even imagine what kind of family squabbles we’d have to waste time with).

---

Which is why I was hoping it was more of a misdirect in 5.5 and a thread to be picked up in 6.1 as opposed to being the city hub. I can see them getting away with Garlemald being a passing visit on the first time through with us helping rebuild it later but for Sharlayan to not only help us, but also let us then just chill in their city feels like too big of a story thread to resolve in the middle of the climax of another story.

I think it'd make at least some sense to visit Sharlayan given the plot points we've been exploring lately as well as the hints that have been dropped in regards to Sharlayan itself as a possible destination. The only thing giving me pause is that it wasn't announced outright as a destination during the first Fan Fest. After all, would it really be such a huge secret/surprise if we did end up going there? Unless it's deliberately being saved as a big reveal for the second Fan Fest, of course...

I'll admit, part of me is hoping that we visit a cool city on the Moon similar in style to Esthar from FFVIII.

I do want to go to Sharlayan at some point, I just worry it might not get the attention that it deserves given how much territory we're already set to explore in 6.0 so far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I think it'd make at least some sense to visit Sharlayan given the plot points we've been exploring lately as well as the hints that have been dropped in regards to Sharlayan itself as a possible destination. The only thing giving me pause is that it wasn't announced outright as a destination during the first Fan Fest. After all, would it really be such a huge secret/surprise if we did end up going there? Unless it's deliberately being saved as a big reveal for the second Fan Fest, of course...

I'll admit, part of me is hoping that we visit a cool city on the Moon similar in style to Esthar from FFVIII.

I do want to go to Sharlayan at some point, I just worry it might not get the attention that it deserves given how much territory we're already set to explore in 6.0 so far.

---

Which is my worry as well, even with all the ground they want to cover, I'd be less worried if this was our standard expansion, but with all of this having to fit in just 6.0...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

Which is my worry as well, even with all the ground they want to cover, I'd be less worried if this was our standard expansion, but with all of this having to fit in just 6.0...

---

Mm. Especially with the Hydaelyn and Zodiark portion of the story ending with 6.0 itself. I'm hoping for the 6.0 MSQ's to be longer than usual for an expansion so that each region gets its fair share of attention. I do think the pacing in 5.0 was much better than the pacing in 4.0, so that alleviates my concern somewhat...but I'm also hoping that between breaks in the action we'll be learning a lot about the areas we visit and the people who inhabit them. I think they can get away with pushing some of it into 6.1 and beyond, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Mm. Especially with the Hydaelyn and Zodiark portion of the story ending with 6.0 itself. I'm hoping for the 6.0 MSQ's to be longer than usual for an expansion so that each region gets its fair share of attention. I do think the pacing in 5.0 was much better than the pacing in 4.0, so that alleviates my concern somewhat...but I'm also hoping that between breaks in the action we'll be learning a lot about the areas we visit and the people who inhabit them. I think they can get away with pushing some of it into 6.1 and beyond, though.

---

They can kind of get away with some of it with us being in a "hurry" so we're passing through a lot of places, only to double back once the fate of the world isn't at stake, that might be their plan for things, like I could see us rushing into the remains of Garlemald to try and stop Zenos and going back after to help them, same with Thavnair, it's a means to an end during 6.0 but then we get to go back and build on the connections we make there during 6.0, even the moon, if it's not some crazy "city on the moon" affair and just the final zone it won't take up too much space. Sharlayan though... still just seems too big for them to just let us in, in any capacity without us first resolving what's going on there. They could give it the Kugane treatment where we're not really allowed in, but "You're going to a tiny little port city in Sharlayan" doesn't scream "selling point worth saving for May" and if we're getting into Sharlayan proper in 6.0, I'm just not sure how they'll swing it without it feeling rushed, will they have simply changed their tune over night? Have they been changing their tune over time just without anyone, given how many characters we know from there knowing? Is us telling them it's the end days really enough? While the Garlean's were very much an "us" problem at the time, they had to realize they'd come for them eventually. Either they were too proud to think they could be beat by them, or they have some kind of assurance they couldn't lose or they wouldn't even try, even just talking about it, it feels too interesting a narrative to be relegated to being a side plot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I think it'd make at least some sense to visit Sharlayan given the plot points we've been exploring lately as well as the hints that have been dropped in regards to Sharlayan itself as a possible destination. The only thing giving me pause is that it wasn't announced outright as a destination during the first Fan Fest. After all, would it really be such a huge secret/surprise if we did end up going there? Unless it's deliberately being saved as a big reveal for the second Fan Fest, of course...

I'll admit, part of me is hoping that we visit a cool city on the Moon similar in style to Esthar from FFVIII.

I do want to go to Sharlayan at some point, I just worry it might not get the attention that it deserves given how much territory we're already set to explore in 6.0 so far.

---

I feel like Sharlayan is in a different position regarding the rest of the world as most of the Scions are either from Sharlayan or were educated there. I think since we know the cast well enough at this point, the only outsiders to Sharlayan would be the WOL and Estinien, the Scions can offer the information needed to ease in and not let us get bogged down in world building. Plus they've been building Sharlayan lore since ARR and has continually popped up every expansion. Sharlayan is the place we know the most about without having divulged it's secrets. And they stand as the best potential ally stop the Ascian threat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

Which is my worry as well, even with all the ground they want to cover, I'd be less worried if this was our standard expansion, but with all of this having to fit in just 6.0...

---

I don't see it as a problem in itself (this quote and your other posts about the probable rush accross regions). While the 6.0 narrative is a thing, it doesn't mean that everything we see there will be considered as dealt with. The next story will have to take its ground on these zones anyway (I don't see them adding zones during patches). So if Sharlayan is just the Cristarium / Kugane where we go to address the tempering / towers problem in in 6.0, we can still go back there for character back story and a whole new plot even. Could be the same if it is the endgame hub too.
Also now that zones tend to get bigger and bigger, I wouldn't be surprised if we have one Thavnair zone (which seems to be the case) that covers the whole island, one Sharlayan zone (island) and one city zone.
So far we know about Thavnair and Garlemald as zones, and Radz at Han as a hub. We believe the Moon to be the final zone. There is still room for 3 zones to expand on each of these parts (although I believe Thavnair could be self contained to one zone and one hub). Anyway, we will know more in 3 weeks now!

I still have some kind of concern about a Stormblood 2.0, while the zones were equally partes in 3 Gyr Abania and 3 Othard, Othard was much more focused which made Gyr Abania feel a bit hollow. I hope they avoid this, if we do have more of a "wandering" expansion path.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mansion

I don't see it as a problem in itself (this quote and your other posts about the probable rush accross regions). While the 6.0 narrative is a thing, it doesn't mean that everything we see there will be considered as dealt with. The next story will have to take its ground on these zones anyway (I don't see them adding zones during patches). So if Sharlayan is just the Cristarium / Kugane where we go to address the tempering / towers problem in in 6.0, we can still go back there for character back story and a whole new plot even. Could be the same if it is the endgame hub too.
Also now that zones tend to get bigger and bigger, I wouldn't be surprised if we have one Thavnair zone (which seems to be the case) that covers the whole island, one Sharlayan zone (island) and one city zone.
So far we know about Thavnair and Garlemald as zones, and Radz at Han as a hub. We believe the Moon to be the final zone. There is still room for 3 zones to expand on each of these parts (although I believe Thavnair could be self contained to one zone and one hub). Anyway, we will know more in 3 weeks now!

I still have some kind of concern about a Stormblood 2.0, while the zones were equally partes in 3 Gyr Abania and 3 Othard, Othard was much more focused which made Gyr Abania feel a bit hollow. I hope they avoid this, if we do have more of a "wandering" expansion path.

---

I agree and mentioned that in a prior post, it just feels like getting inside Sharlayan in of itself would be a large enough undertaking, a lot of the other places we have means or justifications for getting in or passing through to come back later, Sharlayan on the other hand would need a lot of story to get us in the front door, much less letting us stay there as the city hub. I guess I'd have felt more comfortable if they'd had Krile leave at the end of 5.3/beginning or 5.4 and had her making headway all the while so by 6.0 there was some foundation for us getting in.
I could see a misdirect where it's not the city state but it is a zone, perhaps we find out there's a bigger divide than anyone realized and when Krile's flat out refused but tried to research anyway things go wrong and we have to mount a rescue and we meet those willing to help or Sharlayan being saved for 7.0 and instead we get some of them coming to us, Yoshi said we'd be surprised where Alisaie got her outfit, perhaps it's the twins parents who defect and bring with them the info we need, setting up us returning with them to Sharlayan in 7.0 to get to the bottom of what's happening there.
Who knows, at the end of the day it could be the second city hub and work fine, I actually had little problems with Stormblood and enjoyed it a lot, but I could see how thin they had to spread things and how one side ended up feeling favoured, and that was over the whole expansion 4.0-55 vs 6.0.